I'm going to assume the people that think Magic and Bird are in a different tier than Kobe Bryant didn't see Magic and Bird play or maybe they watched Kobe play with their hands over their eyes.
So should Kobe be ranked in the top 10 or not?
- Thread starter ade
- Start date
Ben.
Heisenbrook
I mean for me he is easily and this might be crazy for some to see but why is Magic > Kobe when Kobe's got him beat in so many ways like longevity, peak/prime, accolades, and competition.
What hurts Kobe's case for top 5 is efficiency and lack of accolades. I don't see how anyone cannot have him in the top 10 though.
You can't use positions to justify why he's in the top 10. Reaching like that makes him look like y'all are reaching to place him there when it's unnecessary. He's in my Top 10 and is really in most 10s basketball heads 50 and under. But having him out and in the 11-14 spots isn't that wild.
nobody outside of a pocket of old white men still hold Colorado against Kobe. Nobody talks about Colorado. We've moved on.
No it doesn't
nobody outside of a pocket of old white men still hold Colorado against Kobe. Nobody talks about Colorado. We've moved on.
I want someone to list 10 players that had a better career than Kobe.
murksiderock
Superstar
You can make the argument both ways. I slightly favor Bird but don't think it's a big deal and I could make the argument the other way, too. Here's what I'd say for Bird, though:
•slightly higher peak than Kobe, whether you're talking GOAT year ('86 Bird vs '06 Kobe) or 5-year peaks
•Bird was the best player on all three of his championship runs; Kobe was the best player 2/5 of his championships; Bird didn't get to stack championships with the Shaq of his day (woulda been Kareem or Moses) carrying the load early to titles
•Bird was a Day 1 phenom wrecking shyt from the start
•skillset to skillset, Bird was a much more dynamic offensive player overall, a better shooter, and you could easily argue he was a more dangerous scorer
•that run of three straight MVP's is some legend shyt and it just ain't the MVP's because a few guys have matched Bird's production 1983-86 but didn't win three straight MVPs. Kobe isn't one of them, no consecutive three year run he was on matches Bird's in this stretch
It ain't a big gap at all because I can turn this argument in Kobe's favor pretty easily, Bird definitely ain't in some whole separate tier from Kobe, but I think the aggregate of Bird's work gives him the slight edge. Even if you disagree, I find it incredulous that nikkas don't even "see" how Bird has an argument...
How many people have you seen or heard saying Bill Russell was the greatest player ever to them? The GOAT argument was only about titles to fit a certain angle, it was never pure and objectively about titles because 99% of basketball heads don't say Russell is the greatest, and if it was objectively about titles, there could be no debate because it could never be argued that anybody is even close to him in titles...
So the ring count was always smoke and mirrors and rightfully so, championships have to be contextualized because they all aren't won the same. Funny thing is, before Jordan Mystique ring count didn't determine GOATness because plenty of old heads swore by Wilt (2), Oscar (1), or Kareem (6). Jordan Propaganda made the last quarter century a ring dikk-measuring contest, and thankfully I think as an entire new generation of basketball heads come to adulthood and didn't see Mike and weren't influenced by him, it's getting back to how it was before then. Rings do matter. They just aren't the end-all, be-all, and for most of NBA history outside of the quarter century of unrelenting Jordan Mystique, they never were the end-all be-all...
You can make a case for Kobe as Top 5, it just isn't a strong one. Part of his argument as Top 5 would be the 5 rings. But more than five guys have had higher peaks than Kobe, dominated the game to a higher degree, are more decorated, won more as the best player on good teams, etc. Those are easy arguments for why he shouldn't make Top 5...
Why should a team accomplishment matter when ranking individual players? The best I've ever seen Kobe play was in 03, 06 and 07. You know how many rings he has to show for it? Zero. Why? Because its a team accomplishment. He was surrounded by old washed up players in 03 and utter trash in 06 and 07. Why should players be judged by the teammates that they have? We should rank players on their impact, skillset and dominance they had over their peers. This isn't tennis where you can beat players one on one.
BlueHeffner
Veteran
Hes Top-5
I have him 5th but go back and forth if I should rank him above Magic
1- MJ
2-Bron
3- Kareem
4-Magic/Kobe
5-Kobe/Magic
Hes above Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, and Russell to me
I have him 5th but go back and forth if I should rank him above Magic
1- MJ
2-Bron
3- Kareem
4-Magic/Kobe
5-Kobe/Magic
Hes above Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, and Russell to me
Bird was more impactful as far as team success and more dominant in his era than Kobe was
Bird was pretty much what we had with Dirk Nowitzki... but if you made him a couple inches shorter, better off the dribble & around the rim, better rebounder, elite passing, and a higher basketball IQ
Kobe has the accolades and notoriety to argue him over Bird. But in all reality, when Bird was healthy and at his peak he was regarded as the preeminent player of the 80’s decade
Kobe has to share that claim with 2 other guys in the 2000’s.
BlueHeffner
Veteran
Nah
Field Marshall Bradley
Veteran
White folks...... I'm a Magic stan... and he is an all time great no doubt.... but white politics won't rank Kobe over him and Bird.... when it's absolutely blatantly clear that Kobe was more skilled than both...
Field Marshall Bradley
Veteran
Not really..... Bird had to fuss and cuss to get D.J. and that's when the Celtics legacy got new burn.... tell me this..... what skill does Bird have that is>>> Kobe's
I don’t think y’all realize the impact Bird had on his team
Do you know what Boston was doing the year before Bird came on the team and how shyt just flipped?
This is before Parish, McHale, Dennis Johnson even arrived on the team
HacksawJimThuggin
All Star
He should be ranked in the 7-10 range depending on where you feel he fits in with the other people in that same range (Shaq, Wilt, Duncan, etc)