So Em and 50 Cent met each at the Lyricist Lounge in 1997 but they dont remember....

[threattonature]

yall talk about Eminem's lyricism, but Wordsworth(and many others) match him. Wordsworth is probably the greatest lyricist of all time that no one knows. He flows so effortlessly making every bar count. I can't find the Words and Em cypher on youtube. Then there is that great breakdown of syllables over the Pete Rock "give it to yall" Instrumental. You can't find any of this shyt on youtube for some reason but I have copies of all this on cd. That's crazy. Also can't forget him weekly on MTV's Lyricist Lounge. Words is a lyrical beast. Promotion is everything. I don't care how ill of a rapper you are or how great your albums are, if a machine will not get behind you, it's all worthless. Let's not forget, Illmatic sold nothing in 1994 and had Steve Stoute not restructured Nas' career and had singing on his hooks by Lauryn Hill, Jojo, R Kelly, and even Nas himself, while also putting him in that pink suit, his career would have been done.

Wordsworth was a beast but lacked mic presence to me. I wanted to love that Mirror Music album but it just didn’t do it for me. He was definitely one of the most creative pens in history though.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

I performed in the Philly stop of the Lyricist Lounge Tour, but I'm pretty sure that day in Philly was either in '99 or even 2000. Mos Def was the headliner. I remember Master Fuol, Ali Vegas, Nature, Wordsworth, and a few other cats I'm drawing a blank on performing that night.


50 used to be pretty cool with Punch and Words. It's crazy how many people from that era and time in the indie/underground hip-hop scene ended up becoming megastars in the industry.

You want to know something else that's crazy, One of my favorite albums from 1995 was The Natural. At the time, Mic Geronimo was on Rap City daily as Jay Z, DMX and Ja Rule were unknown to most people. Just 3 years later, DMX, and Jay would be multi platinum stars and the year following Ja Rule was platinum while Mic Geronimo's rise was over. It's crazy how that worked out.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

Wordsworth's main problem is that he didn't put out a lot of music though. Unfortunately, he played the freestyle circuits, but not enough albums. He just wasn't visible enough. Even after Lyricists Lounge TV show, he should've put out album after album to capitalize off of that. He dropped something like 5 years later, at least that I know of. He should've matched Thirstin in output, and if not, kill them with features.

yeah that was a problem. But he got paid for ghostwriting. He wrote the Joe Pesci track

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

We don’t like him because he’s white and couldn’t rap that much better than the other emcees at Lyricist Lounge who couldn’t get a record deal because they were told nikkas was into Cash Money and Master P now so now we have a few generations of actual black kids that think he’s one of the greatest rappers of all time and it makes me want to commit that when I don’t have my Zoloft.

That was my problem with this Eminem shyt. Had nothing to do with Eminem because as I've always told these fake ass hip hop fans, "I have bought more albums of white rappers and did shows with more white rappers than you know exist". It's not Eminem's fault, it's the media. They claimed that lyricism shyt didn't sell and when Eminem came out (basically sounding like Chino Xl with his subject matter of dissing celebs), everyone lost their mind when just 1 year prior, they were dissing lyricists. shyt was crazy. How do you think I felt 25 years ago reading mainstream rap magazines shyt on lyricist for being "too lyrical", but giving Eminem praise for lyrics?

 

[Awesome Wells]

yall talk about Eminem's lyricism, but Wordsworth(and many others) match him. Wordsworth is probably the greatest lyricist of all time that no one knows. He flows so effortlessly making every bar count. I can't find the Words and Em cypher on youtube.

Words is my guy, but he wasn't on Em's level.

Our girlfriends were best friends back then, before he went off to school upstate. So I was with dude all the time. Heard damn near every rap. He was definitely one of the best underground MC's during a nice stretch in the mid-90's, and we thought he would make it later. But Em's level of lyricism was something else. The sh*t he was doing was not just clever and funny, but structurally, very few dudes in that circuit could do what that dude was doing with rhymes.

I still have some of Words demoes from back then, and he was nasty on the mic. But not a match for Em. The closest to that level back then, out of the underground dudes people slept-on, was Last Emperor. He was leagues better than damn near everyone on that tour, and fell short because of label issues.

 

[Juggalo Fred]

Slim Anus once did a concert with Big Pun and Hussein Fatal at the lyricist lounge. Wonder if that was a different night.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

Words is my guy, but he wasn't on Em's level.

Our girlfriends were best friends back then, before he went off to school upstate. So I was with dude all the time. Heard damn near every rap. He was definitely one of the best underground MC's during a nice stretch in the mid-90's, and we thought he would make it later. But Em's level of lyricism was something else. The sh*t he was doing was not just clever and funny, but structurally, very few dudes in that circuit could do what that dude was doing with rhymes.

I still have some of Words demoes from back then, and he was nasty on the mic. But not a match for Em. The closest to that level back then, out of the underground dudes people slept-on, was Last Emperor. He was leagues better than damn near everyone on that tour, and fell short because of label issues.

bullshyt. Complete and utter. Punch, Words, Eminem, were all on the same level. Eminem could do nothing with words they couldn't do. He just sold more records. They also could do anything with words that Eminem couldn't do. They were all equals. And I say this about Kane, G Rap and Rakim. All are 10 out of 10 lyricists.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I performed in the Philly stop of the Lyricist Lounge Tour, but I'm pretty sure that day in Philly was either in '99 or even 2000. Mos Def was the headliner. I remember Master Fuol, Ali Vegas, Nature, Wordsworth, and a few other cats I'm drawing a blank on performing that night.


50 used to be pretty cool with Punch and Words. It's crazy how many people from that era and time in the indie/underground hip-hop scene ended up becoming megastars in the industry.

DAMN! I'm pretty sure that was the De La and KRS show I was talking about. I think it was at Electric Factory. We hit about 1/2 the shows on the tour. They were all dope! This was like '98 though.

But yeah, 50 was cool with Punch and Words because they were all under Trackmasters for a minute. So Tone was running around the city promoting all three, but Words went off to college and I remember he didn't really seem focused on music while he was away. But at that time, we were all expecting a project to drop under TM that just never materialized.

 

[tuckgod]

That was my problem with this Eminem shyt. Had nothing to do with Eminem because as I've always told these fake ass hip hop fans, "I have bought more albums of white rappers and did shows with more white rappers than you know exist". It's not Eminem's fault, it's the media. They claimed that lyricism shyt didn't sell and when Eminem came out (basically sounding like Chino Xl with his subject matter of dissing celebs), everyone lost their mind when just 1 year prior, they were dissing lyricists. shyt was crazy. How do you think I felt 25 years ago reading mainstream rap magazines shyt on lyricist for being "too lyrical", but giving Eminem praise for lyrics?

Exactly!

Believe me I feel your pain

I’m not an emcee but I’m a creator and I value hip hop like it’s the air I breath ESPECIALLY back then

That time period taught me a lot about how the world really works and it came at a good time as I had just graduated high school and was coming into manhood

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

You want to know something else that's crazy, One of my favorite albums from 1995 was The Natural. At the time, Mic Geronimo was on Rap City daily as Jay Z, DMX and Ja Rule were unknown to most people. Just 3 years later, DMX, and Jay would be multi platinum stars and the year following Ja Rule was platinum while Mic Geronimo's rise was over. It's crazy how that worked out.

Yeah, I say the same thing about Mic G, especially considering that label his first album was on. So I see your Mic Geronimo and raise you the biggest sell outs (literally and figuratively) in hip-hop history......



If you told anybody on the planet that less than 10 years after making this dope li'l underground gem that they'd be the biggest pop stars on Earth, they would have thrown you into an insane asylum.

 

[Awesome Wells]

bullshyt. Complete and utter. Punch, Words, Eminem, were all on the same level. Eminem could do nothing with words they couldn't do. He just sold more records. They also could do anything with words that Eminem couldn't do. They were all equals. And I say this about Kane, G Rap and Rakim. All are 10 out of 10 lyricists.

These were all my friends in real life, so I don’t want to be harsh. But Punch was NEVER on Words' level. We all knew that. And no one around back then would ever front like he was, lol. That's #1. Secondly, Words was dope at written freestyles. That was his thing. Being in cyphers and saying really clever sh*t that could make us laugh and being witty. He had trouble making actual songs. Always did. That's where the issue was.

This is not a Kane, G Rap and Rakim thing, at all.

 

[tuckgod]

DAMN! I'm pretty sure that was the De La and KRS show I was talking about. I think it was at Electric Factory. We hit about 1/2 the shows on the tour. They were all dope! This was like '98 though.

But yeah, 50 was cool with Punch and Words because they were all under Trackmasters for a minute. So Tone was running around the city promoting all three, but Words went off to college and I remember he didn't really seem focused on music while he was away. But at that time, we were all expecting a project to drop under TM that just never materialized.

 

[tuckgod]

These were all my friends in real life, so I don’t want to be harsh. But Punch was NEVER on Words' level. We all knew that. And no one around back then would ever front like he was, lol. That's #1. Secondly, Words was dope at written freestyles. That was his thing. Being in cyphers and saying really clever sh*t that could make us laugh and being witty. He had trouble making actual songs. Always did. That's where the issue was.

This is not a Kane, G Rap and Rakim thing, at all.

At all

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

Yeah, I say the same thing about Mic G, especially considering that label his first album was on. So I see your Mic Geronimo and raise you the biggest sell outs (literally and figuratively) in hip-hop history......



If you told anybody on the planet that less than 10 years after making this dope li'l underground gem that they'd be the biggest pop stars on Earth, they would have thrown you into an insane asylum.

The Black Eyed Peas got a raw deal with hip hop fans. I bought their first 2 albums and no one paid attention to them. They were real hip hop heads trying to do hip hop music and no one paid them any attention. As soon as they add Fergie to the group and sell millions, hip hop heads started dissing them. The same hip hop fans that ignored BEP as they were catering to THEM. So after Fergie left and years later being millionaire, BEP returned to their hip hop roots with an album. The fans stopped dissing them and then ignored the album. So hip hop fans may be the worst fans on earth of any genre. As long as you aren't making money and struggling while doing music for them that they aren't buying, the won't say anything bad about you. As soon as you stop catering to them............

 

[Awesome Wells]

I've seen this video a million times.

Very dope! I think Tone didn't really have the patience to focus on them the way he wanted to, while also working with more mainstream acts like Mariah Carey and R. Kelly at the time. TM basically left 50 and Nature to die on Columbia.