Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

None of that addresses any of the technical questions I asked. You're just assuming you know the mentality of literally every single person within the system and I'm not sure on what basis you're making those assumptions.





You don't have to be "pacifist" or "anti-war" to think "Let's not kill millions of civilians with nuclear weapons solely to satisfy one deranged tyrant". At least 90% of humanity wouldn't want that to happen. Are you really so certain that NONE of those 90% are in a position to potentially sabatogue?

They don't even have to be the ones who "take the order". They could be a nuclear scientist charged with maintaining nuclear readiness of the warheads. They could be a rocket scientist charged with ensuring the ICBMs are in proper working condition. They could be an electrical engineer or even a fukking electrician who is monitoring the circuits. I honestly have no idea how many people come within contact of each of those things, but there's going to be more than a few and several of them are going to need such specific technical expertise that they can't be pure hacks picked for political reliability alone.

Individual Russians have single-handedly blocked nuclear launches before. Look up Vasily Arkhipov or Stanislav Petrov. Both refused to go along with orders and thus prevented what could have been tremendous disasters.

Vasily Arkhipov - Wikipedia

Stanislav Petrov - Wikipedia

Compare a dude on a sub refusing to go along with his captain with a soldier in the Russian military refusing to go along with a direct order from his President, brehs.

It is not the same thing. And I know the story. There was even a movie loosely based on it. Denzel was in it. You should check it out one day.

But that ain't even remotely the same as Putin giving the order for a strike. You place too much faith in people. There are russian soldiers in Ukraine right now killing women and children because their president told them to.

I'm supposed to now believe that those same soldiers would grow a conscience when it comes to a nuclear strike?

Yes, I would like to think that self preservation would kick in and they wouldn't let a strike happen because they know they would get hit soon after.

But I dont have faith in that. People are stupid. Some ppl are blindly stupid. Some people don't care if the world burns. Some people will believe they are doing it for the glory of Mother Russia.

I would place more faith in military funding being siphoned off, which decreased the amount of money that was invested into nuclear readiness, thereby leading to a decay, if you will, of Russia's nuclear capability.

To me, that's more likely than your scenario of a good guy (or guys) that's somehow going to thwart Putin, as if in the event that the person he gives the order to doesn't want to do it, there won't be ten more people volunteering to take his place.

The people who are charged with taking care of Russia's nukes aren't going to intentionally not take care of Russia's nukes, breh.


I mean, think about it. Imagine you're a freaking technician who deactivated Russia's nukes and then in some crazy twist of events, another country hits Russia with a nuke and russian nukes aren't ready to go cause of some fool who intentionally clipped the wires



Come on, breh, what you're saying makes no sense.

As I said, if you're hoping that Russia's nukes won't be ready to go in the event of Putin snapping mentally, you would do better to place your hope in greedy Russian oligarchs siphoning off the money and not letting the adequate amount of funding actually reach where it needed to go to keep the nuclear arsenal in tip top condition.

But there is no 90% of conscientious objectors that exists in Russia's nuclear apparatus that want to disarm Russia's nuclear arsenal. Countries, ESPECIALLY Russia, see their nuclear arsenal as their only major line of defense against being invaded themselves and destroyed.

And enough has happened throughout russian history where they have a valid worry about that. So I'm sure the soldiers, scientists and techs want the nukes ready to go in the event of somebody trying to wipe them out of existence.

 

[CASHAPP]

I'll give it 3 weeks before mass cannibalism and civil war breaks out in Russia.

Its a matter of when. Whether Putin lives or dies that Russian Revolution is coming its gonna get crazy over there.

 

[Wild self]

Its a matter of when. Whether Putin lives or dies that Russian Revolution is coming its gonna get crazy over there.

If COVID and supply chain issues led to the madness of Summer 2020 in America, Russia must be q000 times worse. Especially When Spring is coming and the weather is getting warmer.

 

[CASHAPP]

Russia wouldn't nuke Ukraine because they share a border and the radiation will reach Russia. However I would not be surprised if Putin is crazy enough to nuke a nearby country that many Ukranians are going to, such as Poland.

And one guy people aren't talking about enough is Sergei Laprov, he should be labeled as a war criminal himself. He is basically Putin's "dikk Cheney" when it comes to being his biggest enabler of all his war crimes throughout Europe.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Compare a dude on a sub refusing to go along with his captain with a soldier in the Russian military refusing to go along with a direct order from his President, brehs.

This alone suggests that you've barely read what I've said.

But that ain't even remotely the same as Putin giving the order for a strike. You place too much faith in people. There are russian soldiers in Ukraine right now killing women and children because their president told them to.

On the other hand, there are also Russian soldiers in Ukraine right now who have refused to kill women and children despite their president telling them to, either by not pressing forward, holding their fire, or by literally abandoning their posts. And not killing a handful of civilians is a tiny incentive compared to "not destroying the world".

I'm supposed to now believe that those same soldiers would grow a conscience when it comes to a nuclear strike?

No, not "the same soldiers", once again you're barely even reading what I'm saying. There's a good chance the people I'm speaking of have never taken a life in their entire lives.

To me, that's more likely than your scenario of a good guy (or guys) that's somehow going to thwart Putin, as if in the event that the person he gives the order to doesn't want to do it, there won't be ten more people volunteering to take his place.

Wow, you really need to reread what I said because this once again suggests you didn't even look at it.

The people who are charged with taking care of Russia's nukes aren't going to intentionally not take care of Russia's nukes, breh.

Sort of like how the people who built the US nuke program in the first place wouldn't immediately change their mind just weeks later and protest to stop the US from dropping the nukes? Except they did, close to 100 of them had second thoughts and tried to stop bombs from being dropped on Japan. Only they didn't realize their error until the nukes were already out of their hands.

I mean, think about it. Imagine you're a freaking technician who deactivated Russia's nukes and then in some crazy twist of events, another country hits Russia with a nuke and russian nukes aren't ready to go cause of some fool who intentionally clipped the wires

You're talking like that's some monumental loss. What would be the actual loss to...anyone? Even in the eyes of the Russian technician, what would be lost by that nuke not going off that he wasn't already willing to face when he cut the wires in the first place?

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

This alone suggests that you've barely read what I've said.




On the other hand, there are also Russian soldiers in Ukraine right now who have refused to kill women and children despite their president telling them to, either by not pressing forward, holding their fire, or by literally abandoning their posts. And not killing a handful of civilians is a tiny incentive compared to "not destroying the world".




No, not "the same soldiers", once again you're barely even reading what I'm saying. There's a good chance the people I'm speaking of have never taken a life in their entire lives.





Wow, you really need to reread what I said because this once again suggests you didn't even look at it.





Sort of like how the people who built the US nuke program in the first place wouldn't immediately change their mind just weeks later and protest to stop the US from dropping the nukes? Except they did, close to 100 of them had second thoughts and tried to stop bombs from being dropped on Japan. Only they didn't realize their error until the nukes were already out of their hands.





You're talking like that's some monumental loss. What would be the actual loss to...anyone? Even in the eyes of the Russian technician, what would be lost by that nuke not going off that he wasn't already willing to face when he cut the wires in the first place?

I'm reading everything you're saying, bro, trust me.

Maybe you have more faith in people than I do.

I dont trust any of them.

The fact that nuclear weapons even exist shatters my faith in most of humanity.

Maybe you're right. Maybe there are people with consciences over there. I haven't seen it. The people with conscience are often the ones who are shut out of the system, unable to effect any serious change.

I just believe that there are contingencies for a nuclear strike. There has to be.

I mean, first of all, all the nukes aren't launching from the same location.

So even if there exists a tech or a scientist with a conscience as you hope, he won't be able to keep all nukes from getting in the air. I dont even think he'd be able to keep a serious percentage of nukes from getting in the air.

Again, these people look at nukes as their only defense against being nuked. They're keeping the nukes in good condition if for no other reason than that.


As I said, these people are indoctrinated to see nuclear weapons as their only means of deterrence against they themselves being nuked. No one wants to be known as the person who sabotaged russian nukes in the event that Russia was hit with a nuclear weapon.

These people are keeping the nukes in as good condition as they have the ability to do so. I mean, they HAVE to.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I'll give it 3 weeks before mass cannibalism and civil war breaks out in Russia.

I could see that if it were China. China has completely acculturated their people to materialism and they're pretty spoiled about it, if China started having limited resources shyt would go to hell quick. That's likely the biggest reason that China has backed off in helping Russia out very much.

Russians, on the other hand, I feel have gotten extremely disillusioned with their lives beyond just the fact that Russians famously have tolerated all sorts of other shytty conditions. Unless they run out of vodka they might just keep on keeping on until Putin falls out of power. It was already depressing enough to be a Russian that they may have become conditioned to it.

All bets are off if Putin falls out of power though, I have no idea what will happen next.

 

[Grand Conde]

How much help does Zelensky need?

A lot - they are in the middle of a fukking war.

 

[Wild self]

I could see that if it were China. China has completely acculturated their people to materialism and they're pretty spoiled about it, if China started having limited resources shyt would
go to hell quick. That's likely the biggest reason that China has backed off in helping Russia out very much.

Russians, on the other hand, I feel have gotten extremely disillusioned with their lives beyond just the fact that Russians famously have tolerated all sorts of other shytty conditions. Unless they run out of vodka they might just keep on keeping on until Putin falls out of power. It was already depressing enough to be a Russian that they may have become conditioned to it.

All bets are off if Putin falls out of power though, I have no idea what will happen next.

Puting reached the point of no return. He himself knows that he is gonna croak by the end of this year. He been in power for over 20 years, so why does he feel like NOW is the time for him to recite Russian History of the Tsar to the public?

He gonna go out like Gaddaffi or Saddam.

 

[jj23]

Why is there a full blown argument over nuclear sabatoge?




It's just speculation. No one is arguing its a fact. It's unlikely to happen but we have been discussing various scenarios throughout this thread.

Let’s take a pause and move on.

 

[88m3]

A lot - they are in the middle of a fukking war.

It's not like Canada needs it anyways and their military is in terrible shape last I read.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Why is there a full blown argument over nuclear sabatoge?




It's just speculation. No one is arguing its a fact. It's unlikely to happen but we have been discussing various scenarios throughout this thread.

Let’s take a pause and move on.

Brehs, yall gotta stop getting upset over the expression of different viewpoints.

I enjoy sparring with my brother @Rhakim. He knows I respect him and truly appreciate his input on these forums. Over the past 2 years I have turned to him on many occasions to personally ask for his input, as I enjoy reading what he has to say.

I even enjoy debating him because I believe he sharpens me. As the Bible says, man sharpeneth man.

That's why I come into HL. I enjoy the intelligent discourse even when I disagree with it. It all adds to me and I learn so much.

 

[GunRanger]

How much help does Zelensky need? Because this is just ridiculous. I know its Canada and they always get clowned but depleting most of your military to help Ukraine fight? This is getting too crazy

 

[88m3]

War in Ukraine Prompts a Political Makeover in Poland

 

[jj23]

Brehs, yall gotta stop getting upset over the expression of different viewpoints.

I enjoy sparring with my brother @Rhakim. He knows I respect him and truly appreciate his input on these forums. Over the past 2 years I have turned to him on many occasions to personally ask for his input, as I enjoy reading what he has to say.

I even enjoy debating him because I believe he sharpens me. As the Bible says, man sharpeneth man.

That's why I come into HL. I enjoy the intelligent discourse even when I disagree with it. It all adds to me and I learn so much.

Sparring is fine. You actually don't see where it changed from sparring to a stalemate?

That said. You are right. Carry on. My bad.