Shenmue III | PS4/PC | Out Now

Knicksman20

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http://segabits.com/blog/2015/06/18...mue-3-ip-deal-was-between-sega-and-yu-suzuki/

"While Sony announced Shenmue 3 on stage and even admitted that they are involved with some funding for the project, fans are starting to wonder who owns the IP and what Sony had to do with getting the kickstarter going. If Sony’s involved why don’t they just fund the whole thing? According to Playstation President of Worldwide Studios’ Shuhei Yoshida, the deal for the Kickstarter was done by Yu Suzuki and SEGA.
During a interview with Engadget, they asked Yoshida-San the following: ” Why did Sony PlayStation decide to allow that crowdfunding announcement as opposed to funding it?”

“Ah, no, no, no. It’s a very exciting project and there are lots of PlayStation fans asking for it. But it’s a Sega IP and of course Suzuki Yu-san is the creator. So somehow Suzuki-san was able to work out with Sega to allow them to Kickstart the project. And because we liked the project, our third-party relations team struck a deal to help Kickstart the campaign at the E3 conference. That’s great PR.”

Sony has stated that they are willing to help promote the game and have shown that by allowing the Kickstarter to be announced on their stage at E3 in front of millions. Fans have been a bit angry with Sony’s involvement, in my opinion in the end of the day all the money funded by fans and Sony will go into Shenmue 3 to make it a better game, so in the end the consumer wins. No one is forcing anyone to donate to the Kickstarter, you can always wait for the released product. What are your thoughts?"
 

Liquid

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BTW, the thread title is not correct. 2 Million (or even 3 million where its at now) is not full funding for this game.

It will cost about 50 million to make and still needs serious backing. TBH, I would start worrying if its not at about 15 million by the end of the Kickstarter campaign.
 

MeachTheMonster

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BTW, the thread title is not correct. 2 Million (or even 3 million where its at now) is not full funding for this game.

It will cost about 50 million to make and still needs serious backing. TBH, I would start worrying if its not at about 15 million by the end of the Kickstarter campaign.
In a interview today Suzuki said the majority of the money will come from kickstarter.

They defininately need more than what they got so far to make a worthy sequel.
 

MeachTheMonster

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They already are. That's what the entire pre-ordering scam has been this whole time. Pay for a game a year before it even comes out and we'll throw you 2 free DLC costumes and a 30 day trial of xbox live/ps+.

Yup. This kickstarter is impressive but in reality I bet games like Fallout, halo, COD, etc have probably already raised double or even triple the amount in preorders.
 

Liquid

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In a interview today Suzuki said the majority of the money will come from kickstarter.

They defininately need more than what they got so far to make a worthy sequel.
Yeah that's not a good sign if that's the case. Shenmue has always been a niche franchise and I am getting blasted with updates to try to keep momentum going as donations have slowed to a crawl. They are now offering an unlimited number of a jacket for $3,000 which is an absolute absurd amount of money for it.

They will be lucky to get close to 20 Million when its all said and done.
 

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I'm willing to bet the push for a digital only release on consoles means they are looking to make shenmue an episodic release similar to what telltale has done with game of thrones and with the recent resident evil games. A lot of people agree that the story has too much left to finish in just one more game. I'm amped to give lan di the beats, but I'm very skeptical about the execution of this game.
 

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Should probably have spent the last few hours working instead of doing this considering I don't doubt someone else will do a translation of the full thing in short order, but oh well.

- He noticed that fans were getting more and more despondent about the chances of a Shenmue 3 ever coming out, and being willing to settle for just about any format (novel, manga etc.) just to see the conclusion of the story, but he really wanted to make the sequel as a game even if it didn't have all the bells and whistles he'd like to put in it.
- He first learned about Kickstarter about 3 years ago through a fan who'd used it before, although it took a while before he decided that was really the way to go forward. Tried looking for a major company to partner with, but couldn't find one that met his criteria. Eventually, he decided Kickstarter was the best option.
- Sega readily allowed him to make the game, and SCE gave their support too (nothing specific here).
- It'll be out on PS4 and PC. No mention of other platforms, no mention of considering any other platforms.
- 2 million is the bare minimum for the game to exist, and if that was all they got, it would just be focused on the story. The more money it gets, the more of the things he wants to do will be possible.
- He wants to give the fans what they want as much as possible, asking for their opinions during development and incorporating those into the final game. Like if they have two ideas for a character, they might ask backers to vote on which they prefer.
- As far as money goes, he expects the game's investment will primarily come from individual backers, so he wants them all to be happy with the finished product. Doesn't sound like Sony and others are giving them all THAT much.
- The story will take place in Guilin, beginning immediately after 2's end. You'll be able to go around the town(s) in that area, back to the mountains, infiltrate the Chi You Men's Guilin branch, etc.
- Back when he made Shenmue 2, he was determined that Shenmue 3's focus would be making a deeper open world rather than a bigger one. Fewer characters means they can have more to say, they can have more complex AI, etc. The character Ryo will talk to the most in 3 is Shenhua, so he wants to develop her as much as possible, making it so that talking to her lots makes her behaviour towards him change, makes quests involving her proceed differently, etc.
- Not that any of this is to say it won't be an open world game. Stretch goals will determine how much the town(s) can be expanded (presumably this is referring to stretch goals like those we can already see, the 'other towns' in that video aren't addressed here.)
- QTEs were originally designed so that people who weren't very good at battles could still enjoy the game.
- He wants to make 'free battles' (which are likely to have their name changed) less about pressing buttons at the right time and more about making the right decisions.
- He also wants to make them less about practising and inputting commands and more centred around the Technique Scrolls, so obtaining and using those is enough to win battles. These Technique Scrolls will ideally connect a number of different elements in the game together in a natural way.
"Shenmue had a number of minigames, gambling spots etc. that you could spend time playing around in, but I wanted something that would connect all of them somehow. I mean, obviously you can obtain money through part-time jobs, use that in gambling to get more of it and then buy weapons...but not that kind of connection, a closer one. If we can meet a number of our stretch goals and make the open world elements more elaborate, I'm hoping to be able to connect these side elements together, centred around the scrolls.
- He's desperately trying to find some way to include forklifts in the game in a way that will make sense, because Shenmue fans seem to love them.
- He wanted to gather as many of the people who worked on the earlier games as possible because it'd be reassuring to fans. They're planning to publish staff comments from a number of figures working on the game, including the writer Masahiro Yoshimoto.
- He's asked about whether he has an idea in his head about what'll come after Shenmue 3's done (presumably 4, but it doesn't come out and say this). He says he does, but right now he's focused on working on Shenmue 3. Certainly doesn't sound like this game will be 'it' at any rate.
- As the Kickstarter page says, he's hoping the game will be ready to release at the end of 2017.

Pulled this from GAF.
 

Doomsday

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People going to think this is all good until you have multi-million dollar companies trying to do the same thing with games they KNOW they can fund and make a profit on. :francis:

Gamers have to be some of the worst consumers out there when it comes to letting these companies skate by with minimal effort. Want an example? Look no further than DLC. Scust.

That's already happening.

And games don't cost what they used to to make. Making Shenmue today wouldn't cost anywhere near 40 million.
 
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The Mad Titan

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http://www.gamesradar.com/sony-now-...nmue-3-kickstarter-leaves-bad-taste-my-mouth/



No story from this year's E3 has been bigger than Sony's Earth-shaking (or at least Twitter-rattling) three-hit combo announcement of The Last Guardian, the Final Fantasy 7 remake, and Shenmue 3. It was exciting. Hell, it felt impossible. But when all the screaming and crying died down, I found one question fluttering around my head, refusing to leave.

Just why the hell is a mega-corp platform-holder advertising Yu Suzuki's Kickstarter?

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There were options, but none of them sat right with me. Was Sony simply giving the Shenmue creator a massive platform on which to announce his fundraising campaign, in exchange for console exclusivity? It seemed probable, but if Sony knew the PR value of the project, why wasn’t it getting behind it wholesale, with a real publishing deal and real publisher money? And speaking of money, how was the requested two million going to be enough to sequel two previous titles whose combined development cost 24 times that?

Or was Sony planning to use Suzuki’s (inevitably bountiful) Kickstarter money to part-fund the game, putting in the other half of the cash itself? If so, that felt rather cheap, but there was no mention, either on stage or on Shenmue 3's Kickstarter page, that that would be the case. Indeed, Suzuki's team's game was introduced as "very muchtheir project", and the game's video presentation even ended with the director stating that ‘the fate of Shenmue is in your hands now’. That sounded pretty clear. This was an indie project that would legitimately live or die on public donations. But it still felt weird.

Today we discovered the truth. That truth lies somewhere between the above two possibilities, and rather uncomfortably so, for me. Sony is indeed partnering on the development of Shenmue 3, with an undisclosed budget. But it felt the need to take a large chunk of public money before it committed.

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“Sony and PlayStation is definitely a partner in this game,” says Sony’s director of third-party relations, Gio Corsi, “and it’s going to be run through third-party production. We’re going to help Ys Net get the game done, we’re going to be partners on it the whole way, and really excited to see this thing come out in a couple of years”.

It turns out, as Corsi goes on, that Shenmue 3’s Kickstarter was a test to see just how committed players are to the series. Everyone said they wanted it, but did they want it enough to prove that with money as well as forum posts?

“We said ‘the only way this is gonna happen is if the fans speak up. We thought Kickstarter was the perfect place to do this. We set a goal of two million dollars, and if the fans come in and back it, then absolutely we’re going to make this a reality.”

There's little doubt that Sony is helping to pay for Shenmue 3. If a decent chunk of the company's own money wasn't on the line, why would it desire that fan commitment? So working on the basis that Sony is paying, why was it deemed acceptable to run the Kickstarter as it was run, and only reveal this partnership after public money had been accrued via some very large personal donations? I could start throwing around a lot of strong terms here, but – if only because I don’t know exactly how the balance of funding will play out - I won’t. I’ll very carefully draw the line at ‘misleading’, and leave it at that.

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The Kickstarter page makes no mention of external partners at all, let alone one with the power to “make this a reality”. Instead, it implies a staunchly independent, self-sufficient development, discussing the two million dollar request as a complete budget requirement:

“The real challenge now is to deliver a sequel that we will all be satisfied with after 14 years of waiting. After much research and planning, we set the funding goal at this level believing it will make possible a fulfilling Shenmue experience.

“With regards to development of the game, we have an experienced team, deeply connected with the Shenmue franchise. With modern tools, experienced professionals, and the community of Shenmue by our sides, we have set ourselves up for success.”

Here’s where I start having a real problem with the way this has been run. Because however I spin it (and believe me, I’ve spun it like a tumble drier), I keep coming back to the same bottom line. Individual members of the public have paid up to ten thousand dollars of their own money for a game they were led to believe had no other funding options. A game they were led to believe needed that money in order to happen. And that’s not okay.

sony-now-admitting-partnering-shenmue-3-kickstarter-leaves-bad-taste-my-mouth


In a way, yes, Shenmue 3 did need that Kickstarter to succeed, but only because Sony made that the case. It made that the case by making the public pass a test before it offered its own support, a test that it knew would cost the public hundreds and thousands.

Beyond the obvious financial issue, there’s a matter of philosophy here too. Because at its heart, Sony’s ‘build the list’ initiative - its pledge to make community-requested games happen, and the initiative that led to Shenmue 3 happening - is a program inherently tied to the taking of commercial risks. It is a program designed to let gamers voice their wishes for long-wanted, seemingly impossible projects. By definition, those wishes will not be for ‘safe’ games.

No-one is going to request another Killzone or Uncharted, because those games are going to happen. They’re proven, megaton hits, and Sony is going to keep making them until they stop being. By committing to ‘the list’ Sony openly committed to risky projects. That’s an admirable position to take, but it’s admirable in no small part because the responsibility for financial success or failure rests with the company taking it. Not the public. Not for $10k a pop. Not when the invitation of that money is presented unclearly at best, and with an air of the misleading if we’re going to be more critical.

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More infuriating is the fact that there was an obvious, easy, inoffensive way to handle all of this. By limiting donation tiers to a single, flat, $50 rate, Shenmue 3’s Kickstarter could have been turned into an elaborate pre-order system, the same level of player commitment shown without anyone being extravagantly out of pocket, and the backer rewards becoming an extra special pre-order bonus, with added goodwill.

Sony says that it needed a Kickstarter to prove that people are serious about Shenmue 3. Fine. For the sake of argument, I’ll buy that. But this is Shenmue 3. It was always going to be funded, whether endorsed by a platform holder or promoted by a single, kanji tweet from Suzuki. Once word got around, it would have been over-funded in a day regardless. And at a lower cost of entry, even more might have bought in, especially if all parties had been open about what was going on.

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Like I said, I don’t know exactly how much money Sony is stumping up now that we’ve thrown our wallets through its hoop and passed the test. If Shenmue 3 is being made on the cheap, it’s possible that Sony’s contribution might be as small as a like-for-like match. But that still raises the awkward question of how, if the overall budget is going to be so comparatively small, Sony didn’t just commit to covering the whole thing. But the worse, and possibly more likely, option is that the near three million already raised in public funds is a mere token drop of what Shenmue 3 is going to cost, rather than the budget so many donators believed the game needed to exist.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Kickstarter is for developers with no other funding options. Shenmue 3 has had other options ever since Sony first started to think about it (as it transpires, in 2013), and whatever the platform-holder is now going to pay into the project, it can probably afford it somewhat more comfortably than some of the rest of us can our donations.
 

CACarot

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Can I be honest here...


This is really underhanded, Sony is in the gaming business. They know what the fans want, instead of putting there money into something they believe in they do some BS kickstarter to soften the blow.... A 2 million kicker start with a 2 day goal of 2 million...that now has stretch goals...come on man.

Can you imagine if wal mart ask people two donate money to getting more cashiers in Line even though it's clear the people want that... People would be insulted. How you in the business, but asking fans for money to gauge interest....talking about it couldn't happen other wise. Your a million dollar company you dont kickstart games. Kickstarter is for the complete opposite of that...


My big fear now is that everyone is just gonna do this, "hey you want a game... If you prove you want it buy getting X amount of money in such and such time we'll back it".:skip:


The fact that the for a millon more dollars you get DLC added on to the game :pachaha:


I really want Shenmue but I might not support this off GP.

This ^


Because this is what its leading too.

You're a fool if you don't think the CEO's of EA, Activision, etc. didn't look at this and say ":leon: oh word let's see how we can take advantage of these suckers doing something similar:heh:"


Thank you, I'm glad some people understand. N1ggas wan't to act like this is a far fetched idea. This industry will see the profit in this and start doing this for known titles that will sell, so less money on there end. Or they will start to nerf the rewards of what your donations get you. I can see how they would start saying things like for $100 you will get the game pre release date with a a signature on it, and people will go nuts over it not realizing they paid $100 for a $60 video game. Come up shuffle for developers.
 

RiffRaff

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So... youre suggesting... they are gonna start doing kickstarters for Madden, 2k, etc :snoop:

Maybe not in the form of "kickstarters", but you're naive if you don't think they are scheming something at this very moment in the same breadth. The bottom line is the most important thing to these companies at the end of the day and if there is anyway they can raise that number they will explore the option.
 

Kamikaze Revy

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The problem with Shenmue 3 – what can we truly expect from the most wanted sequel in gaming


Now that the dust has settled on the astonishing Sony press conference (where, somehow, the prayers of every Japanese Game fan were answered in spectacular fashion) I find myself thinking long and hard about what was, for me, the most important announcement – Shenmue 3.
Before I start, I should clarify that I am a massive raging Shenmue fanboy. Yes, I wrote this piece about how Shenmue 3 should never get made – but I hope you understand that it was to illustrate my love for the series (if you can call two games a series) and also to highlight some of the issues that would arise should a sequel ever be on the cards.
I’d like to go over those concerns again here in a little more detail, if you’ll indulge me. And I guess the most sensible place to start would be with the kickstarter goal

2.5 Million is a awful lot of money to raise in just 8 hours. Actually, that figure is currently over 3 MIllion. It’s a very impressive kickstarter campaign – but in Game development terms it’s not very much money at all. Bobby Kotick could probably find half of that down the back of his sofa and the other half in his ridiculous haircut.
To put this into perspective, on the lower end of the scale $3 million buys you the development of 5 games like FEZ. On the other end of the scale it would buy you 3% of Skyrim. The original Shenmue cost around $70 Million to make – accounting for inflation, to make a game of that size and ambition now, would cost you around $100, 000, 000.
As I said in my previous piece, one of the things that made Shenmue so loved by fans was that it put ambition before common sense. Sega stretched themselves so hard to make a game so phenomenal it almost brought down an entire company. No one is ever going to do that again.
Lets say, for sake of argument, that Yu Suzuki hits all his stretch goals and a little extra, say $7 Million. Would it be possible to make Shenmue 1 or 2 from scratch – creating all the art assets, sound production, voice work, scripting, programming, testing etc etc for that money? I think the answer to that question is no.

Recently, Sony stated that they would be with Suzuki ‘all the way’ – that their Third Party Production team were going to ‘get the game done’. Kickstarter, it turns out, was just the litmus test.
‘How much do you want Shenmue?’
The answer is ‘a lot’. So much that Shenmue backers not only broke Kickstarter, they broke a Guinness World Record while doing it. Shenmue 3 is officially the fastest Kickstarter, for any project, to reach $1 million. That’s great, that’s really great – but it’s going to take a lot more money to get it over the line in a state that will please fanboys like me.
The question then – and where I have my doubts – is how much are Sony REALLY going to help? Are they going to bankroll it? Are they going to throw 100 Million Dollars at it? I’m not convinced they are. If they don’t, Shenmue will offer a very different proposition to it’s predecessors.
So where does Shenmue go from here? When Shenmue 1 and 2 were made, they were, for me, the pinnacle in open world games. Sure you had games like GTA, Zelda Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask before it – and great games they were too! – but Shenmue was leagues ahead in terms of the richness of their environments, characterisation, story and overall graphical fidelity.
In Shenmue’s absence we’ve seen later GTAs and Elder Scrolls take Shenmue’s place. Skyrim I feel is particularly relevant here because it has further pushed those aspects that made Shenmue so impressive. The ability to scrutinise the game world in detail, down to object level and follow people as they go about their daily business. Elder Scrolls does very well at cementing a sense of place. That it’s a living breathing world – precisely the things that Shenmue worked so hard to achieve over ten years earlier.
In order to impress, in order to show ambition, can Shenmue compete at that same level? I don’t think it can – and so it’s going to have to have a new focus, to level it’s ambitions at a different horizon.
For example, Shenmue 2 began in Hong Kong – for reference sake, this is what current-gen Hong Kong looks like;

This is Sleeping Dogs – or as I like to call it Shenmue 3 : The Adventures of Bad Ryo. The alternative Shenmue 3 timeline where Ryo has gone rogue, left Shenhua back in rural China and taken up Karaoke, street racing and being less frigid around women… but I digress…
Can we expect Shenmue 3 to deliver urban environments of this size? I don’t believe we can – but perhaps it won’t have to? Shenmue 2 ended in rural, mainland China – the same kind of environment indicated in the Shenmue 3 Kickster assets and Sony reveal.
Perhaps this is fortuitous for Shenmue? I’m betting Baisha Village is going to cost an awful lot less money to model that a couple of square miles of Kowloon. Is it safe to assume that maybe Shenmue 3 won’t feature any significant urban areas at all?
More to the point, does it really matter?
I’m sure for many the enduring memory of Shenmue involves it’s busier urban areas – but in many respects Shenmue was at it’s best- most atmospheric in its quieter moments. Moments blessed more with humility that action or out and out excitement. The quiet streets of Dobuita, catching Cherry Blossom at the temple, waiting patiently at cafes – cups upturned – for associates of Zhu.

Personally, I quite like the fact that Shenmue 2 wound down significantly after the roof battle, with the third disk offering barely any gameplay as Ryo and Shenhua walk to Bailu Village, talking as they go. It was a pleasant change from all that came before – quiet, serene, contemplative.
Shenmue’s already done both ‘small town’ and ‘big city’ – a change in setting would help separate the games, pull people away from drawing constant comparisons. It would also make development more manageable and is sensible, in my view, to set sights a little lower. I don’t mean lacking in ambition, but a small, rich and vivid gameworld would be far better than one that feels diluted because Yu and his team were over stretched.
Don’t bite off more than you can chew, Yu.

Regardless of the game’s size and scope, whether Yu Suzuki creates another sprawling epic or something altogether more parochial – the most important thing for me is that the story gets to continue.
There are two sets of people in this world. Those who finished both games, and those who didn’t. Those who didn’t are often irritatingly ambivalent about Shenmue. Those who did are at once boundless in their enthusiasm for Shenmue – yet forever tinged with sadness. The feeling that Ryo will never be avenged. We’ll never know Ryo’s father’s involvement with the Chi You Men*. We’ll never get to meet Niao Sun (above) who’s concept art has teased us all for almost 15 years.
The very knowledge that the rest of the story will be revealed – is a massive relief for those who finished both games. You’ve seen the video of GameTrailers guy right?

While I didn’t lose my shyt in quite as spectacular fashion I’d be lying if I said the announcement wasn’t an emotional occasion for me. I totally understand why anyone would have this reaction. 14 years of pent up demand suddenly gushing out like geyser – all that want, all that desire, it’s a release which, frankly, is borderline sexual in its intensity.
I remember way back in (what I am now calling) the ‘Dark Days’, reading somewhere that the final part of the story might be released in manga form. Honestly I would totally have take that, back then. That would have been just fine for me – if only so we could finish the story.
In that respect, I’d almost be okay with Shenmue 3 taking the format of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, where Ryo Hazuki just sits there for half an hour and delivers lines in a flat monotone, explaining the events that followed THAT evening in The Cave.

Whatever shape or form Shenmue 3 takes – I think it’s safe to say that it is in the best possible hands. Yu Suzuki has fought long and hard to get to this point. If we, his fans, have felt frustrated at not having a game to play, imagine how frustrated he must have felt not being able to complete the work he started. Yu Suzuki is a man of significant talent and has a track record that very, very few in the entire 40 years of this industry could ever claim or hope to match.
It goes without saying that I have already pledged my money to the cause. I hope that anyone who ever sat at a campfire with Shenhua, or looked up at Shenmue’s blossom that evening, will have done the same.
Not to increase that ever-growing dollar amount, you undserstand – but rather, to give thanks and show support to a man who made one of the finest videogame experiences ever committed to disk.
Good Luck Yu! (Do it for Nozomi!)
(And please, please don’t let it turn out to be a bit shyt)

* Ryo’s Dad totally killed Lan Di’s Dad. You know that, right? It’s a story about the futility of revenge – and Ryo, being the better man, is going to break the cycle. That’s totally going to be the ending. Just so you know.
 
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