So basically Kamalas campaign lied to the country

Cave Savage

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This isn't a welcomed take on this website. You can point out how the Democratic party has shifted hard-left and is no longer the same party from 20 years ago, even 10. But people will fight you tooth and nail because tribalism requires them to defend The Party even if it is clearly not the same. Look how many people are clamoring for us to fight Russia when 20 years ago you would have been damn near banned from the party for being pro-war.

A large chunk of the Dems voted yes to a boots on the ground war in Iraq and Afghanistan (both of these wars continued into the Obama presidency).

Voting to send aid to a country being invaded by a fascist dictatorship wouldn't be out of the question.
 

Black Panther

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Are you playing dumb? A campaign needs to maintain public optimism, even when internal polling shows challenges. They are called internal polls for a reason. You want to do everything to avoid demoralizing your base. And that's not tantamount to lying. There are better avenues for criticism of her campaign.

@Currently Black Trash mad as fück :mjlol:
 

Strapped

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Wait, so you're telling me that she wouldn't answer any questions directly to let people know exactly what her policies were?! You don't fukking say :ohhh:

For 100th time, I told yall nikkas this for months, and all yall said was "cac" "maga" "c00n", etc. and now her own damn team is telling yall she wouldn't directly answer questions about anything. It's like yall are dumb, deaf, and blind smmfh
Negroes are lost in the sauce dawg ,they care more about bs than substantive measures
 

Strapped

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Nop, Trump is in office because most Americans are functional retards.
Not necessarily idiots , let's say that whites make up 67 percent of the population & most of them voted . Most or all Hispanics choose white on the census . I doubt if most Asians voted for Cheeto after the China initiative to get them fired , locked up or deported . Some negroes were definitely bamboozled by maga & some were just tired of being beaten down by an oppresive system to gaf . I say Cheeto goes after that build back better bill or gets rid of the ACA to rename it so that Obama gets credit for nothing .
 
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I disagree with some of this. Abolishing capitalism was definitely a stance of the hard-leftists in the party. It was hidden behind ideas like the tax on unrealized gains that are just Marxist to the core. Wealth distribution has been in the discourse of the Democrats for years now. When Occupy Wallstreet occurred in 2008, this was one of the moments we started to see a shift in the Democratic party.

Likewise, the entire climate change agenda adopted by the party is rhetoric that while there is a legitimate discussion underlying it, has become a rallying cry that was not present 20 years ago. Civil Rights protections are not radical indeed, but I also don't think they were a bigger issue than Abortion which is a more established leftist debating point.

So, while the Democrat do not embody all of the characteristics of the hard-left as you describe it, they display enough of them with such a magnitude that it cannot be mistaken for anything else imo. A subset of the party are loud activists that spout ideas that unfortunately were a reason that cost Kamala Harris this election.



I don't agree. The United States has no direct public stake in their relationship. Ukraine is not an ally nor a NATO country. Similar to the Iraq War, neocons and warmongers are spinning up any justification they can to constantly involve the country in a war. In 2014 after the coup and after Ukraine was named one of the most corrupt countries in the world by our State Department, American citizens could not bother to care about the country. Ukraine became a polarized topic the moment Trump was Pro-Putin. As I've stated many times, the US and Russia are more like rivals and not enemy countries. This should have never been a political hill to die over, as most of the country does not support it.



Fair. I refer to it as tribalism in short-hand because I do not want to spend a lot of time discussing the nuances of a greater issue that I'm assuming you're familiar with. But that isn't an outright dismissal of the arguments. I refer to it that way because what evolved from arguments of intersectionality a decade ago is what this has become. You are either for all of the issues of the party, or you are a Republican/anti-Democrat. You cannot agree with just some of the political objectives. There are times people DO argue the misrepresentation of issues that Republicans/conservatives do. But rarely is that the case because discussions get sidetracked by ad-hominem attacks before the real fundamentals can be spoken about.
I see where you're coming from. And while I don't fully agree with your analysis, I think it's worth looking at the nuances behind these issues to clarify the differences in our perspectives.

Wrt the Democratic Party's ideology, I think there's a distinction to be made between activist rhetoric and the party's actual policy platform. You're right that movements like Occupy Wall Street brought progressive ideas like wealth redistribution into public discourse, and that it may have influenced some segments of the party. However, it's also important to note that these ideas have not become the central planks of the party's platform. For example, while a tax on unrealized gains has been discussed by some progressives, it's far from being mainstream Democratic policy. The Biden administration has focused instead on more traditional tax reforms, like raising corporate tax rates and closing loopholes. These are policies that reflect a centrist approach.

I also see your point about climate change gaining prominence in the party's priorities. You're right that this wasn't as central 20 years ago, but I would argue that this shift reflects a broader societal and scientific consensus rather than a radical ideological pivot. Addressing climate change is now widely recognized as a global necessity, and many of the policies proposed, such as investing in renewable energy, have bipartisan origins and economic benefits.

On civil rights and abortion, I think both have been longstanding priorities for the Democratic Party rather than newer, competing points of emphasis. Civil rights protections, like addressing systemic racism and ensuring voting access, have always been integral to the party's mission. Similarly, abortion rights have been a cornerstone issue for decades. I don't see these as trade-offs but as complementary parts of the party's broader commitment to social justice.

Wrt Ukraine, I understand your skepticism about US involvement, especially given past conflicts like Iraq. However, I think the situation is different in one key way. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons under the Budapest Memorandum in exchange for security assurances, including from the US. Supporting them now is partly about upholding those commitments. That said, I agree that's it's fair to question the extent and scope of American engagement, as well as the political dynamics surrounding it.

Finally, on your use of "tribalism" to describe the Democratic coalition: while I agree that party politics can sometimes feel rigid, I think this cohesion is necessary to achieve shared goals in a system that often requires unity to pass legislation. However, I don't think disagreement within the party equates to exclusion or outright dismissal of diverse views. Political movements thrive on compromise, even if those processes can be messy.
 
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What exactly are you asking me? You asked a question and then answered it.

I don't agree with equity initiatives because equity is not what the government should be trying to achieve. It is difficult to do so naturally on its own, and near impossible for people with their own biases to come close to successfully pulling off. Even the notion of "fixing systemic inequalities" is disingenuous. Think tanks and governments have spent billions of dollars trying and not one has come close. Possibly because it is a waste of time trying to dictate complex interactions we do not fully understand.

Now as to this specifically:


This is where you will find agreement amongst most people. I do agree we should be aiming for a way to give everyone a "fair shot". However - this is not equity. This is equality of opportunity. Equity is synonymous with equality of outcome. The problem with equitable policies is they ignore the underlying forces that drive outcomes and instead try to fix the pie so everyone has an equal share. Unfortunately, this tends to ignore real social and economic dynamics and results in a disaster for all involved.

As an example, ask the typical person if minimum wage is a good idea. Most would say sure, everyone deserves minimum earning amount. This of course ignores that implementing price floors tends to hurt the people that do not have the ability to earn a wage at or above the price floor. A free market would allow them to underbid other wages and most importantly enter the market. But they can't. Minimum wage isn't addressing the real issue (they do not have an opportunity or skills to get into the market) and instead just tries to put a band-aid on the issue. This is the core problem with "equity" ideas. Instead of trying to fix the pie at a certain preconceived percentage, we should find ways to grow the pie for everyone.
I think your critique oversimplifies both the goals and mechanisms of such policies. Equity isn't about guaranteeing equal outcomes across the board, but about addressing systemic barriers that disproportionately limit opportunities for certain groups. Barriers that a purely free market would exacerbate, rather than resolve.

Sure minimum wage laws may have trade-offs, but they aim to prevent exploitation and set a baseline of dignity in employment. The argument that removing these protections would allow low-skill workers to "underbid" presumes a perfect market where opportunities naturally equalize, which historical and empirical evidence consistently disprove.

Further, systemic inequalities, like those rooted in education, housing, or healthcare disparities aren't resolved simply by growing the economic pie, because structural imbalances persist in how that growth is distributed. Equity policies are attempts to mitigate those imbalances. Is that kind of intervention perfect? No. But rejecting them outright in favor of pure market dynamics run the risks of perpetuating entrenched inequities rather than addressing them.
 

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What exactly are you asking me? You asked a question and then answered it.

I don't agree with equity initiatives because equity is not what the government should be trying to achieve. It is difficult to do so naturally on its own, and near impossible for people with their own biases to come close to successfully pulling off. Even the notion of "fixing systemic inequalities" is disingenuous. Think tanks and governments have spent billions of dollars trying and not one has come close. Possibly because it is a waste of time trying to dictate complex interactions we do not fully understand.

Now as to this specifically:


This is where you will find agreement amongst most people. I do agree we should be aiming for a way to give everyone a "fair shot". However - this is not equity. This is equality of opportunity. Equity is synonymous with equality of outcome. The problem with equitable policies is they ignore the underlying forces that drive outcomes and instead try to fix the pie so everyone has an equal share. Unfortunately, this tends to ignore real social and economic dynamics and results in a disaster for all involved.

As an example, ask the typical person if minimum wage is a good idea. Most would say sure, everyone deserves minimum earning amount. This of course ignores that implementing price floors tends to hurt the people that do not have the ability to earn a wage at or above the price floor. A free market would allow them to underbid other wages and most importantly enter the market. But they can't. Minimum wage isn't addressing the real issue (they do not have an opportunity or skills to get into the market) and instead just tries to put a band-aid on the issue. This is the core problem with "equity" ideas. Instead of trying to fix the pie at a certain preconceived percentage, we should find ways to grow the pie for everyone.
Government was and is a driving force in non equity
 

King Poetic

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voting for Kamala was for one thing only

To change the Supreme Court with alito and Thomas being old

Overall she was/is terrible candidate

I would have voted for Biden dog Major if it was time to change the Supreme Court..

But it’s over now and ill be dead over the next 40 years when those Supreme Court justices time to change out
 

Problematic Pat

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The election has been weeks ago, kamala and her supporters have conceded the election and accepted the verdict of the people yet you this topics always are brought up for distraction and both sides bs. Trump is filling his cabinet with charlatans, con men and grifters with no experience what so ever yet there is no post on that, the man plans to use the department of justice as a weapon to go after his opponents yet no outrage behind that, he is surgically going to dismantle any affirmative action or pro black initiative across all institutions yet not a word on that, stop this phony outrage, the republicans hold all levels of power and the supreme court yet you want to bring up the opponents that have no leverage.
The coping after gaslighting nikkaz who weren't voting for her for 4 years straight :mjlol:
 
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