LolHes Top-5
I have him 5th but go back and forth if I should rank him above Magic
1- MJ
2-Bron
3- Kareem
4-Magic/Kobe
5-Kobe/Magic
Hes above Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, and Russell to me
So should Kobe be ranked in the top 10 or not?
- Thread starter ade
- Start date
waltthizzney
All Star
Kobe is the second greatest ever after Mike
if you actually ball you know this, it’s called the eye test
y’all calling Duncan and Shaq better
Who would win 5 Kobe’s vs 5 Duncan?
duncan couldn’t even bring the ball over half court
if you actually ball you know this, it’s called the eye test
y’all calling Duncan and Shaq better
Who would win 5 Kobe’s vs 5 Duncan?
duncan couldn’t even bring the ball over half court
BlueHeffner
Veteran
murksiderock
Superstar
The only player on Kob level is MJ
Dominating in stats is not impressive...Kob played off the ball a ton & didn't look to accumulate stats
Teams feared him...look how they defended him...esp at the end of games
Dominating off stats isn't impressive, yet you're in here beating your chest about how many times Kobe scored 50 and 60 points. Irony much?
All great players look to accumulate statistical relevance, you guys make this argument to the contrary and its dumb as hell...
But yes, it isn't dominating the statline that makes a player's dominance stand out. Kobe at his most dominant is one of the most dominant players ever, but he wasn't MJ-level dominant and there were more guys than MJ who were more dominant than Kobe...
There was a measure of fear (respect) all players had for the truly transcendent players, Kobe isn't the only guy this applied to...
This is widely acknowledged too, like we've heard basketball shows speak on it and seen articles written on it. We all know Kobe was a great defender at peak and really good for a long time. He definitely didn't deserve 9 1st Teams or 12 All-D's total though, and most people acknowledge it. It's funny how guys will downplay the significance of MVPs and FMVPs as media awards because Kobe isn't at the top there, but he's at the top of All-Defensive Team lists for perimeter guys and nikkas don't think there was any media bias with that lol...
He was a good-to-great defender for a long time. He wasn't the greatest superstar wing defender ever though, which is what you'd believe if you just counted his defensive accolades...
Having the most moves and counters doesn’t make you the best player. Kyrie has more counters and moves than Lebron but he’s nowhere near as good.
And Duncan had counters, moves, and fronts for days.
Controversy
Superstar
It's about skill level...when you hoop at the highest level, you need supreme skill to be great
Anything any of the top 10 players could do, Kob could do
And if a guy was the best player in a given decade, most skilled, most clutch, and could literally do everything on a basketball court (post up, drive, pull up, catch & shoot, defend, split doubles, pass, etc...), we wouldn't be having a conversation if he's top 10.
Posting pretty stat lines doesn't make you great...having your opponents fear you, gameplan to stop you and still playing at a supreme level makes you great
If defensive awards were given on reputation then LeBron would have alot more than he has.
You don't get NBA all defense based on rep, it's one of the few awards in the NBA that is almost purely merit based. Kobe was the best two way player in the league for a decade.
You don't get NBA all defense based on rep, it's one of the few awards in the NBA that is almost purely merit based. Kobe was the best two way player in the league for a decade.
Controversy
Superstar
Scoring and defending are the 2 central functions of basketball....are you serious?
Kobe wasn't out there trying to get triple dubs every night...he did whatever was needed to win
Nikkas have no context
He scored 81 when teams were barely cracking 90 a night
That's like scoring 95 in today's era
That's not chasing stats...nikka took himself out the game after scoring 62 in 3 qtrs
You add good def to that...nice handles, countless moves, being a threat all over the court...you have pure dominance
BigE214
Future GOAT
Yeah, every team he went to were instance contenders in his prime no matter who he played withSo Lebron is tier 2.........
He wasn’t as dominant as Shaq was either but his longevity should give him the edge. Even though Shaq himself had great longevity. 14 Years as an elite player himself. So maybe he is behind Shaq. But he has one more championship and is consensus #2 at his position so maybe that’s enough to put him over Shaq too
So when do regular season accomplishments count? Lebron has 4 MVPS and dominated an entire conference for almost 8 years straight.
Elite vision, GOAT-tier slashing and finishing ability, a one-man wrecking crew, etc.
Is that not dominance or is it?
filial_piety
Banned
I have him at No.3....after MJ and Kareem but before Lebron/Bird 
murksiderock
Superstar
Bruh, ALL of the transcendent players---->aka the legit Top 10 candidates, were supremely skilled for their time...
Being able to anything on a basketball court from a skill perspective just means you're talented, it is NOT quantifiable to greatness on it's own. By your accounts Vince Carter and Pete Maravich and a bunch of other guys should be in your Top 10 because they could do whatever basketball skill you asked or drill you ran them through. This is such a hollow argument...
Kobe is great because he maintained an elite level of play for a long time; at his best he was the most dominant player on the floor; he could take over at any moment; and he funneled his talent into championship drive. He was multifaceted and his scoring hot streaks were legendary. Him being able to do any basketball move isn't why he was a great basketball player...
Every single Top 10 guy broke the opponent's gameplan for stopping them more often than not...
Nah...again Kobe was a great defender at his best and above average for a pretty good stretch, but its widely recognized he got a few of those All-D's on reputation...
Gotdamn, I'm not talking about Kobe chasing stats, I'm talking about your claim that stats dont matter but you keep bringing up stats to support your argument for Kobe. So, are you championing statlines or not?
He wasn’t as dominant as Shaq was either but his longevity should give him the edge. Even though Shaq himself had great longevity. 14 Years as an elite player himself. So maybe he is behind Shaq. But he has one more championship and is consensus #2 at his position so maybe that’s enough to put him over Shaq too
The Shaq/Kobe thing is something I've gone back and forth on many times. Kobe's longevity at elite level was slightly longer than Shaq's, but it's hard to figure out how much weight to give that when Shaq clearly peaked higher...
They played together for 8 years, for 6 of those 8 years and for each one of their championships together, Shaq was the better player...
But Kobe went on a run without Shaq that Shaq never went on without him, and that's significant to me. The second option Kobe won with, was lesser than any second option Shaq went to The Finals with (Penny, Kobe, Wade). That means something and you can form an argument off that to say Shaq was only a championship contender with an elite wingman. Which is not the best look for Shaq's legacy, because we've seen Hakeem and Duncan lead Finals runs without some Top flight wing next to them...
Kobe is the most popular player of his generation, which almost isn't fair to Shaq because initially he was extremely popular, too. Neither have the strongest postseason resume compared to other GOATs----->alot of Shaq's most dominant work came against severely inferior opposition, and he got either schooled or played to a draw by guys like Duncan and Dream on more than one occasion. That isn't the best look for a guy who in real time NBA media 20 years ago were saying was "the most dominant player ever"...
Alot of Kobe's most dominant work is in the regular season, in earlier rounds of the postseason, or when he was with Shaq when he wasnt carrying the burden and expectation of #1 option, best player in The League. He has no real iconic Finals moment compared to most of his peers on this level, and his play in that round relative to the guys we compare him too is mostly average...
Obviously there are exceptions to these for both guys, but as an illustration neither one come to mind when you think of the most dangerous performers at the very highest levels of professional basketball. So they kind of wash each other out there...
I've flipped on both many times, I think currently I lean Kobe because the slight edge in longevity and the Comeback Kobe run are too significant. I'll probably change my mind again at some other point but honestly, they will always be linked like Magic and Bird, 30 years from now when cats talk about Kobe and Shaq (and Duncan), you really can't talk about either guy's career without talking about the others...