Ryan Coogler was not the right director for Black Panther

[MartyMcFly]

The posters on this site who come in and reduce every fukking movie to how much was popping in the fight scenes.

This is the first problem. Second problem, besides the fact @track 1 probably didn't make it past the first 15 min of the first act, is Coogler was the perfect director for this because he made it a personal story. What a lot of cats on here miss when talking about movies in general, not just comic book movies, is the emotional core; the heartbeat. Reducing shyt to fight scenes and explosions and all that is silly for that reason alone.

Coogler brought his experiences growing up in Cali and as a black man wondering what it would be like in Africa while really riding that tension between the two words "African" and "American." The movie's third act is what it is because most (not all) of Marvel's third acts are like that; that's the house style and you get what you get. But even then, the emotional core of the story and the characters is still there in the third act even if it feels like a different movie. But dude hit this out of the park because he had an intimate understanding of the characters, the world, and its meaning. He presented both arguments (Killmonger and T'Challa) without making either look weaker and had an innate understanding of why each believes their right and where they both aren't quite on the mark. that's a real gift as a filmmaker and storyteller.

I say all that to ultimately end with: once again, the coli cares too much about what other people think about the shyt they love

 

[Rain]

This is the first problem. Second problem, besides the fact @track 1 probably didn't make it past the first 15 min of the first act, is Coogler was the perfect director for this because he made it a personal story. What a lot of cats on here miss when talking about movies in general, not just comic book movies, is the emotional core; the heartbeat. Reducing shyt to fight scenes and explosions and all that is silly for that reason alone.

Coogler brought his experiences growing up in Cali and as a black man wondering what it would be like in Africa while really riding that tension between the two words "African" and "American." The movie's third act is what it is because most (not all) of Marvel's third acts are like that; that's the house style and you get what you get. But even then, the emotional core of the story and the characters is still there in the third act even if it feels like a different movie. But dude hit this out of the park because he had an intimate understanding of the characters, the world, and its meaning. He presented both arguments (Killmonger and T'Challa) without making either look weaker and had an innate understanding of why each believes their right and where they both aren't quite on the mark. that's a real gift as a filmmaker and storyteller.

I say all that to ultimately end with: once again, the coli cares too much about what other people think about the shyt they love

Truth

 

[Easy-E]

Liked black panther in civil war, infinity war and end game way better than the official black panther movie


Felt like he didn’t really flex on his super hero powers

anyone else feel this way

The issue was more the writing and them doing another unnecessary origin story.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I agree with him, the thing is
..he lost every fukkin fight in that movie pretty much, no powers,no dominance at all and he using vibrainium? Wtf

You mean every fight except the human traffickers at the beginning, M'Baku in the challenge, Klaue's men in the club, taking down Klaue himself, kicking W'Kabi's ass and all his men, and then defeating Killmonger in the end.

We got a Black superhero in one of the most well-put together and meaningful superhero movies ever, one that was historically popular globally, and you're seriously bytching that it didn't have the same tired martial arts/special effects bullshyt that you can watch in 500 other movies.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The issue was more the writing and them doing another unnecessary origin story.

It wasn't "unnecessary" though, that origin story was the only way that the movie could be a commentary on the Black American experience in any sense. Take away the origin story and you take away the entire soul of the conflict in the movie, that tension between the African experience and the Black American experience and how the diaspora relates to itself and the other.

 

[Easy-E]

It wasn't "unnecessary" though, that origin story was the only way that the movie could be a commentary on the Black American experience in any sense. Take away the origin story and you take away the entire soul of the conflict in the movie, that tension between the African experience and the Black American experience and how the diaspora relates to itself and the other.

My issue is that they wasted time on "Am I good enough to be King?"

And not enough time on what it meant to be a Wakandian.

I get the "sins of your father..." thing and it's dope.

But, they never reconciled the advanced technology side with the "traditional" side.

Hell, even the religion aspect was reduced sown to magic juice and visions.

And the vibranium/science shyt overboard.

M'Baku was right; they're entire science division was headed by a 16 year old who basically does magic.

Then the coup. Y'all really gave up your entire country on a fukking technicality?

The reason I say "wasted time" is because we had an origin story in Civil War and it was great.

They're was so much skimmed over and other things completely fast track because the movie couldn't be 3 hours.

The Klaw subplot was the dumbest thing I've seen in a MCU I love.

Enemy of the most advanced society on Earth and y'all lock him up on an open street, no back up and never explain why y'all don't take him straight back to Wakanda?

I've seen this three times on theatres and own the DVD/Bluray, so, I'm not hating.

The hype just killed any real good critique.

IMO, they will right the ship and hope the same writers come back.

 

[MartyMcFly]

It wasn't "unnecessary" though, that origin story was the only way that the movie could be a commentary on the Black American experience in any sense. Take away the origin story and you take away the entire soul of the conflict in the movie, that tension between the African experience and the Black American experience and how the diaspora relates to itself and the other.

Yeah that's the whole damn movie lol. if you take any of that out, the movie doesn't work

 

[BillBanneker]

Overall I thought Coolger was great. Really brought the idea of Wakanda to life, with the level of detail and creativity and many of the characters had depth and not seem like plot devices. The action sequences were overall meh to me considering the best one was pretty much already in the trailer.


I really dislike his handling of T'Challa though. Wasn't expecting comic book level T'Challa in terms of mastery, but he was totally outclassed in favor to give his homie MBJ the shine. Felt like Coogler took some bits and ignored other bits of the Civil War arc which just really made T'Challa disjointed. Hopefully BP2 improves and give Chadwick a little more.

 

[Big Blue]

I will say T'Challa in Civil War was way more arrogant which I liked, because he's very arrogant in the comics.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

My issue is that they wasted time on "Am I good enough to be King?"

And not enough time on what it meant to be a Wakandian.

I get the "sins of your father..." thing and it's dope.

But, they never reconciled the advanced technology side with the "traditional" side.

Hell, even the religion aspect was reduced sown to magic juice and visions.

And the vibranium/science shyt overboard.

M'Baku was right; they're entire science division was headed by a 16 year old who basically does magic.

Then the coup. Y'all really gave up your entire country on a fukking technicality?

The reason I say "wasted time" is because we had an origin story in Civil War and it was great.

They're was so much skimmed over and other things completely fast track because the movie couldn't be 3 hours.

The Klaw subplot was the dumbest thing I've seen in a MCU I love.

Enemy of the most advanced society on Earth and y'all lock him up on an open street, no back up and never explain why y'all don't take him straight back to Wakanda?

I've seen this three times on theatres and own the DVD/Bluray, so, I'm not hating.

The hype just killed any real good critique.

IMO, they will right the ship and hope the same writers come back.

I think expounding on all the Wakandan culture/religion/tradition shyt would be beautiful, but for the most part that kinda stuff only works in the format of a series. Over the course of the movie you only have time to focus on the shyt that advances the plot, there just isn't a ton of space to explore the world the characters live in. Rather they're giving us the feel of the culture, the idea that technology and tradition can interweave and exist in harmony, more than spending a ton of time explaining it.

They had to dive into T'challa and his self-doubts because they had to create a valid reason why Killmonger's ideas would be attractive to some of his people. If the king's faults and uncertainties weren't believable, then we'd never believe that his people would turn to an outsider.

That's the same reason why Killmonger taking the throne is NOT a technicality or an accident. Killmonger was of royal blood, and royal blood is allowed to challenge for the throne. He won the challenge fair and square. That's not a technicality, the throne is SUPPOSED to go to the royal who demonstrates his alpha status fair and square over the other man. It was just a surprise that a royal ever would have been cast out. The fact that T'challa was full of self-doubts along with the people's lack of certainty that Wakanda was on the right path, along with T'challa's "death" of course, showed us why they were willing to follow even an outsider who challenged for the throne fairly and promised a different way forward.



If you really think it's all that farfetched....look at the fukkhead that America gave away the country to, and he couldn't even manage to win the popular vote....

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Overall I thought Coolger was great. Really brought the idea of Wakanda to life, with the level of detail and creativity and many of the characters had depth and not seem like plot devices. The action sequences were overall meh to me considering the best one was pretty much already in the trailer.

I really dislike his handling of T'Challa though. Wasn't expecting comic book level T'Challa in terms of mastery, but he was totally outclassed in favor to give his homie MBJ the shine. Felt like Coogler took some bits and ignored other bits of the Civil War arc which just really made T'Challa disjointed. Hopefully BP2 improves and give Chadwick a little more.

I think Black Panther 2 has to give T'Challa far more because this was the "coming of age" story. The next story should be confident, in-charge T'Challa demonstrating the fullness of his powers and mature character more extensively.

I mean, think back to Captain America's origin story, he hardly did shyt for 80% of his first movie. Same with Iron Man. They take their time letting these guys build.

 

[Easy-E]

I will say T'Challa in Civil War was way more arrogant which I liked, because he's very arrogant in the comics.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

M'Baku was right; they're entire science division was headed by a 16 year old who basically does magic.

The Klaw subplot was the dumbest thing I've seen in a MCU I love.

Enemy of the most advanced society on Earth and y'all lock him up on an open street, no back up and never explain why y'all don't take him straight back to Wakanda?

If T'Challa is one of the most extraordinary human beings on Earth, then his blood sister should be extraordinary too. I mean, the shyt she does ain't half as crazy as the wild shyt that Tony Stark regularly comes up with overnight. That being said, I think they overdid it on the technology too.

I think the idea on Klaue was that he was being locked in a secret CIA drop location because Wakanda doesn't have anything better in Korea, and the CIA and Wakanda were fighting over jurisdiction. But I agree with you that it was stupid, Wakanda shouldn't give a fukk about the CIA or anyone else's jurisdiction, just put that motherfukker on the ship and take him home for trial.

I was much more pissed over the Agent Ross ending. Unless Coogler was trying to drop some huge hint of a meta-narrative regarding CIA interference in African affairs, then I don't see how having the White agent shoot down Wakandan ships wasn't a bunch of bullshyt. He had never flown that fukking plane and the Wakandans would have been the best of the best too. I don't mind having a White guy play a positive role, and I loved his lane for 90% of the movie (basically get punked, get shot, get saved, and get told to shut up and listen), but he never, ever should have been allowed to shoot down Wakandans and it was totally unnecessary to the plot to have those ships even get out. If anyone needed to stop them, it should have been T'Challa or Okoye.

 

[Easy-E]

I think expounding on all the Wakandan culture/religion/tradition shyt would be beautiful, but for the most part that kinda stuff only works in the format of a series. Over the course of the movie you only have time to focus on the shyt that advances the plot, there just isn't a ton of space to explore the world the characters live in. Rather they're giving us the feel of the culture, the idea that technology and tradition can interweave and exist in harmony, more than spending a ton of time explaining it.

They had to dive into T'challa and his self-doubts because they had to create a valid reason why Killmonger's ideas would be attractive to some of his people. If the king's faults and uncertainties weren't believable, then we'd never believe that his people would turn to an outsider.

That's the same reason why Killmonger taking the throne is NOT a technicality or an accident. Killmonger was of royal blood, and royal blood is allowed to challenge for the throne. He won the challenge fair and square. That's not a technicality, the throne is SUPPOSED to go to the royal who demonstrates his alpha status fair and square over the other man. It was just a surprise that a royal ever would have been cast out. The fact that T'challa was full of self-doubts along with the people's lack of certainty that Wakanda was on the right path, along with T'challa's "death" of course, showed us why they were willing to follow even an outsider who challenged for the throne fairly and promised a different way forward.



If you really think it's all that farfetched....look at the fukkhead that America gave away the country to, and he couldn't even manage to win the popular vote....

You talking about the how. I get the how. I don't get the how.

They showed us one guy upset T'Challa couldn't catch Klaw. Then, he teamed up with the guy who actually stopped it.

Now, I get him finding out and not hating Eric, but, him wanting a brand new king nobody knows over one mistake.

They wrote it like he lost Wakanda because of failing for Klaw. But, wait he lost to because he was arrogant and thought he could beat Kilmonger one om one. Wait, but, he was unsure of himself.

The movie is like a week after Civil War.

Next, no they had time to actually make this about Wakanda...cut the car chase out.

I thought the intro was cool, but, cutable.

The tech was: vibranium is in everything and fixes all. They eat and drink it.

And we're being dishonest making it out to be anymore complex. O

And of course you snuck a Trump shot in

The movie flawed not bad.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You talking about the how. I get the how. I don't get the how.

They showed us one guy upset T'Challa couldn't catch Klaw. Then, he teamed up with the guy who actually stopped it.

Now, I get him finding out and not hating Eric, but, him wanting a brand new king nobody knows over one mistake.

They wrote it like he lost Wakanda because of failing for Klaw. But, wait he lost to because he was arrogant and thought he could beat Kilmonger one om one. Wait, but, he was unsure of himself.

He lost his kingdom because he didn't meet the criteria for king. Full stop. The king is the royal who proves himself in personal combat, and he failed. That's all.

But the people were willing to follow their new leader because of the doubts, the uncertainties, the feeling that perhaps they weren't going in the right direction and needed a new way. They could have allowed Killmonger to take the throne but that wouldn't have explained why they would risk their nation going along with his global ambitions. They went along with that shyt because they felt that the old way had failed them and the world.

And of course you snuck a Trump shot in

What's that supposed to mean?

The USA willingly gave control of the country to a political outsider who was literally one of the worst people in the country. Businessmen handed the economy over to a guy who had bankrupted a dozen businesses, White Christians put the credibility of their faith in the hands of a fully un-Christian man, Republicans bet the future of their party on an old White man who alienates virtually everyone outside of their radical base. Is that really any easier to explain than Wakanda giving their nation over to Killmonger? It only makes sense if you understand why Americans felt that the current rulers were failing them. That's why you have to build that narrative of T'Challa's shortcomings and doubts first before you can explain why they'd be willing to try a different way.