so if Jesus is "GOD"

[SirReginald]

explain why not

Well, I just don't know how the holy trinity can work. Because if you are suppose to give your life to God.......how can you serve all three is my statement. I do believe he existed as a moral and righteous man though. This comes from a former Christian who is now Agnostic. However, I respect all abrahamic and eastern religions/African religions.

 

[thewarrior05]

Well, I just don't know how the holy trinity can work. Because if you are suppose to give your life to God.......how can you serve all three is my statement. I do believe he existed as a moral and righteous man though. This comes from a former Christian who is now Agnostic. However, I respect all abrahamic and eastern religions/African religions.

I think your thinking to deep Jesus came to give us two commandments love god with all your heart and love others like you love yourself. The holy ghost helps us achive that through prayer, mediation, and loving people. Making Jesus, happy makes god happy, which in turn makes us closer to the holy spirit.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

The question was, why should I believe he "legitimately" and "honestly" came up with the date of December 25th

Because it was ALL based on the Bible.....
​

Africanus followed the Jewish chronology which held that the world was already around 5,500 years old by the first century CE. He used the chrono-geneaologies of the Hebrew Bible as his reference for historical dates up to the Greek era, at which point he switched to the Olympiads.

In addition, he explicitly fixes the birth of Jesus on the basis of his interpretation of the prophecy of the '70 weeks' in Daniel 9.

~Nothaft, 'Dating the Passion: The Life of Jesus and the Emergence of Scientific Chronology', p. 57 (2011)

Now it happens that from the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes (as it is given in Ezra among the Hebrews), which, according to the Greeks, was the 4th year of the 80th Olympiad, to the 16th year of Tiberius Caesar, which was the second year of the 102d Olympiad, there are in all the 475 years already noted, which in the Hebrew system make 490 years, as has been previously stated, that is, 70 weeks, by which period the time of Christ’s advent was measured in the announcement made to Daniel by Gabriel.

~Africanus, 'The Extant Fragments of the Five Books of the Chronography of Julius Africanus', fragment XVIII (from Syncellus, 'Chronicles'), in Roberts,Donaldson & Coxe (eds.), 'The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. VI : Translations of the writings of the Fathers down to A.D. 325', p. 138

You can read ALL his surviving writings, including what was quoted above titled 'Fragment 18:On the Circumstances Connected with Our Saviour's Passion and His Life-Giving Resurrection', here.....

CHURCH FATHERS: Extant Works (Julius Africanus)

This proves paganism had NOTHING to do with it.

Thanks for playing.

Have a nice day.
​

 

[TransJenner]

Well, I just don't know how the holy trinity can work. Because if you are suppose to give your life to God.......how can you serve all three is my statement. I do believe he existed as a moral and righteous man though. This comes from a former Christian who is now Agnostic. However, I respect all abrahamic and eastern religions/African religions.

You also gotta understand the world works in 3s

Liquid ice vapor

Past present future

The Trinity is pretty confusing and god won't send anyone to hell because they don't understand it (I'm still skeptical about it myself)

 

[Everythingg]

Because it was ALL based on the Bible.....​

Thats not what your link said. Heres what it actually said:
​

he explicitly fixes the birth of Jesus on the basis of his interpretation of the prophecy of the '70 weeks' in Daniel 9.

Based on HIS INTERPRETATION of prophecy, is different than you saying BASED ON THE BIBLE.. Dec 25th is based on his INTERPRETATION.

To an objective observer, why wouldnt I question if a gentile in a pagan nation, had ulterior motives when it came to choosing a "birthday" for celebration that was eerily close to former pagan celebrations?

You can read ALL his surviving writings, including what was quoted above titled 'Fragment 18:On the Circumstances Connected with Our Saviour's Passion and His Life-Giving Resurrection', here.....

CHURCH FATHERS: Extant Works (Julius Africanus)

This proves paganism had NOTHING to do with it.

Thanks for playing.

Have a nice day.
​

It doesnt prove anything. But even if it DID prove that his birthday was Dec 25th, it still doesnt answer why christians are trading gifts, decorating trees, and talking about satan err... "santa" every Dec 25th. Nothing biblical about any of these things happening on his "birthday" that is eerily close to the days of former pagan celebrations..

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Thats not what your link said.​

It doesnt prove anything. But even if it DID prove that his birthday was Dec 25th

..........You need to pay attention. The WHOLE thing started with me stating that the date was due to Jesus' CONCEPTION being on March 25th and a tradition that his execution was on the same date: http://www.thecoli.com/posts/22287806/

9 months from March 25 is December 25.

YOUR argument is that it was based on paganism which has been proven false with extensive documentation and FACTS.

Have a nice day.

​

 

[Everythingg]

..........You need to pay attention. The WHOLE thing started with me stating that the date was due to Jesus' CONCEPTION being on March 25th and a tradition that his execution was on the same date: http://www.thecoli.com/posts/22287806/

9 months from March 25 is December 25.

YOUR argument is that it was based on paganism which has been proven false with extensive documentation and FACTS.

Have a nice day.

​

Breh are you just going to repeat yourself?

Okay you say that they came up with December 25th. My next point was that I do not believe that foreigners from pagan nations came up with the date of the birth legitimately. You havent showed how this WASNT the case. All you keep showing me is that foreigners personally interpreted his birth to be on a similar day to the time when pagans had their holidays. Okay? Im saying I dont think its legitimate and you havent shown otherwise. Then when you DO bring something, it says what I think, that his idea of the birth was based on HIS INTERPRETATION. Aint much left to be said...

But when we look up and see christians exchanging gifts, talking about santa, and decorating trees, the question comes, where did these traditions come from? Even if the date was legitimate, the festivities are not. But I know, you want to keep it on the date of Dec 25th, while ignoring the fact that it isnt biblical to CELEBRATE the birth at all, not to mention the same for exchanging of gifts and talking about made up characters named satan... You got it breh...

 

[Dwog]

Family were Jehovah's witnesses growing up,use to try to covert you early, thankfully i started watching a lot of discovery channel and animal planet growing up and started questioning things, like the Noah's ark story which made no sense

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Breh are you just going to repeat yourself?

Until you realize that your criticism is invalid, yup.

There was a 'legitimate' and 'honest' reason for the date of December 25th being chosen.....the Bible + math.

Paganism had NOTHING to do with it and you have provided NO evidence that proves your assertion other than tired rhetoric repeated ad infinitum.

Have a nice day.

​

 

[Everythingg]

Until you realize that your criticism is invalid, yup.

Theres nothing invalid about me saying christmas is a pagan holiday. Thats why you nor anyone else can biblically show ANYONE celebrating ANY birth yearly or showing where they celebrate births YEARLY, while exchanging gifts, decorating trees, and talking about some mystical figure named satan err... "santa". Ergo, paganism. You can say "bible + math" means its true but at the end of the day, even YOUR link said it was HIS INTERPRETATION of biblical prophecy. Its not based on ANYTHING factual but instead, interpretations and theories... Thats everything from the "date" of his conception, to the "date" of birth, to the date of his death being on the same day of his conception. You havent brought anything factual or any evidence that shows these were legitimately found conclusions and not just interpretations...

Paganism had NOTHING to do with it and you have provided NO evidence that proves your assertion other than tired rhetoric repeated ad infinitum.

So biblically speaking, since paganism has nothing to do with christmas, where did the exchanging of gifts, decorating of trees, and talking about mystical characters like santa and ms santa who reward nice children but punish the bad ones come from? Surely not the bible lol

But I get it, you want to focus on the "date" instead of the fact that everything surrounding the date is paganistic even the belief of celebrating a birth YEARLY isnt of the Hebrew belief system. So in the end, nitpicking isnt going to change the overarching point that to celebrate "christmas" no matter what specific day, isnt biblical. And if you're exchanging gifts, decorating trees, and talking to your kids about santa, then you're probably engaging in paganistic behaviors. Do you want to address THIS, or are we still going to go around and around again about YOU thinking that foreigners from pagan societies who didnt believe like HEBREWS DID came to the date (that was awfully close to former pagan celebrations in date)legitimately while I believe otherwise? Because Im not sure where else this convo can go beyond that if you do not wish to address the actual festivities on this "date" you feel they came to honestly on a search for truth
​

 

[Everythingg]

Family were Jehovah's witnesses growing up,use to try to covert you early, thankfully i started watching a lot of discovery channel and animal planet growing up and started questioning things, like the Noah's ark story which made no sense

Throw out the baby with the bath water because you were taught wrong brehs

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Theres nothing invalid about me saying christmas is a pagan holiday.​

Except for the simple fact that the actual evidence invalidates what you said.
​

So biblically speaking, since paganism has nothing to do with christmas

Talk about things that have NOTHING to do with my argument, brehs.
​

But I get it, you want to focus on the "date" instead of the fact that everything surrounding the date is paganistic

No, YOU wanted to focus on the date and argued that it came about due to paganism. You have been refuted by history and evidence.

You are now resorting to ad hoc rationalizations while arguing against a straw-man......

Have a nice day.

​

 

[Everythingg]

Except for the simple fact that the actual evidence invalidates what you said.
​

No it doesnt because I've repeatedly asked you where does the celebration of birthdays YEARLY, the exchanging of gifts and the myth of some "entity" that watches over children and rewards them with gifts if they're good come from? If I say "Christmas is a pagan holiday" Im not simply speaking about WHEN it occurs, but also WHAT HAPPENS on the day. You have no answer for it because thats all you want to focus on. Even when I say "okay so lets say the date was found honestly" thats STILL all you want to focus on

​

Talk about things that have NOTHING to do with my argument, brehs.
​

My point in all this has been that the totality of the holiday "christmas" (that means date/festivities done on the date) is paganism. Not just date. You came in, and forced the discussion to be about and only about the date when that wasnt my argument. Why am I supposed to follow you down your tangled road of a discussion when I was on something else when you responded to me? The convo must be over breh because I already said that even if we go with the date being legitimately found, the festivities werent.. You dont want to discuss that part so, whats left? I dont believe foreigners from pagan nations are to be blindly trusted when it comes to HEBREW scriptures. You feel differently, so I'll leave it at that... Truth aint for everyone

​

No, YOU wanted to focus on the date and argued that it came about due to paganism. You have been refuted by history and evidence.

You are now resorting to ad hoc rationalizations while arguing against a straw-man......

Have a nice day.

​

Nope. The very first post you quoted of mine mentioned more than the date being the reason christmas is a pagan holiday. But only YOU chose to focus on the date and date alone. Now when I bring up where the festivities of gift giving, decorating trees, and talking about some entity named 'santa" comes from, you start ducking showing that YOU only want to focus on the date and nothing else. No harm no foul, but theres honestly no need to go further passed this point


Oh and your evidence was based on ONE MAN's interpretation (per your link) which was based on another man's (or mens) tradition that the birth was at a certain time... This is hardly what I call "evidence"