DrBanneker
Space is the Place
I’ve noticed a lot of people on the form talking about moving out of or leaving the US. I intend to stay put barring any crazy political or economic crises but I have traveled pretty widely and am generally supportive of brehs or brehettes who want to live abroad.
First I want to say I don’t believe Black people shouldn’t travel to a country for fear Black people are not “liked” there. There is a class of people in all countries, including the USA etc., who feel like this and I always encourage people to travel as many places as possible and see the world.
However, there is a difference between casual travel and living somewhere. In the context of living abroad I want to distinguish between living abroad for a temporary stint (school or expat job) or permanent relocation. I am addressing the relocaters since temporary stints again can be relatively liberally chosen since you can always go back home.
When people say they want to leave the US I am not sure all understand the financial commitment and tax implications (your income can still be taxed abroad unless you renounce your citizenship) that go with this but again, for some it is a good decision and the US isn’t the end all of the world.
Here are my comments on where to go if you are thinking of bouncing. I am sure this list will be controversial since everyone has info and opinions but I think it is broadly pretty accurate. This is also from an American perspective
Yes:
Canada – Black people from the US have been fleeing to Canada since the founding of America. Slaves, loyalists, British supporters in the War of 1812, you name it. Canada isn’t perfect but it is close, developed, English speaking, and has large Black communities. You need a skill to get a job though.
Caribbean – Of course, the other big Black region outside of Africa. Some islands can be good bets, especially if you have family, though they vary a lot in safety (crime rates), expense of living, and population.
For the English speaking islands the largest are Jamaica and Trinidad. The former can be problematic due to its high crime rate and hard to navigate without family and good friends. There are also corruption issues from top to bottom in government. Trinidad has similar issues as well but I have heard decent things about it (though these were expats staying in the nice Westmoorings area). However, if you have connects and know the areas there can be good places to live in both places. Those good places typically require money though.
Bahamas is another option but it is probably one of the most expensive islands due to a relatively affluent (compared to the rest of the Caribbean) population. You also can't own land or start a business without 7 figure money if you don't have a local partner. It has had increasing crime issues, especially in Nassau, in the last few years too but still pretty livable in the right areas. Turks and Caicos is similar and very expensive (crime isn’t an issue though) though there ain’t much outside Providenciales or Grand Turk.
Other islands have their own flavor and many like Grenada, Dominica, and Barbados can be relatively safer though they are small in geography and population if that is a big deal.
An AA moving to the Caribbean could generally live comfortable if they have means. Remember Randall Robinson went into self imposed exile in St. Kitts for a bit (though his wife was from there). However, ordinary staples are expensive due to importing everything and land in good areas can be expensive. Also many countries restrict land ownership to citizens so you are limited there.
The biggest problem is the reliance on tourism or raw materials (T&T – petroleum, Grenada – nutmeg, etc.) that limits economic prospects. You could hustle and set up a service or other biz but again, you are probably limited as a foreigner without a local partner.
Mexico – I know dudes are laughing at this one but hear me out. I am not talking about dropping in bad parts of Mexico City or drug war zones. There are actually large American expat settlements in Mexico. In particular, there are a lot of American Blacks in the Puerto Vallarta area. In other words, it is an option to seriously consider and I know AAs who are living there pretty happily. Mexico has racism of course but Mexicans tend to get worse on this after crossing the northern border. Many Mexicans in Mexico are a lot more chill on that (outside of the elites). Of course between Trump and the likely new prez Obrador that all could change for the worse.
Central America
Costa Rica – I know of many Black expats and retirees who have lived here and liked it though they complain it is getting expensive now so many Gringos are arriving. Most live in San Juan though the local born Black population, some of which are big landowners of West Indian descent, lives on the Caribbean coast in Limon province. @Danie84
Panama – Lots of expats likewise in Panama City so the trail is blazed already here. Not sure about the ability to get a job though. Like Costa Rica, many expats are retirees and are living off savings and fixed income and aren’t worried about finding a job.
Africa – I have liked my time in Africa and though there are the typical issues in undeveloped countries I know many an AA that has lived, done business, and been happy in several countries.
South Africa – Again, don’t laugh. I just say this off of Black folks from the US that have made it there in the past (some are chronicled in the documentary Blacks Without Borders). The down side is crime, overwhelming White economic power, and hardcore xenophobia amongst poorer residents. If you make bank you will spend a decent amount of your income on security like people in Brazil. As long as it doesn’t hit social instability though, it can be an option though I am not deep enough in the know to say Cape Town vs. Jo’burg, vs. Durban, etc. @Chief
Ghana – a popular choice with Blacks since the 1960s, it has a relatively large and old AA expat community that even has its own organization. I also know several Black families that moved there, raised kids (sent them to the best private schools that were still comparatively cheap) and were happy. 90% of expats are in Accra with a scattering in Kumasi, Sekondi, and Takoradi. Crime happens but it isn’t as huge a deal as a Nigeria or South Africa. You can live comfortably with wealth and not be overly paranoid like other places.
Senegal – similar environment to Ghana but you need to speak French. They had a rough patch when the former president didn’t want to go but it is another option to check out.
Botswana/Namibia – Can’t say much about living in these places but they are English speaking and relatively good countries. Everyone pretty much lives in the capital regions (Botswana ain’t crap outside Gabarone especially) but you could probably find work with a skill or a business.
Maybe:
Europe - I like Europe, I really do and there is a sizable Black population in many countries. But I put them in the Maybe category based on the current trajectory and future prospects. Europe is doing anemic economically and this combined with immigration is leading to a strong lurch to the right in politics even in relatively prosperous countries like Germany. I know a lot of people live in Germany happily (mostly ex-military) and being an American Black makes you the “good Black” in the eyes of most Europeans. However, I would not recommend this as a bolt hole if you are looking to escape the problems of the USA. Free health care and a less stressful climate are about all you will get and given demographics it is unsure how long even that will last. EU work visas are pretty hard to get too unless you have special, in-demand skills.
For short term stays as a student or expat I 100% recommend Europe but long term I am really iffy on it. That includes the UK who is becoming just as police state like and messed up politically as the US.
Down Under (Australia, NZ) – The one continent besides Antarctica I haven’t hit up yet. I hear some people like it but I don’t know enough to recommend it or not. Free and developed countries but their economies rely on commodities going to China and since China is slowing I think Oz and NZ will see some slower growth in the years ahead. Unless Asia goes to crap in a war or something and the money flees there. There is bigotry but not so many Blacks so Aboriginals/Maori, Lebanese, and other Asians get the brunt of it I think.
NZ is the preferred destination for a bunch of “escape multicultural America” right wing White people too though so I am not sure how the climate will change if a bunch of them arrive.
@LozLink @ULCYril
South America
In current South America I think Brazil and Colombia are the better bets and they are vastly different to live in than to visit/party in.
Brazil is one of my favorite countries but I would only live there if I had a sweet salary or some wealth. It is expensive and Portuguese can take time to learn as well. Also, though American Blacks get treated somewhat better there are deep racial fissures in the society and job market. You hardly find any Blacks in good paying parts of the economy. But there are plenty of Black folk so you can likely find a niche somewhere. Crime is really bad though and getting worse so security is a constant issue. Many middle class Brazilians in the big cities live behind walls or in gated communities. Some small towns are better but even these are having problems I hear since the economy tanked. If the right wing candidate wins in the next election it could go even worse. @Dip @Afrodroid
Colombia has vastly improved since the cartel days and is perhaps worth a shot if you speak Spanish. Most Black people are in Cali and those surrounding areas I hear though obviously they are everywhere. If you have a skill in IT or engineering you could probably find a good job but I am not sure how the labor market works for foreigners. @Malta @Smashius Clay
Africa
Nigeria – I know most people would say ‘no’ given the corruption and crime but if you have family or good friends that can help you navigate and integrate into the middle or upper classes, it could feasibly be done. Not the kind of place to go without knowing anybody or having any money though.
Kenya and Tanzania – I really don’t know E. Africa that well so I would say these are options but I can’t recommend for or against. Some people like Nairobi but the nice areas can be expensive. It has a good IT sector relatively so there is probably good opportunity for the six certs type brehs. Tanzania is much poorer than Kenya and I don't really know how good an option it is.
Rwanda - growing country, no English and not French speaking. If it keeps going strong past the Kagame era I think it would be a good place to look at.
Asia
Philippines – Probably the only place I would recommend Black folks trying to relocate to in Asia. I have known some that made it work. @TommyKnocks is trying it out now. It is the one country that has a history of being receptive to Black folks and being relatively used to us. Very poor though and the elites tend to often be White-leaning or Chinese so middle class Filipinos are probably the most receptive group.
No:
East Asia and Southeast Asia – I have lived and traveled in East Asia and know it well, particularly China. If you are a student or have a good expat sponsorship, I would definitely recommend heading over there. If you are just looking to relocate, not as much.
From navigating the job market to living as a foreigner East Asia is damn hard for a long time resident if you are on your own and don’t know the language. This is even true in Japan, Taiwan, and English speaking Singapore. If you want to hussle and make it, go ahead. As far as foreigners go you are below the White people though so know your opportunities will be structured accordingly unless you have some awesome skills. Not everywhere White folks live in Asia is receptive to Blacks either so don’t think you can just follow White American expats everywhere. If too many Black people start arriving in any country I am sure they will take action to shut us out so don’t expect any large Black community except in Guangzhou, China where there are thousands of Africans.
Also the East Asia growth story has peaked for a bit I think due to a variety of reasons so opportunities will be harder going forward.
@TommyKnocks @LShedged
Subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) – Just about the only thing going for you here is they speak English. Besides that culture, economic opportunities, and color prejudice make this region a no for long term relocation. Again if you have a great opportunity, it changes everything but that is a different situation.
Middle East / North Africa – Even less going for you here than the subcontinent countries; you don’t even have the language benefit. Probably bottom of my list globally for Black folks. Even if you are wealthy, I don’t see the benefit of living in Dubai versus Europe unless you are running from Interpol or you have business in the Middle East and Africa that makes Dubai a good hub. The only developed democracy around is Israel and they are not favoring any non-Jewish immigrants and already had anti-African immigrant riots.
Other South American countries - Either ethnically White (Chile and Argentina) with an unsure racial environment (though a few Blacks could probably get away with living well there) or having their own economic problems. Guyana is probably too poor to have much attraction for US brehs.
This is my short list. Maybe it is wrong as well, but a bit of info for you guys to chew on.
First I want to say I don’t believe Black people shouldn’t travel to a country for fear Black people are not “liked” there. There is a class of people in all countries, including the USA etc., who feel like this and I always encourage people to travel as many places as possible and see the world.
However, there is a difference between casual travel and living somewhere. In the context of living abroad I want to distinguish between living abroad for a temporary stint (school or expat job) or permanent relocation. I am addressing the relocaters since temporary stints again can be relatively liberally chosen since you can always go back home.
When people say they want to leave the US I am not sure all understand the financial commitment and tax implications (your income can still be taxed abroad unless you renounce your citizenship) that go with this but again, for some it is a good decision and the US isn’t the end all of the world.
Here are my comments on where to go if you are thinking of bouncing. I am sure this list will be controversial since everyone has info and opinions but I think it is broadly pretty accurate. This is also from an American perspective
Yes:
Canada – Black people from the US have been fleeing to Canada since the founding of America. Slaves, loyalists, British supporters in the War of 1812, you name it. Canada isn’t perfect but it is close, developed, English speaking, and has large Black communities. You need a skill to get a job though.
Caribbean – Of course, the other big Black region outside of Africa. Some islands can be good bets, especially if you have family, though they vary a lot in safety (crime rates), expense of living, and population.
For the English speaking islands the largest are Jamaica and Trinidad. The former can be problematic due to its high crime rate and hard to navigate without family and good friends. There are also corruption issues from top to bottom in government. Trinidad has similar issues as well but I have heard decent things about it (though these were expats staying in the nice Westmoorings area). However, if you have connects and know the areas there can be good places to live in both places. Those good places typically require money though.
Bahamas is another option but it is probably one of the most expensive islands due to a relatively affluent (compared to the rest of the Caribbean) population. You also can't own land or start a business without 7 figure money if you don't have a local partner. It has had increasing crime issues, especially in Nassau, in the last few years too but still pretty livable in the right areas. Turks and Caicos is similar and very expensive (crime isn’t an issue though) though there ain’t much outside Providenciales or Grand Turk.
Other islands have their own flavor and many like Grenada, Dominica, and Barbados can be relatively safer though they are small in geography and population if that is a big deal.
An AA moving to the Caribbean could generally live comfortable if they have means. Remember Randall Robinson went into self imposed exile in St. Kitts for a bit (though his wife was from there). However, ordinary staples are expensive due to importing everything and land in good areas can be expensive. Also many countries restrict land ownership to citizens so you are limited there.
The biggest problem is the reliance on tourism or raw materials (T&T – petroleum, Grenada – nutmeg, etc.) that limits economic prospects. You could hustle and set up a service or other biz but again, you are probably limited as a foreigner without a local partner.
Mexico – I know dudes are laughing at this one but hear me out. I am not talking about dropping in bad parts of Mexico City or drug war zones. There are actually large American expat settlements in Mexico. In particular, there are a lot of American Blacks in the Puerto Vallarta area. In other words, it is an option to seriously consider and I know AAs who are living there pretty happily. Mexico has racism of course but Mexicans tend to get worse on this after crossing the northern border. Many Mexicans in Mexico are a lot more chill on that (outside of the elites). Of course between Trump and the likely new prez Obrador that all could change for the worse.
Central America
Costa Rica – I know of many Black expats and retirees who have lived here and liked it though they complain it is getting expensive now so many Gringos are arriving. Most live in San Juan though the local born Black population, some of which are big landowners of West Indian descent, lives on the Caribbean coast in Limon province. @Danie84
Panama – Lots of expats likewise in Panama City so the trail is blazed already here. Not sure about the ability to get a job though. Like Costa Rica, many expats are retirees and are living off savings and fixed income and aren’t worried about finding a job.
Africa – I have liked my time in Africa and though there are the typical issues in undeveloped countries I know many an AA that has lived, done business, and been happy in several countries.
South Africa – Again, don’t laugh. I just say this off of Black folks from the US that have made it there in the past (some are chronicled in the documentary Blacks Without Borders). The down side is crime, overwhelming White economic power, and hardcore xenophobia amongst poorer residents. If you make bank you will spend a decent amount of your income on security like people in Brazil. As long as it doesn’t hit social instability though, it can be an option though I am not deep enough in the know to say Cape Town vs. Jo’burg, vs. Durban, etc. @Chief
Ghana – a popular choice with Blacks since the 1960s, it has a relatively large and old AA expat community that even has its own organization. I also know several Black families that moved there, raised kids (sent them to the best private schools that were still comparatively cheap) and were happy. 90% of expats are in Accra with a scattering in Kumasi, Sekondi, and Takoradi. Crime happens but it isn’t as huge a deal as a Nigeria or South Africa. You can live comfortably with wealth and not be overly paranoid like other places.
Senegal – similar environment to Ghana but you need to speak French. They had a rough patch when the former president didn’t want to go but it is another option to check out.
Botswana/Namibia – Can’t say much about living in these places but they are English speaking and relatively good countries. Everyone pretty much lives in the capital regions (Botswana ain’t crap outside Gabarone especially) but you could probably find work with a skill or a business.
Maybe:
Europe - I like Europe, I really do and there is a sizable Black population in many countries. But I put them in the Maybe category based on the current trajectory and future prospects. Europe is doing anemic economically and this combined with immigration is leading to a strong lurch to the right in politics even in relatively prosperous countries like Germany. I know a lot of people live in Germany happily (mostly ex-military) and being an American Black makes you the “good Black” in the eyes of most Europeans. However, I would not recommend this as a bolt hole if you are looking to escape the problems of the USA. Free health care and a less stressful climate are about all you will get and given demographics it is unsure how long even that will last. EU work visas are pretty hard to get too unless you have special, in-demand skills.
For short term stays as a student or expat I 100% recommend Europe but long term I am really iffy on it. That includes the UK who is becoming just as police state like and messed up politically as the US.
Down Under (Australia, NZ) – The one continent besides Antarctica I haven’t hit up yet. I hear some people like it but I don’t know enough to recommend it or not. Free and developed countries but their economies rely on commodities going to China and since China is slowing I think Oz and NZ will see some slower growth in the years ahead. Unless Asia goes to crap in a war or something and the money flees there. There is bigotry but not so many Blacks so Aboriginals/Maori, Lebanese, and other Asians get the brunt of it I think.
NZ is the preferred destination for a bunch of “escape multicultural America” right wing White people too though so I am not sure how the climate will change if a bunch of them arrive.
@LozLink @ULCYril
South America
In current South America I think Brazil and Colombia are the better bets and they are vastly different to live in than to visit/party in.
Brazil is one of my favorite countries but I would only live there if I had a sweet salary or some wealth. It is expensive and Portuguese can take time to learn as well. Also, though American Blacks get treated somewhat better there are deep racial fissures in the society and job market. You hardly find any Blacks in good paying parts of the economy. But there are plenty of Black folk so you can likely find a niche somewhere. Crime is really bad though and getting worse so security is a constant issue. Many middle class Brazilians in the big cities live behind walls or in gated communities. Some small towns are better but even these are having problems I hear since the economy tanked. If the right wing candidate wins in the next election it could go even worse. @Dip @Afrodroid
Colombia has vastly improved since the cartel days and is perhaps worth a shot if you speak Spanish. Most Black people are in Cali and those surrounding areas I hear though obviously they are everywhere. If you have a skill in IT or engineering you could probably find a good job but I am not sure how the labor market works for foreigners. @Malta @Smashius Clay
Africa
Nigeria – I know most people would say ‘no’ given the corruption and crime but if you have family or good friends that can help you navigate and integrate into the middle or upper classes, it could feasibly be done. Not the kind of place to go without knowing anybody or having any money though.
Kenya and Tanzania – I really don’t know E. Africa that well so I would say these are options but I can’t recommend for or against. Some people like Nairobi but the nice areas can be expensive. It has a good IT sector relatively so there is probably good opportunity for the six certs type brehs. Tanzania is much poorer than Kenya and I don't really know how good an option it is.
Rwanda - growing country, no English and not French speaking. If it keeps going strong past the Kagame era I think it would be a good place to look at.
Asia
Philippines – Probably the only place I would recommend Black folks trying to relocate to in Asia. I have known some that made it work. @TommyKnocks is trying it out now. It is the one country that has a history of being receptive to Black folks and being relatively used to us. Very poor though and the elites tend to often be White-leaning or Chinese so middle class Filipinos are probably the most receptive group.
No:
East Asia and Southeast Asia – I have lived and traveled in East Asia and know it well, particularly China. If you are a student or have a good expat sponsorship, I would definitely recommend heading over there. If you are just looking to relocate, not as much.
From navigating the job market to living as a foreigner East Asia is damn hard for a long time resident if you are on your own and don’t know the language. This is even true in Japan, Taiwan, and English speaking Singapore. If you want to hussle and make it, go ahead. As far as foreigners go you are below the White people though so know your opportunities will be structured accordingly unless you have some awesome skills. Not everywhere White folks live in Asia is receptive to Blacks either so don’t think you can just follow White American expats everywhere. If too many Black people start arriving in any country I am sure they will take action to shut us out so don’t expect any large Black community except in Guangzhou, China where there are thousands of Africans.
Also the East Asia growth story has peaked for a bit I think due to a variety of reasons so opportunities will be harder going forward.
@TommyKnocks @LShedged
Subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) – Just about the only thing going for you here is they speak English. Besides that culture, economic opportunities, and color prejudice make this region a no for long term relocation. Again if you have a great opportunity, it changes everything but that is a different situation.
Middle East / North Africa – Even less going for you here than the subcontinent countries; you don’t even have the language benefit. Probably bottom of my list globally for Black folks. Even if you are wealthy, I don’t see the benefit of living in Dubai versus Europe unless you are running from Interpol or you have business in the Middle East and Africa that makes Dubai a good hub. The only developed democracy around is Israel and they are not favoring any non-Jewish immigrants and already had anti-African immigrant riots.
Other South American countries - Either ethnically White (Chile and Argentina) with an unsure racial environment (though a few Blacks could probably get away with living well there) or having their own economic problems. Guyana is probably too poor to have much attraction for US brehs.
This is my short list. Maybe it is wrong as well, but a bit of info for you guys to chew on.
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. I really need to connect with expats in my age range because everyone I've spoken to thus far have been older and retirees. So they all advised me to wait until I retire so that I can have a stable flow of income. It's not bad advice but I want to break away sooner.
Damn man, nobody is safe. Nah, I'm down South born AA. Honestly, I can tell you the White folks you meet overseas, especially in Asia, are pissed to see Black folks. They wouldn't encourage us to go abroad at all. As much as they hate on us here they'd rather us stay home in the gutter so the rest of the world can be their playground. They feel entitled to the money and p*ssy and let all their racist tendencies go unfiltered since they think they can get away with it. I say we don't cede the world to them.
