Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)

[Professor Emeritus]

The Ukrainian people will decide who many lives they sacrifice - not us.

Ukraine has not held any votes on that, and a majority in a nation deciding to sacrifice a separate regional minority is a human rights violation anyway. Do you think the people of Crimea would decide the same way about that equation that the Ukrainian military leaders would decide?

And we obviously have a say - we're the ones arming them. You can't wash your hands of that. Why not arm the Crimeans and the Russians and the Russian-speaking Ukrainian rebels too, if our arming isn't a decision and everyone gets a say?

And define "Crimean" - are we referring to the Tatars who Russia committed genocide against or the Russian folk now squatting on their land?

Just a dumbass, hypocritical argument - whose land are you squatting on right now, eh?

Tartars deserve justice, and current Crimeans deserve a chance to live too.

And you threw out an unsupported argument (Putin is ill and he will surely learn his lesson) to bolster your own - "grrr he'll be back and this time he'll be really mad"

Of course it's an unsupported argument - that was my point. You're arguing for the killing of tens of thousands of people based on unsupported speculation, while dismissing any speculation that doesn't support your case. At least my speculation was more rational than yours was.

What are you getting at here? We're using a lot of words just to say, "war bad".

It shouldn't take a lot of words to say that, but some people in this thread are dense as fukk.

Seems like this thread is full of a ton of people who really enjoy rooting on wars, and a small group who have fought them, but without any voices speaking up for the people subjected to them. I've had about equal experience with the people who fight wars and the people subjected to wars, and they're pretty different perspectives. But even to have one voice in the conversation speaking for those subjected to the war seems to be really, really threatening to a certain contingent of posters.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Russia Tried to Absorb a Ukrainian City. It Didn’t Work.

In Kherson, national songs were banned, speaking Ukrainian could lead to arrest, and students were told they were Russian. Cue the resistance.

www.nytimes.com

 

[hashmander]

And how many Ukrainian lives are you happy to sacrifice for that? If the majority of Crimeans just want the war to end, but keep dying because Ukrainian "wants everything", how many deaths are justified to serve that mission? Would you be okay with 10,000 deaths? 20,000? Who has the right to decide that, if opportunity comes to spare those lives instead?







Putin is a 70yo cancer patient and Russia is in an absolutely horrible situation compared to where they started the war. The idea that getting his military destroyed, his economy destroyed, and his population turned against him, only to get beaten back all the way to Crimea, will somehow embolden him to turn around and re-attack a more prepared Ukraine and stronger NATO than he failed against the first time back when he had a stronger army and a stronger country standing behind him....it's completely unfounded. It's just pure speculation thrown out to drive the argument.

If you believe Putin's like that, then you might as well believe that he'd come back and try again if he gets beaten out of Crimea too. In fact, he might be more likely to start a second war if he gets beaten out of Crimea, in order to at least achieve that limited objective and save face.

the ukranian people, not me, get to decide how many lives they are willing to sacrifice to take back what is theirs. i support them if they want to fight and if they decide they don't that's their decision to make as well. you don't get to decide if ukraine should just say ok putin have crimea just please stop attacking us.

appeasement never works.

 

[Mister Terrific]

Ukraine has not held any votes on that, and a majority in a nation deciding to sacrifice a separate regional minority is a human rights violation anyway. Do you think the people of Crimea would decide the same way about that equation that the Ukrainian military leaders would decide?

And we obviously have a say - we're the ones arming them. You can't wash your hands of that. Why not arm the Crimeans and the Russians and the Russian-speaking Ukrainian rebels too, if our arming isn't a decision and everyone gets a say?








Just a dumbass, hypocritical argument - whose land are you squatting on right now, eh?

Tartars deserve justice, and current Crimeans deserve a chance to live too.





Of course it's an unsupported argument - that was my point. You're arguing for the killing of tens of thousands of people based on unsupported speculation, while dismissing any speculation that doesn't support your case. At least my speculation was more rational than yours was.





It shouldn't take a lot of words to say that, but some people in this thread are dense as fukk.

Seems like this thread is full of a ton of people who really enjoy rooting on wars, and a small group who have fought them, but without any voices speaking up for the people subjected to them. I've had about equal experience with the people who fight wars and the people subjected to wars, and they're pretty different perspectives. But even to have one voice in the conversation speaking for those subjected to the war seems to be really, really threatening to a certain contingent of posters.

Are you arguing for status quo ante bellum?

 

[jj23]

And how many Ukrainian lives are you happy to sacrifice for that? If the majority of Crimeans just want the war to end, but keep dying because Ukrainian "wants everything", how many deaths are justified to serve that mission? Would you be okay with 10,000 deaths? 20,000? Who has the right to decide that, if opportunity comes to spare those lives instead?







Putin is a 70yo cancer patient and Russia is in an absolutely horrible situation compared to where they started the war. The idea that getting his military destroyed, his economy destroyed, and his population turned against him, only to get beaten back all the way to Crimea, will somehow embolden him to turn around and re-attack a more prepared Ukraine and stronger NATO than he failed against the first time back when he had a stronger army and a stronger country standing behind him....it's completely unfounded. It's just pure speculation thrown out to drive the argument.

If you believe Putin's like that, then you might as well believe that he'd come back and try again if he gets beaten out of Crimea too. In fact, he might be more likely to start a second war if he gets beaten out of Crimea, in order to at least achieve that limited objective and save face.

Were we predicting he was going to continue his push into Ukraine after Crimea?

People speculate about what he might do because he is unpredictable at best, unhinged at worst.

Crimea is a part of Ukraine. It was annexed. They can decide if the want it back at this stage. The same way Russia did massive forced migrations in parts of Ukraine, Russia can relocate their Crimean loyalists.

Either way it's not for us to decide.

 

[88m3]

Did that cause a massive flood?



Crimea handed over.only way to end it..otherwise I'm not.going back to the negotiation table.

nah it just destroyed the road but the dam is surely damaged idk if anyone knows how badly

 

[88m3]

 

[88m3]

 

[88m3]

 

[88m3]

idk how anyone can expect or ask Ukraine not to defend themselves at this point after the child abductions and numerous other war crimes including the mass killing and rape of civilians

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

And how many Ukrainian lives are you happy to sacrifice for that?

Not up to you or me.

Would you be okay with 10,000 deaths? 20,000? Who has the right to decide that, if opportunity comes to spare those lives instead?

Ukraine.

only to get beaten back all the way to Crimea, will somehow embolden him to turn around and re-attack a more prepared Ukraine and stronger NATO than he failed against the first time back when he had a stronger army and a stronger country standing behind him....it's completely unfounded. It's just pure speculation thrown out to drive the argument.

It's the Russian way. We all know this.

If you believe Putin's like that, then you might as well believe that he'd come back and try again if he gets beaten out of Crimea too.

Um...yeah.

We're using a lot of words just to say, "war bad". Seems like appeasement

Pretty much.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Fascinating

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

Seems like this thread is full of a ton of people who really enjoy rooting on wars, and a small group who have fought them, but without any voices speaking up for the people subjected to them. I've had about equal experience with the people who fight wars and the people subjected to wars, and they're pretty different perspectives. But even to have one voice in the conversation speaking for those subjected to the war seems to be really, really threatening to a certain contingent of posters.

So now you are the voice of the Ukrainian people?

FOH with that self righteous BS.

Go to Ukraine and tell them to stop fighting so they can live in peace and they'll smack the taste out of your mouf.

As for "rooting on wars" goes, once again I will say that I along with the vast majority of humanity hate war. That being said, Russia started the war. I want them to lose the war. I want Ukraine to win. I enjoy watching Russia take losses in men, equipment and territory. I wake up every morning to see how much further Putin's shyt got pushed back and Not gonna apologize for it either. I actually encourage you to adopt my point of view on this and every other issue I address in this thread in order to avoid any further misunderstandings. It really is for your own good.

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

@Rhakim, you do realize we are in a NO BS sub forum right?

Why you clowning?

 

[Carl Tethers]

Ukraine has not held any votes on that, and a majority in a nation deciding to sacrifice a separate regional minority is a human rights violation anyway. Do you think the people of Crimea would decide the same way about that equation that the Ukrainian military leaders would decide?

And we obviously have a say - we're the ones arming them. You can't wash your hands of that. Why not arm the Crimeans and the Russians and the Russian-speaking Ukrainian rebels too, if our arming isn't a decision and everyone gets a say?








Just a dumbass, hypocritical argument - whose land are you squatting on right now, eh?

Tartars deserve justice, and current Crimeans deserve a chance to live too.





Of course it's an unsupported argument - that was my point. You're arguing for the killing of tens of thousands of people based on unsupported speculation, while dismissing any speculation that doesn't support your case. At least my speculation was more rational than yours was.





It shouldn't take a lot of words to say that, but some people in this thread are dense as fukk.

Seems like this thread is full of a ton of people who really enjoy rooting on wars, and a small group who have fought them, but without any voices speaking up for the people subjected to them. I've had about equal experience with the people who fight wars and the people subjected to wars, and they're pretty different perspectives. But even to have one voice in the conversation speaking for those subjected to the war seems to be really, really threatening to a certain contingent of posters.

This post isn't as deep a dive into moral philosophy as you think it is

While you designate yourself to be the moral arbiter of war, I'm taking the teleological approach of enjoying seeing Russia get their shyt pushed in for thinking they can run roughshod over their neighbour