So I guess Mitt Romney really shoulda won

[Serious]

400K is by no means a median to measure the middle class either.

So let's put 400K into perspective; the average household income is roughly ~$50K (adjusted for inflation) and roughly half of the famous 1% make between $340K-$500K.

Just read through this thread. It's not even worth discussing anymore, if cats don't want to acknowledge that the middle class is comprised of families yielding between roughly, (40k - 400k).

Yeah I know the inequality sucks, but 400k isn't rich, may enjoy "some" luxuries but not rich.

Lower middle class = 40-70k (entry level, average recent college graduate)
Middle Class = 75k-120k (mid career salary, few years of experience, ceiling pay)
Upper Middle CLass = 150-400k(lawyers, doctors,contractors, engineers,upper level management, 88m3)

I'll be generous:
Rich = 800k+ (CEO's, entrepreneurs )


Like I mentioned earlier, people should be more fixated on individuals earning 2 billion a year, instead of a few hundred thousand.

Half the 1% make 500k
Where's the link for that....

Sh*t then my peeps are in the top 5%, I refuse to believe that....

 

[KillSpray]

Let me guess, the "right" way is the GOP way? Hack n slash through social programs, eliminate taxes for white male business owners and quadruple the size of the military

You "its the other side's fault" idiots kill me

good job assuming that whole argument and having it with yourself. saves me time dealing with you. unfortunately, your guess is wrong.

smarten up breh, the deficit is climbing by the second.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

400K is rich bruh

If you live within your means its fine

The problem I have with hiking taxes on anyone based on income is effective tax rates (the $$$$ people pay in taxes per dollar they earn) is exponentially proportional to income

Meaning the avg family w/a $500K household income has a federal income tax rate that's 10x that of a family w/a $50K household income. In other words, you make 10x the income, you pay 100x the taxes

And people are suggesting we make that discrepancy even larger to cover the spread, while a growing segment of the population pays zero

Even if you factor in payroll tax, 1%ers still pay way higher tax rates (2-3x). So thats a road we don't want to go down discussion wise.

 

[Hood Critic]

Just read through this thread. It's not even worth discussing anymore, if cats don't want to acknowledge that the middle class is comprised of families yielding between roughly, (40k - 400k).

Yeah I know the inequality sucks, but 400k isn't rich, may enjoy "some" luxuries but not rich.

Lower middle class = 40-70k (entry level, average recent college graduate)
Middle Class = 75k-120k (mid career salary, few years of experience, ceiling pay)
Upper Middle CLass = 150-400k(lawyers, doctors,contractors, engineers,upper level management, 88m3)

I'll be generous:
Rich = 800k+ (CEO's, entrepreneurs )


Like I mentioned earlier, people should be more fixated on individuals earning 2 billion a year, instead of a few hundred thousand.

Half the 1% make 500k
Where's the link for that....

Sh*t then my peeps are in the top 5%, I refuse to believe that....

1. You can't quote a single post where I said 400K is rich.

2. If 40K is considered lower middle class, what is 25K-40K considered since the poverty level is considered 24K or less for a family of 4 and 12K or less for a single person?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

good job assuming that whole argument and having it with yourself. saves me time dealing with you. unfortunately, your guess is wrong.

smarten up breh, the deficit is climbing by the second.

Neither side has been fiscally responsible, and yet you only seem to have a problem with "liberals"

 

[KillSpray]

Neither side has been fiscally responsible, and yet you only seem to have a problem with "liberals"

nah man, I was reading this thread which is clearly occupied by mostly left leaning folks expressing their disgust that Obama isn't left enough, hence the title of the thread, and I was reacting to what I see overwhelmingly in this thread... liberals. My whole original post was critical of taking sides blindly, might want to reread it breh.

 

[TRUEST]

They know Obama will cave again and give them more of what they want. O is the worst negotiator ever.

i was thinking that too. like this is embarrassing.

 

[Broke Wave]

Median household income is $50K; can you post a link to this "threshold"?

You don't think a household making $50K- ~3x the household poverty threshold- can afford to pay any federal income taxes???



Where did I say we need to lower top rates????

So just because they're 2-3 times above the poverty threshold, they should start paying federal income tax

That doesn't make any sense economically to me. You aren't even going to get that much money from them in any case so I believe this is some kind of bizarre social engineering attempt, as you always pushing this tired meme of "personal responsibility" and "spending habits" and it just comes accross as paternalistic bullshyt. You are acting as if Americans ever had "good" spending habits, and even so, as if these "good" habits with regards to saving are even positive for the economy.

As far as a threshold let me explain this again. 47% of Americans... DO...NOT.. make enough money to pay federal income taxes at the lowest rate without being covered by the very BASIC deductions and exemptions... like you know... having children and being poor? Here's an idea for tax rates... how about the ancient tax rates of the prehistoric age of 1993.

 

[Serious]

1. You can't quote a single post where I said 400K is rich.

2. If 40K is considered lower middle class, what is 25K-40K considered since the poverty level is considered 24K or less for a family of 4 and 12K or less for a single person?

Damn you're right....

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/families/2010/F03AR_2010.xls


Can't imagine a family living of anything less than 100k tbh...

Which really isn't sh*t in LA...

 

[MMS]

where everyone gets what they deserve? What does everyone deserve aside from freedom? Because most everything else you can "give" a person usually does more to restrict his freedom than enhance it. Some of you nikkas worry me

there are a large amount of people who feel the wealthy received their wealth through dishonest means and the large majority of it was unearned

and truthfully, ownership and breaking through a certain threshold allows some to abuse others

but thats a different story for another day :cheff:

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

So just because they're 2-3 times above the poverty threshold, they should start paying federal income tax

Ummm... yes? They are well above the legal definition of poverty, why wouldn't they be obligated to pay taxes? How many times above the poverty threshold do you think it's "fair" to "suggest" people pay taxes???

I am not even suggesting big fukkign taxes on them, just the prescribed rates w/less extreme deductions

That doesn't make any sense economically to me. You aren't even going to get that much money from them in any case so I believe this is some kind of bizarre social engineering attempt, as you always pushing this tired meme of "personal responsibility" and "spending habits" and it just comes accross as paternalistic bullshyt. You are acting as if Americans ever had "good" spending habits, and even so, as if these "good" habits with regards to saving are even positive for the economy.

Americans did have better spending habits, our savings rate is a measure of that

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/PSAVERT.txt

Americans were saving 10% of their income, now we are in the high 3s

And that doesn't take into effect our debt load

Better household balance sheets = less money wasted on shyt like credit card interest and more into current investment and consumption, as well as higher consumer + economic confidence

And as far as what money we are missing out on, FICA for bottom 50% was around 6% in the 80s. Now its about 1%. Thats about $50B. Mortgage interest deduction is $80B. Child tax deduction is another couple billion. That shyt adds up doggie :biggaplease:

As far as a threshold let me explain this again. 47% of Americans... DO...NOT.. make enough money to pay federal income taxes at the lowest rate without being covered by the very BASIC deductions and exemptions... like you know... having children and being poor? Here's an idea for tax rates... how about the ancient tax rates of the prehistoric age of 1993.

O u wanna go back to 1993? Woudl that mean we would also have to dump the child tax deduction, which was created in 1998 Do you realize effective tax rates for the folks you claim can't afford to pay 1 penny more in taxes would increase by up to 800%? Would that also include scaling back spending to have the surplus we did under Clinton's tenure?????

Lol @ using newly invented tax deductions as the metric of poverty. The govt giving people money for having kids doesn't mean they couldn't afford to have them without them.

 

[Broke Wave]

Ummm... yes? They are well above the legal definition of poverty, why wouldn't they be obligated to pay taxes? How many times above the poverty threshold do you think it's "fair" to "suggest" people pay taxes???

I am not even suggesting big fukkign taxes on them, just the prescribed rates w/less extreme deductions


Americans did have better spending habits, our savings rate is a measure of that

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/PSAVERT.txt

Americans were saving 10% of their income, now we are in the high 3s

And that doesn't take into effect our debt load

Better household balance sheets = less money wasted on shyt like credit card interest and more into current investment and consumption, as well as higher consumer + economic confidence

And as far as what money we are missing out on, FICA for bottom 50% was around 6% in the 80s. Now its about 1%. Thats about $50B. Mortgage interest deduction is $80B. Child tax deduction is another couple billion. That shyt adds up doggie :biggaplease:


O u wanna go back to 1993? Woudl that mean we would also have to dump the child tax deduction, which was created in 1998 Do you realize effective tax rates for the folks you claim can't afford to pay 1 penny more in taxes would increase by up to 800%? Would that also include scaling back spending to have the surplus we did under Clinton's tenure?????

Lol @ using newly invented tax deductions as the metric of poverty. The govt giving people money for having kids doesn't mean they couldn't afford to have them without them.

This is almost incoherent. I said use the RATES of 1993. The economic reality of 1993 was better than the economic reality of today. The Deficit situation was better then as well... and part of this recovery in 1993 was due to the higher tax rates. If we went to 1993 and kept many of the deductions, which is EXACTLY what I'm saying, so save the '800%' argument, that would be a more rational and equitable code.

You talk about your savings rates as if they show ANY correlation or pattern to your argument.

A quick LOOK at the graph shows that the early 1980's had the highest savings rates... during a recession and higher inflation. The late 2000's had the lowest due to the housing bubble. What does this have to do with, not just your argument, but, ANYTHING

 

[No1]

Just read through this thread. It's not even worth discussing anymore, if cats don't want to acknowledge that the middle class is comprised of families yielding between roughly, (40k - 400k).

Yeah I know the inequality sucks, but 400k isn't rich, may enjoy "some" luxuries but not rich.

Lower middle class = 40-70k (entry level, average recent college graduate)
Middle Class = 75k-120k (mid career salary, few years of experience, ceiling pay)
Upper Middle CLass = 150-400k(lawyers, doctors,contractors, engineers,upper level management, 88m3)

I'll be generous:
Rich = 800k+ (CEO's, entrepreneurs )


Like I mentioned earlier, people should be more fixated on individuals earning 2 billion a year, instead of a few hundred thousand.

Bro, I'm just on my cell phone at the beach and popped into this thread and I had to put down my Corona for this. I'm sorry, but this is bad. Most of my friends' families since college and now in law school make a lot of money, I'm talking upper class to millionaire lawyers and shyt (whether they're liberal or conservative). Everyone who meets me just assumes I'm well off by affiliation. So I can say with confidence,

They would laugh in your face for what you just said and how you attempted to divide American society.


The median US income for a household is 50,000 dollars and 67k for dual earners. Your numbers are imaginary and arbitrary. There is not an economist or researcher walking around with any clout that puts the outer bounds of middle class anywhere far past 150k. Obviously like @NYC_Rebel and @Rekka_Pryde showed people who make more than that are by no means "wealthy", they are certainly comfortable and they have the luxury of being able to complain about their problems. Yes, those problems themselves are a luxury. The bottom line is, there is no one walking around that is going to sit here and seriously debate that people making 400k a year are middle class. You want to talk LA, we'll talk LA. IN BEL-AIR, the median income is only 203,000.

It has nothing to do with who is really causing problems, it's about who can afford to pay more in a progressive tax system. You're going to have to stop conflating the two points. *Goes to splash water on his baby cousin*

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Damn you're right....

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/families/2010/F03AR_2010.xls


Can't imagine a family living of anything less than 100k tbh...

Which really isn't sh*t in LA...

Depends on what your doing. My family is eating good off about 60k. We own a home two cars, and everybody is fed and clothed well.

fukk what y'all talking bout, if we can live comfortably off 60k then 400k is rich.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

450 doesn't go far? are you fukking serious? man... this is a time where you need to shut the fukk up


you are telling me right now


on the fukking internet


that


9 THOUSAND DOLLARS A WEEK

DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH

NINE GRAND A WEEK


9 THOUSAND

EVERY WEEK YOU GET 9 THOUSAND DOLLARS

THAT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH FOR A FAMILY ?


ARE YOU fukkING SERIOUS


THE AVERAGE INCOME IN AMERICA IS 50 GRAND AND FALLING


PLEASE TAKE THIS L

PLEASE

I love this post



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