San Francisco DA was recalled from office

[get these nets]

No, the more reasonable, obvious explanation is that the media was on a clear "pro-Black" wave for a brief period of about May-November 2020 that reverted to a roided-up version of their normal "anti-crime" posturing in 2021.

No one became any more or less susceptible to media influence, it's just that mainstream media's attention span is shyt and willingness to defy norms is fleeting. You're disingenuously suggesting that media acted the same in 2020 as they did in 2021-22 which is patently ridiculous.

So were people just "susceptible to media influence" during the Pro Black wave that ushered in the reforms? Are they less or more susceptible now?

People seem to be remote control puppets the way you're framing it.
Not adults who live, work, raise families and having the right and ability to make political decisions.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

So were people just "susceptible to media influence" during the Pro Black wave that ushered in the reforms? Are they less or more susceptible now?

Yes they were just as susceptible. Are you seriously going to dispute that media and social media narratives during that period were helpful? If you don't think it was media and social media that pushed the movement, WTH do you think it was? Why would random people on the west coast, for example, even have a sudden, unprecedented reaction to incidents of police brutality on the other side of the country if it wasn't driven by media and social media.

People seem to be remote control puppets the way you're framing it.
Not adults who live, work, raise families and having the right and ability to make political decisions.

This is disingenuous bullshyt. You're trying to attack the indisputable fact, "Media narratives impact public perception" by creating ridiculous strawmen.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Here is a piece that came out after the election. The Black lady quoted in the article echoes some of the comments I've made in this subforums in the past. Unless I'm mistaken, she is the lady shown in the OP video.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/op-ed-boudin-recall-reveals-democrats-rift-with-minority-voters/article_57ab6554-eb2d-11ec-a0d9-dfdab6d5efed.html

I just noticed that the article @Get These Nets quoted for his position is an op-ed by a Real Clear Politics columnist. Literal right-wing propaganda.

And her main argument that "minority voters" supported the recall over "white liberals" was based on.....wait for it....stats on San Fran Asians and a anecdotal claim from a paid "Recall Boudin" staffer.

 

[get these nets]

@Rhakim

Does you neighborhood and city seem more safe in 2022 than it was in 2018?

Do the facts support your take

Yes they were just as susceptible. Are you seriously going to dispute that media and social media narratives during that period were helpful? If you don't think it was media and social media that pushed the movement, WTH do you think it was? Why would random people on the west coast, for example, even have a sudden, unprecedented reaction to incidents of police brutality on the other side of the country if it wasn't driven by media and social media.






This is disingenuous bullshyt. You're trying to attack the indisputable fact, "Media narratives impact public perception" by creating ridiculous strawmen.

Impacting public perception by covering events is one thing. We are talking about the Bay Area. They are and were ahead of the curve on many progressive issues .

You attributing the recall results in that region, that city on "media narratives" is disingenuous.

Each city or metro area will make decisions about public safety based on the particular set of circumstances, realities, and trends there.
As was pointed out by a member who is FROM THAT REGION, the fact that some of these votes are turning that way in some of these "key liberal cities" points to public safety realities and trends hurting efforts to sustain reform in other cities.

"The narrative" ? Really?

 

[get these nets]

I just noticed that the article @Get These Nets quoted for his position is an op-ed by a Real Clear Politics columnist. Literal right-wing propaganda.

And her main argument that "minority voters" supported the recall over "white liberals" was based on.....wait for it....stats on San Fran Asians and a anecdotal claim from a paid "Recall Boudin" staffer.

Deflection.

Easier than accepting the voter results, I guess.
Same tactics when there were threads about voter / official results in other cities. Same that will be used in future threads.

Echo Chambers are not it.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

@Rhakim

Does you neighborhood and city seem more safe in 2022 than it was in 2018?

In 2018 I was washing blood off of me from a triple-shooting. I haven't had to do that in 2022. So if I'm basing my answer on random personal anecdotes rather than actually relevant information, what do you think my answer should be?

Do the facts support your take

Yes.

Impacting public perception by covering events is one thing. We are talking about the Bay Area. They are and were ahead of the curve on many progressive issues .

You attributing the recall results in that region, that city on "media narratives" is disingenuous.

Each city or metro area will make decisions about public safety based on the particular set of circumstances, realities, and trends there.
As was pointed out by a member who is FROM THAT REGION, the fact that some of these votes are turning that way in some of these "key liberal cities" points to public safety realities and trends hurting efforts to sustain reform in other cities.

"The narrative" ? Really?

You're just repeating your opinion without offering the slightest factual basis for it.

The claim that media narratives don't impact public perception is ridiculous. And insisting on that claim over and over is your only argument. You've repeatedly dismissed all data that contradicts your narrative based solely on the assumption that if people believe something, it must be true.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Deflection.

Easier than accepting the voter results, I guess.
Same tactics when there were threads about voter / official results in other cities. Same that will be used in future threads.

Echo Chambers are not it.

Breh, Real Clear Politics is a TRASH site. They are pure right-wing propaganda, and your support for your position was one of THEIR op-eds. They claim that "minorities" supported recall in San Fran moreso than "liberal Whites" by quoting the data from Asian neighborhoods, and then the "Black lady" they used to support their position is someone getting paid $16,000/month by the Recall Boudin campaign.


You're the one who keeps deflecting from the actual data, over and over. And the justification you're using to do that are literal media narratives. You just proved that yourself.

 

[get these nets]

In 2018 I was washing blood off of me from a triple-shooting. I haven't had to do that in 2022. So if I'm basing my answer on random personal anecdotes rather than actually relevant information, what do you think my answer should be?





Yes.





You're just repeating your opinion without offering the slightest factual basis for it.

The claim that media narratives don't impact public perception is ridiculous. And insisting on that claim over and over is your only argument. You've repeatedly dismissed all data that contradicts your narrative based solely on the assumption that if people believe something, it must be true.

Yes, you understand the past and current public safety environment in these cities better than the voters who live there.

They knew what they were doing when you agreed with their votes, but now they are clueless.

Again, echo chambers are not it.

 

[mastermind]

Again, echo chambers are not it.

The nerve of a statement like this coming from you.

 

[get these nets]

Breh, Real Clear Politics is a TRASH site. They are pure right-wing propaganda, and your support for your position was one of THEIR op-eds. They claim that "minorities" supported recall in San Fran moreso than "liberal Whites" by quoting the data from Asian neighborhoods, and then the "Black lady" they used to support their position is someone getting paid $16,000/month by the Recall Boudin campaign.


You're the one who keeps deflecting from the actual data, over and over. And the justification you're using to do that are literal media narratives. You just proved that yourself.

The woman is listed as HEADING A Recall Boudin organization the very first time that she is introduced.

There is no reveal here. She was mentioned in the article because of her progressive credentials/experience.
I'm sure she still supports criminal justice reform efforts, just wanted Boudin out.
Pretty certain you suspected as much.

Only MAGA set marches in lockstep. Other people have different views and takes than those they share ideologies/leanings with.
The reluctance to accept this puzzles me.
Crime/law reform/public safety are not quite the side vs side issues that some would have us believe.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Yes, you understand the past and current public safety environment in these cities better than the voters who live there.

Oh look, more disingenuous bullshyt rather than actually replying to the arguments and data.

You do realize that you're committing a logical fallacy, right? Why do you keep going back to that over and over, knowing that it is a fallacious argument?

They knew what they were doing when you agreed with their votes, but now they are clueless.

Complete bullshyt and now you're lying on me. I already said they were responding to the media narratives THEN and NOW both. Either you're intentionally misrepresenting my argument or just plain not paying attention at all.

Again, echo chambers are not it.

Now you're just posting hashtags.

You asked me directly for my personal experience. I gave it to you. You immediately ignored it and then proceeded to attack me personally again.

Besides the fact that your arguments are full of logical fallacies, that's just fukking disrespectful. Why even ask my personal experience and make me type about one of the worst things to happen to me if you're just going to ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative?

 

[storyteller]

Yes, you understand the past and current public safety environment in these cities better than the voters who live there.

They knew what they were doing when you agreed with their votes, but now they are clueless.

Again, echo chambers are not it.

Does this mean voting in the minority represents not knowing better? Like 45% voted against the recall despite living there. Are they clueless now because they didn't agree with the majority?

That's just to illustrate that there are typically more variables to voting results and looking at the results in a binary is always gonna be flawed imo.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

ehh, as someone who live out here, there's a lot of nuance being missed in what's driving this. i'm on a call and don't have time to write a full response, but the concern about public safety predates 2020, the homelessness problem, the safety issues that arise from it, and it's encroachment into desirable areas is a big driver, furthermore the incidence of property crime and assault happening in the desirable areas drove pushback, lastly, although violent crime is down, it has was up the past two years and again, it spilled out of the places people are ok with it happening into the heartbeat areas of oakland like the lake. a lot of property crime isn't reported since anything under $1000 isn't a misdemeanor in many cases, and even times that it is a misdemeanor, it's not pursued, furthermore, who reports a broken car window or stolen bike? is a busted window or missing bike the end of the world? no, but it absolutely creates a feeling of more lawlessness and crime and i can say without a doubt i see cars broken into/vandalized more frequently than in the past and along blocks you'd never expect it to happen... i could go on, but there are a lot of reasons the public took the stance they did that don't have to do with media programming as i can say i've seen and experienced it myself

the media def created extra hype - ie the asian attacks - but you also have to take into account the people experiencing this personally, or their friend who did, on top of apps like nextdoor and citizen, ring and cell phones video being shared on twitter and reddit that make everything more visible.

 

[get these nets]

Oh look, more disingenuous bullshyt rather than actually replying to the arguments and data.

You do realize that you're committing a logical fallacy, right? Why do you keep going back to that over and over, knowing that it is a fallacious argument?





Complete bullshyt and now you're lying on me. I already said they were responding to the media narratives THEN and NOW both. Either you're intentionally misrepresenting my argument or just plain not paying attention at all.





Now you're just posting hashtags.

You asked me directly for my personal experience. I gave it to you. You immediately ignored it and then proceeded to attack me personally again.

Besides the fact that your arguments are full of logical fallacies, that's just fukking disrespectful. Why even ask my personal experience and make me type about one of the worst things to happen to me if you're just going to ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative?

Didn't mean to ignore that. You posted it as though you were being facetious.
Glad that you've overcome the physical effects. Disagreeing on an issue doesn't mean that people stop being civil to each other.

I saw your "TLR stupidity" thread as pointing out behavior patterns of incivility, among other things. That level of behavior exists in HL as well. Threads about news stories covering the rolling back of reform measures are littered with classic TLR juelzes "you aren't Black, you're a Republican" and other 8th grade behavior. Meant to derail the convo.


Sorry about what happened to your friend.


What I was getting at was that individuals are going to factor past and current experiences, in their voting decisions. Crime is real, has real consequences for victims and those who live in deteriorating blocks, districts, and cities.

Residents have a right, and responsibility to take actions that they think will improve conditions/trends.

You disagreeing with their decision is cool, but writing off their decisions seems to disregard THEIR reasons .
The piece quoting two leaders of the recall movement were dismissed like their views don't matter.

 

[Miles Davis]

No, the more reasonable, obvious explanation is that the media was on a clear "pro-Black" wave for a brief period of about May-November 2020 that reverted to a roided-up version of their normal "anti-crime" posturing in 2021.

No one became any more or less susceptible to media influence, it's just that mainstream media's attention span is shyt and willingness to defy norms is fleeting. You're disingenuously suggesting that media acted the same in 2020 as they did in 2021-22 which is patently ridiculous.





Bullshyt. Not only did robbery, assault, rape, and property crime all DROP from 2019 to 2021, but the total variation is on the order of 0.1% of the population, meaning there is zero fukking chance that any residents are able to discern the "facts on the ground" based on personal experience as opposed to media narrative.

Blaming Chesa Boudin for crime is empirically wrong

Five myths about progressive DAs and lawlessness, debunked

www.motherjones.com

Do you think the pro black wave was also used by politicians to gain votes in the presidential election?