So Em and 50 Cent met each at the Lyricist Lounge in 1997 but they dont remember....

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

DAMN! I'm pretty sure that was the De La and KRS show I was talking about. I think it was at Electric Factory. We hit about 1/2 the shows on the tour. They were all dope! This was like '98 though.

But yeah, 50 was cool with Punch and Words because they were all under Trackmasters for a minute. So Tone was running around the city promoting all three, but Words went off to college and I remember he didn't really seem focused on music while he was away. But at that time, we were all expecting a project to drop under TM that just never materialized.

Yeah, it was definitely the Electric Factory. I'm drawing a blank on some of the other names cuz I could be confusing some of the acts with the Spitkicker Tour, which was around the same time. But I remember Biz Markie (R.I.P.) being the DJ for that tour and I don't think the LL tour had just one main DJ.

So many shows and underground events I went to during that era, it's all a blur now, lol.

R.I.P. Bobbito's Footworks store in Philly. I copped many vinyl gems and saw and participated in some dope shows and battles at that spot. This thread is bringing back some dope memories for me. Peace to Grand Agent, Chief Kamachi, Last Emperor, Lost Children of Babylon, Subconscious, Name, Jedi Mind Tricks, Maylay Sparks, Rasheed and Ill Advised, Scienz of Life, Minds of Sol......alot of dope ass emcees from a lost era in Philly/NJ hip-hop I had the pleasure of seeing and cyphering with.

 

[tuckgod]

I've seen this video a million times.

Very dope! I think Tone didn't really have the patience to focus on them the way he wanted to, while also working with more mainstream acts like Mariah Carey and R. Kelly at the time. TM basically left 50 and Nature to die on Columbia.

I never knew Punch and Words was under Trackmasters

Why them nikkas ain’t never give Words the It Was Written treatment??

He was supposed to have his jersey in the rafters.

 

[tuckgod]

The Black Eyed Peas got a raw deal with hip hop fans. I bought their first 2 albums and no one paid attention to them. They were real hip hop heads trying to do hip hop music and no one paid them any attention. As soon as they add Fergie to the group and sell millions, hip hop heads started dissing them. The same hip hop fans that ignored BEP as they were catering to THEM. So after Fergie left and years later being millionaire, BEP returned to their hip hop roots with an album. The fans stopped dissing them and then ignored the album. So hip hop fans may be the worst fans on earth of any genre. As long as you aren't making money and struggling while doing music for them that they aren't buying, the won't say anything bad about you. As soon as you stop catering to them............

That’s why you just stay true and say fukk them record sales if you’re really in it for the arts sake

The fans will come around eventually if your art is great, just ask UGK, Gangstarr, Common, etc

 

[Juggalo Fred]

I've seen this video a million times.

Very dope! I think Tone didn't really have the patience to focus on them the way he wanted to, while also working with more mainstream acts like Mariah Carey and R. Kelly at the time. TM basically left 50 and Nature to die on Columbia.

Is 50 still cool with TM now?

 

[Awesome Wells]

At all

This is another great example. LOL!!

Words was just wild better than Punch. Always was. But during that time, they were so close, you wouldn't get one without the other.

Years before this when things were getting started, we would all be in LES. And dudes would be rhyming, and you could see that Words had something that Punch just didn't. Both dope, but at very different levels.

 

[tuckgod]

This is another great example. LOL!!

Words was just wild better than Punch. Always was. But during that time, they were so close, you wouldn't get one without the other.

Years before this when things were getting just started, we would all be in LES. And dudes would be rhyming, and you could see that Words had something that Punch just didn't. Both dope, but at very different levels.

Yeah I never thought he was wack but when you rap with the caliber of emcees he surrounded himself with your shortcomings stand out

Always fukked with him though

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

The Black Eyed Peas got a raw deal with hip hop fans. I bought their first 2 albums and no one paid attention to them. They were real hip hop heads trying to do hip hop music and no one paid them any attention. As soon as they add Fergie to the group and sell millions, hip hop heads started dissing them. The same hip hop fans that ignored BEP as they were catering to THEM. So after Fergie left and years later being millionaire, BEP returned to their hip hop roots with an album. The fans stopped dissing them and then ignored the album. So hip hop fans may be the worst fans on earth of any genre. As long as you aren't making money and struggling while doing music for them that they aren't buying, the won't say anything bad about you. As soon as you stop catering to them............

While there is SOME truth to this, I think you're absolving them of their own accountability. They were an undergroundhip-hop group, and while they had a nice lil sound and vibe to them, they were never gonna blow and do huge numbers making that type of music. But they willingly embraced that in their act and messaging. So you can't make the entire essence of your sound revolve around "not selling out" and being about the culture, and then do a complete 180 and embrace everything you claimed to reject and despise and expect to not get called out on it.

My man's swore they were the second coming of Tribe when Joints and Jams dropped. He stayed bumping their shyt. I was a fan, but he was a super fan.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I never knew Punch and Words was under Trackmasters

Why them nikkas ain’t never give Words the It Was Written treatment??

He was supposed to have his jersey in the rafters.

Tone was managing them or something, at the time.

So he was the one taking them up to all the underground college radio shows, to promote and getting the name out. For the project they did in like '99-'00, Curt Gowdy did pretty much all the beats. He was one of the producers they had under TM back in the 90's. His name was Rich. He had a lot of dope beats.

He did some stuff on The Firm album too, and some joints for Nore, Nature and Fat Joe.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

While there is SOME truth to this, I think you're absolving them of their own accountability. They were an undergroundhip-hop group, and while they had a nice lil sound and vibe to them, they were never gonna blow and do huge numbers making that type of music. But they willingly embraced that in their act and messaging. So you can't make the entire essence of your sound revolve around "not selling out" and being about the culture, and then do a complete 180 and embrace everything you claimed to reject and despise and expect to not get called out on it.

My man's swore they were the second coming of Tribe when Joints and Jams dropped. He stayed bumping their shyt. I was a fan, but he was a super fan.

I don't think they were the second coming of Tribe hahaha, but yes, they deserve the criticism for their music becoming shytty in the years following. I just don't think they were "selling out". They weren't making their race look bad. Weren't promoting violence or sexualizing women. They were just making shytty mainstream pop music. I was a fan too, but I just didn't like their music with Fergie for some reason. But I liked Fergie's solo pop tunes.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Yeah, it was definitely the Electric Factory. I'm drawing a blank on some of the other names cuz I could be confusing some of the acts with the Spitkicker Tour, which was around the same time. But I remember Biz Markie (R.I.P.) being the DJ for that tour and I don't think the LL tour had just one main DJ.

So many shows and underground events I went to during that era, it's all a blur now, lol.

R.I.P. Bobbito's Footworks store in Philly. I copped many vinyl gems and saw and participated in some dope shows and battles at that spot. This thread is bringing back some dope memories for me. Peace to Grand Agent, Chief Kamachi, Last Emperor, Lost Children of Babylon, Subconscious, Name, Jedi Mind Tricks, Maylay Sparks, Rasheed and Ill Advised, Scienz of Life, Minds of Sol......alot of dope ass emcees from a lost era in Philly/NJ hip-hop I had the pleasure of seeing and cyphering with.

It's the same for me, bro. LOL!! There were a lot of shows back then. Some I can remember, and others not so much.

Bob's Footwork in NYC was my spot! I used to go there damn near every weekend to cop the Ken Sport Originals sample tapes, lol. He had them in there for like $10. I still have them. Haha! Bob had a lot of cool sh*t in there. All kinds of merch that MC's had made and tapes you couldn't find anywhere else. But like you said, this was kinda like the end of the last really great era of the underground. Mad unsung legends were active at the time.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

That was my problem with this Eminem shyt. Had nothing to do with Eminem because as I've always told these fake ass hip hop fans, "I have bought more albums of white rappers and did shows with more white rappers than you know exist". It's not Eminem's fault, it's the media. They claimed that lyricism shyt didn't sell and when Eminem came out (basically sounding like Chino Xl with his subject matter of dissing celebs), everyone lost their mind when just 1 year prior, they were dissing lyricists. shyt was crazy. How do you think I felt 25 years ago reading mainstream rap magazines shyt on lyricist for being "too lyrical", but giving Eminem praise for lyrics?

This 100%.

The story I always tell people is this.

Freshman year of college, I remember trying to play a bunch of cats there on campus the Slim Shady EP. I had the cassette since early '98 (maybe even '97) and was trying to put everybody I knew up on this crazy dope ass white boy that had been killing it on The Wakeup Show and different 12" features.

NOBODY was fukkin' with this shyt, lol. The looks and laughs I got trying to play that sh*t for people

Fast Forward a semester or two....and you couldn't walk anywhere on campus without hearing the Slim Shady LP coming from out of somebody's dorm room. He was a media created superstar. Granted, he had the skills to back up anybody doubting his ability, but so did a boatload of other talented MCs that didn't break through the industry politics.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

This 100%.

The story I always tell people is this.

Freshman year of college, I remember trying to play a bunch of cats there on campus the Slim Shady EP. I had the cassette since early '98 (maybe even '97) and was trying to put everybody I knew up on this crazy dope ass white boy that had been killing it on The Wakeup Show and different 12" features.

NOBODY was fukkin' with this shyt, lol. The looks and laughs I got trying to play that sh*t for people

Fast Forward a semester or two....and you couldn't walk anywhere on campus without hearing the Slim Shady LP coming from out of somebody's dorm room. He was a media created superstar. Granted, he had the skills to back up anybody doubting his ability, but so did a boatload of other talented MCs that didn't break through the industry politics.

I remember reading his lyrics in the Source mag early 1998. It's the one with the Lox and mase on the cover. Reading his lyrics, I knew he was dope as a mf. It's like people have to be told what to listen to for it to be accepted.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

It's the same for me, bro. LOL!! There were a lot of shows back then. Some I can remember, and others not so much.

Bob's Footwork in NYC was my spot! I used to go there damn near every weekend to cop the Ken Sport Originals sample tapes, lol. He had them in there for like $10. I still have them. Haha! Bob had a lot of cool sh*t in there. All kinds of merch that MC's had made and tapes you couldn't find anywhere else. But like you said, this was kinda like the end of the last really great era of the underground. Mad unsung legends were active at the time.

I still have one of the Footworks plastic shopping bags as a little collectors item. Rich Medina was the DJ/owner/caretaker of the Philly spot. He's another name that ended up becoming a prominent international name in the culture and music scene back then.

Between Footworks, Cue Records, Funk-O-Mart (old school Philly headz know about Funk-O-Mart, lol), The Beat Society beat battles, and a bunch of other hole in the wall spots around that time, I came across so many mix tapes, small time magazines, VHS videos and documentaries, etc that I'm still trying to find to this day. Glad I was blessed to experience those times. I was too young to really know and appreciate '88, but this was my equivalent to that.

 

[NormanConnors]

yall talk about Eminem's lyricism, but Wordsworth(and many others) match him. Wordsworth is probably the greatest lyricist of all time that no one knows. He flows so effortlessly making every bar count. I can't find the Words and Em cypher on youtube. Then there is that great breakdown of syllables over the Pete Rock "give it to yall" Instrumental. You can't find any of this shyt on youtube for some reason but I have copies of all this on cd. That's crazy. Also can't forget him weekly on MTV's Lyricist Lounge. Words is a lyrical beast. Promotion is everything. I don't care how ill of a rapper you are or how great your albums are, if a machine will not get behind you, it's all worthless. Let's not forget, Illmatic sold nothing in 1994 and had Steve Stoute not restructured Nas' career and had singing on his hooks by Lauryn Hill, Jojo, R Kelly, and even Nas himself, while also putting him in that pink suit, his career would have been done.

Words is Dope but as far as what you're saying in regards to machine, promotion and etc, then Elzhi > Wordsmith

 

[NormanConnors]

We don’t like him because he’s white and couldn’t rap that much better than the other emcees at Lyricist Lounge who couldn’t get a record deal because they were told nikkas was into Cash Money and Master P now so now we have a few generations of actual black kids that think he’s one of the greatest rappers of all time and it makes me want to commit that when I don’t have my Zoloft.

He is one of the goats. And Zoloft is bad for you