Rodrigo Duterte Ordered Philippine Killings, Professed Hit Man Testifies

Mowgli

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You're just playing a dumbshyt confirmation bias game. EVERY region has violence in its history, so you can pull an example out of your ass anywhere.

America committed genocide against the California Indians, America is now stable. Both facts are true, but you'd have to be an idiot to conflate them.

Rwanda became, "stable" after the Rwandan genocide, therefore the Rwandan genocide stabilized Rwanda? :mjlol:

We could play this stupid game all day - for every act of mass violence that you claim "stabilized" a country, I'll give you half-a-dozen others that were just fukked up.


I been to the Philippines since this shyt got posted, I got multiple people there who have had friends murked since this shyt started. You don't have to have shyt to do with the drug industry to get caught, you just have to be someone that got police attention for any reason whatsoever. There ain't no enforcement of standards, no oversight, it's just a lot of killings based on grudges and bloodlust and classism and community hate.

In the USA we have the rule of law with all sorts of supposed oversight and stuff, and we STILL have over 1000 people a year killed by the cops, hundreds of them in circumstances that are suspicious as fukk.

Back-of-the-envelope math shows that the Filipino cops are killing at a rate TWENTY TIMES higher than the USA right now. You think that's a "stabilizing" force?




How the hell the cops just happen to kill 11 "robbers who were also involved in narcotics" on the same night as 14 killed in sting operations? How do you find 14 robbers who fit that description on the same night....why not every night?
The phillipines will be stabilized at that rate.

Let the dog do the demonic work. Put the dog down, take the credit and let time do its job.

Not saying its right thats just how it works.

Negged for being nasty.
 

Professor Emeritus

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The phillipines will be stabilized at that rate.

Let the dog do the demonic work. Put the dog down, take the credit and let time do its job.

Not saying its right thats just how it works.

Negged for being nasty.

You caping for a mass murderer who is impacting the lives of people I know personally, killing their friends, and you neg me for "being nasty" cause I used a couple bad words when I demolished your argument?

:why:

I don't know you or how old you are, but that's some real millenial shyt right there. Cape for a murderer but get triggered by a curse word. :dahell:
 

Mowgli

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You caping for a mass murderer who is impacting the lives of people I know personally, killing their friends, and you neg me for "being nasty" cause I used a couple bad words when I demolished your argument?

:why:

I don't know you or how old you are, but that's some real millenial shyt right there. Cape for a murderer but get triggered by a curse word. :dahell:
Not caping. Just giving the reality of how nations are stabalized. With blood. The one whos triggered is you, for good reason but this is a fact of the human condition that we cant seem to avoid.

Before nations get to law and justice alot of people usually die. What can you do? Nothing.
 

Professor Emeritus

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Not caping. Just giving the reality of how nations are stabalized. With blood. The one whos triggered is you, for good reason but this is a fact of the human condition that we cant seem to avoid.

Before nations get to law and justice alot of people usually die. What can you do? Nothing.

* First off, the claim is bullshyt. You don't "stabilize" a nation by extrajudicial killings and eliminating the rule of law. A population controlled by arbitrary fear is a fukked up population.

Do some reading on The Troubles, where the British tried to control the Catholics via escalation and militarism and shyt just got worse and worse. Do some research on the relationship between U.S. crime rates and police, where the escalation and militarization of force is almost always counterproductive, because it destroys the legitimacy of the police in the community's eyes, ends community collaboration, increases disfunctionality, and increases the number of boys growing up traumatized and without fathers. Take a look at countries that already have had out-of-control arbitrary police violence for decades and see how they doing.


* Second off, the idea that the Philippines is some out-of-control unstable nation is ridiculous. Their murder rate is comparable to Louisiana (well, it was lower until Duterte started killing people like crazy). Do you think the police should have free reign to shoot people in Louisiana too? Yes, it is high-crime for Asia, but that's mostly due to huge wealth disparities, extremely corrupt police, and easy access to guns. Which of those three things is Duterte solving right now?

I was there twice, once for 6 weeks and once for 2 weeks, and spent most of that time in the poorest neighborhoods, including Welfareville and Balic-Balic...I didn't even see a crime I can remember except some people doing drugs casually. I was never the victim of a crime, even though I been victimized in several other countries. The concern about rising drug use is EXACTLY the same sort of concern about rising drug use in America, the fears of high crime when crime has in fact been dropping are EXACTLY the same sort of fears about high crime even though crime has been dropping here. The biggest difference is that like 60% of people in Manila live in slums and there are even more massive disparities between the rich and poor there than there are here.


* Third, crime had already been dropping in the Philippines for several years before Duterte ever took office. Why not just do what you're doing while addressing the main systemic issues - poverty and corrupt police - instead of letting the police go wild on the poor?


* Finally, Duterte already had 20+ years of pulling this shyt in Davao. And Davao still has an above-average crime rate for the Philippines. Yes, it's gone down during his tenure, but that's true for the entire island, not just Davao, so he hardly gets credit for that. How is this death squad shyt going to clean up the whole country when he couldn't even clean up his own city?


I'd like you to give me an example of a single country in the last 20 years that improved the lives of its population by eliminating the rule of law and letting the police and non-police death squads arbitrarily kill people. Hell, when you fail at that, shoot for last 100 years instead.
 

Mowgli

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Europe during ww2
China during the cultural revolution
Rwandan genocide.


All gdps rose significantly after mayhem.

Acknowledging reality isnt caping. Bunch of folks die so someone can do what they want with the territory and assets. Gangsters.
 
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Professor Emeritus

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Europe during ww2
China during the cultural revolution
Rwandan genocide.

All gdps rose significantly after mayhem.

Those are terrible answers. It's like you just pulled out three cases of violence at random (only the Cultural Revolution is even the least bit comparable to what Duterte is doing) where things happened to get better at some later point under completely unrelated governing and events.

Like saying that giving the other team a 30-point lead is the best way to win a game, and then listing the Atlanta Super Bowl, the Oregon Alamo Bowl, and the Oilers playoff game as your proof. Those were the rare times that a team eventually succeeded DESPITE taking a massive L, not because of it.


#1. Europe's GDPs had to improve at some point because there had been a global depression in the early 1930s that had just started lifting before WW2 started. And the European violence didn't have any of the elements of Duterte's violence - it's not about targeting the poor, it's not about the breakdown of faith in police and government among the people. It is about as unrelated as you can get.

But the improvement obviously wasn't "because" they had taken massive losses, because the USA economy improved better and faster than all of them and they didn't have shyt happen on their soil. In fact, the lack of violence on USA soil is one of the reasons that America became the world's economic superpower in the 1950s.



#2. The Cultural Revolution was a HORRIBLE thing for China. Even the Communist Party had to drop the propaganda game and admitted that straight up in 1981 when they declared that it was "responsible for the most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People's Republic." You seriously going to argue with them? China didn't start improving until Mao died (five years after he had declared an end to the Cultural Revolution) and Deng Xioping started fixing all the horrific mistakes they made. It was Chinese reforms tied up with the opening to the USA that led to improvement, the CR had only set them back.

Cambodia is the obvious example that proves you wrong, because they were doing a similar thing as the Cultural Revolution at the same time and it simply destroyed their country. The thing that changed China was the late-1970s reforms, NOT the late 1960s violence.



#3. Trying to tie violence in Rwanda to improvements in Rwanda is one of the strangest arguments I've seen - I listed that earlier as a counter to your point cause I didn't think anyone would be so ridiculous as to connect the two. Rwanda had 3 months of horrific violence, after which the civil war was won by the people who were being targeted, Kagame took power, and eventually with a huge amount of foreign assistance the country started rebuilding...but it's ridiculous to suggest, "Oh, how about we start killing our own population so that they overthrow us and then the West will assist the survivors and perhaps they'll rebuild the country together." :mjlol:

And again, the obvious counterexample to the point is that the violence in Rwanda led to horrific continuing violence - something like 200,000 people killed in the refugee camps and hundreds of thousands more in the Kagame-sponsored wars in Congo. If violence is what made Rwanda better, then why not Congo, which has now had even worse violence for longer?



And then beyond all those we could list Armenia after the genocide, Germany after WW1, Mexico after the revolution and the purges, USSR after the purges, China after WW2, India/Pakistan after partition violence, Spain under Franco, North Korea after civil war, Bangladesh after the civil war, Northern Ireland under the troubles, Nicaragua after the civil war, Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam after the Vietnam War, Cambodia after the purges, Chile under dictatorship, Iraq and Iran after the Iran/Iraq War, Afghanistan after Soviet invasion, Iraq after the Gulf War, Angola after the civil war, Afghanistan after civil war, Iraq after the US invasion, Sierra Leone after the civil wars, Palestine with all the horrific shyt Israel done to it, Indonesia under dictatorship, East Timor under the genocide, Guatemala after war and dictatorship, El Salvador after dictatorship/purges, Liberia after civil war, Bosnia after the genocide, Somalia after societal collapse, Ivory Coast after the coup, Zimbabwe under dictatorship, Columbia and FARC, Afghanistan after US invasion, Uganda after the LRA rebellion, Sudan after civil war, Crimea after Russian devastation...I'm sure I'm missing others.

Right now you have Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, the Muslims in Burma, northern Nigeria, Mexican drug wars, and the Philippines...how you think they gonna go? :picard:


You picked a few outliers where something got better years after the violence, but only because completely different people took control and started doing completely different shyt. The improvements were unrelated to the violence and in fact IN SPITE of it, which is why I can give 10 examples of places where shyt stayed bad for decades for every one example you give where shyt improved.

And WW2 or Rwandan genocide aren't even remotely like what Duterte doing right now, so those examples random as hell.


Actual analogies would be El Salvador under military government, Palestine under Israel, Chile under Pinochet, Zimbabwae under Mugabe, or a dozen other scenarios like that. In each one you had violent rulers like Duterte claim they had to use violence in order to control their population. In each one you had the nation's security forces become seen as killers. In each one you just have extended suffering and the collapse of civil society, as violence increasingly becomes seen as the only law.
 

Mowgli

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Those are terrible answers. It's like you just pulled out three cases of violence at random (only the Cultural Revolution is even the least bit comparable to what Duterte is doing) where things happened to get better at some later point under completely unrelated governing and events.

Like saying that giving the other team a 30-point lead is the best way to win a game, and then listing the Atlanta Super Bowl, the Oregon Alamo Bowl, and the Oilers playoff game as your proof. Those were the rare times that a team eventually succeeded DESPITE taking a massive L, not because of it.


#1. Europe's GDPs had to improve at some point because there had been a global depression in the early 1930s that had just started lifting before WW2 started. And the European violence didn't have any of the elements of Duterte's violence - it's not about targeting the poor, it's not about the breakdown of faith in police and government among the people. It is about as unrelated as you can get.

But the improvement obviously wasn't "because" they had taken massive losses, because the USA economy improved better and faster than all of them and they didn't have shyt happen on their soil. In fact, the lack of violence on USA soil is one of the reasons that America became the world's economic superpower in the 1950s.



#2. The Cultural Revolution was a HORRIBLE thing for China. Even the Communist Party had to drop the propaganda game and admitted that straight up in 1981 when they declared that it was "responsible for the most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People's Republic." You seriously going to argue with them? China didn't start improving until Mao died (five years after he had declared an end to the Cultural Revolution) and Deng Xioping started fixing all the horrific mistakes they made. It was Chinese reforms tied up with the opening to the USA that led to improvement, the CR had only set them back.

Cambodia is the obvious example that proves you wrong, because they were doing a similar thing as the Cultural Revolution at the same time and it simply destroyed their country. The thing that changed China was the late-1970s reforms, NOT the late 1960s violence.



#3. Trying to tie violence in Rwanda to improvements in Rwanda is one of the strangest arguments I've seen - I listed that earlier as a counter to your point cause I didn't think anyone would be so ridiculous as to connect the two. Rwanda had 3 months of horrific violence, after which the civil war was won by the people who were being targeted, Kagame took power, and eventually with a huge amount of foreign assistance the country started rebuilding...but it's ridiculous to suggest, "Oh, how about we start killing our own population so that they overthrow us and then the West will assist the survivors and perhaps they'll rebuild the country together." :mjlol:

And again, the obvious counterexample to the point is that the violence in Rwanda led to horrific continuing violence - something like 200,000 people killed in the refugee camps and hundreds of thousands more in the Kagame-sponsored wars in Congo. If violence is what made Rwanda better, then why not Congo, which has now had even worse violence for longer?



And then beyond all those we could list Armenia after the genocide, Germany after WW1, Mexico after the revolution and the purges, USSR after the purges, China after WW2, India/Pakistan after partition violence, Spain under Franco, North Korea after civil war, Bangladesh after the civil war, Northern Ireland under the troubles, Nicaragua after the civil war, Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam after the Vietnam War, Cambodia after the purges, Chile under dictatorship, Iraq and Iran after the Iran/Iraq War, Afghanistan after Soviet invasion, Iraq after the Gulf War, Angola after the civil war, Afghanistan after civil war, Iraq after the US invasion, Sierra Leone after the civil wars, Palestine with all the horrific shyt Israel done to it, Indonesia under dictatorship, East Timor under the genocide, Guatemala after war and dictatorship, El Salvador after dictatorship/purges, Liberia after civil war, Bosnia after the genocide, Somalia after societal collapse, Ivory Coast after the coup, Zimbabwe under dictatorship, Columbia and FARC, Afghanistan after US invasion, Uganda after the LRA rebellion, Sudan after civil war, Crimea after Russian devastation...I'm sure I'm missing others.

Right now you have Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, the Muslims in Burma, northern Nigeria, Mexican drug wars, and the Philippines...how you think they gonna go? :picard:


You picked a few outliers where something got better years after the violence, but only because completely different people took control and started doing completely different shyt. The improvements were unrelated to the violence and in fact IN SPITE of it, which is why I can give 10 examples of places where shyt stayed bad for decades for every one example you give where shyt improved.

And WW2 or Rwandan genocide aren't even remotely like what Duterte doing right now, so those examples random as hell.


Actual analogies would be El Salvador under military government, Palestine under Israel, Chile under Pinochet, Zimbabwae under Mugabe, or a dozen other scenarios like that. In each one you had violent rulers like Duterte claim they had to use violence in order to control their population. In each one you had the nation's security forces become seen as killers. In each one you just have extended suffering and the collapse of civil society, as violence increasingly becomes seen as the only law.
Its not a master plan. Its just a byproduct. When all or enough of your enemies are dead or terrified you can begin to guide your nation in a way you see fit.

Seems to be the penchant of most so called great leaders.

The mass murderer Lenin as well :manny:

Once pol pot killed all his enemies and was out of office gdp rose
 
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Gains

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guy was fukkboi for the ferdinand marcos dictatorship
 
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Professor Emeritus

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Its not a master plan. Its just a byproduct. When all or enough of your enemies are dead or terrified you can begin to guide your nation in a way you see fit.

:gucci:

But in all your examples (WW2, Mao, Rwanda) the leader isn't even the one who guided the country back, it was others who did it after the leader died/was overthrown.

There are a LOT of examples, many of which I already gave you, where the leader "killed all his enemies and guided the country in a way he saw fit" and the country CONTINUED to suck for years or decades.

Having opposition is NOT what keeps you from having prosperity or rule of law. It's like you've developed political theory from the Dictator's Guide to the Galaxy.




Once pol pot killed all his enemies and was out of office gdp rose

What kind of bullshyt are you making up? Cambodia's GDP didn't return to pre-Khmer Rouge levels until FIFTEEN YEARS after Pol Pot left office in 1979. It first started crashing due to the combination of the American bombing and the Khmer Rouge civil war, hit its absolute bottom at the end of 4 years of Khmer Rouge rule, STAYED at that absolute bottom for six years after Pol Pot because the country was so fukked up, and then finally slowly climbed, but it wasn't until 1994 that it even got back to 1970 levels. And all that climb happened in the context of extreme levels of international aid and first Vietnamese, then UN and NGO control over all sorts of important processes.


Okay, I'm done with you. Either you're trolling, or this is an example of people who have NO IDEA what they're talking about needing to listen before they open their mouth. :mjlol:
 
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Mowgli

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:gucci:

But in all your examples (WW2, Mao, Rwanda) the leader isn't even the one who guided the country back, it was others who did it after the leader died/was overthrown.

There are a LOT of examples, many of which I already gave you, where the leader "killed all his enemies and guided the country in a way he saw fit" and the country CONTINUED to suck for years or decades.

Having opposition is NOT what keeps you from having prosperity or rule of law. It's like you've developed political theory from the Dictator's Guide to the Galaxy.






What kind of bullshyt are you making up? Cambodia's GDP didn't return to pre-Khmer Rouge levels until FIFTEEN YEARS after Pol Pot left office in 1979. It first started crashing due to the combination of the American bombing and the Khmer Rouge civil war, hit its absolute bottom at the end of 4 years of Khmer Rouge rule, STAYED at that absolute bottom for six years after Pol Pot because the country was so fukked up, and then finally slowly climbed, but it wasn't until 1994 that it even got back to 1970 levels. And all that climb happened in the context of extreme levels of international aid and first Vietnamese, then UN and NGO control over all sorts of important processes.


Okay, I'm done with you. Either you're trolling, or this is an example of people who have NO IDEA what they're talking about needing to listen before they open their mouth. :mjlol:
The killer is disposable.

Cambodias gdp was largely flat until the dirty work was done. 15 years is a long time after a nation has been devastated by war? Should it have gone up a yesr later?

After duarte is gone and does his work, the phillipines will see a reinvigoration of tourism and its gdp will also rise and feel safer for whites and asians to do whatever they do there.

Duarte and people like him are catalysts
 
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Professor Emeritus

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What the fukk kind of stupid logic is that?

Pol Pot literally destroyed his nation as much as it could be destroyed, the GDP couldn't get lower.

It had to get better at some point, and you're giving Pol Pot credit for that even though it didn't happen till over 15 years after the END of his violence. :heh:

25 years after the start. :mjlol:

There ain't a single historian, economic theorist, political scientist, ANYONE who would tell you that Pol Pot destroying the nation in the 1970s is what led to economic growth in the late 1990s.

I'm done with you. I have to thank you though, because your examples did a better job of proving what a bad idea this all is than anything I said.


"Leave this guy alone, violence makes things better, just look at Pol Pot, the Rwandan genocide, and the Holocaust." :deadrose::deadrose::deadrose:
 

ORDER_66

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And this is the man Trump was jerking off huh??? :snoop: America always loving dictators and tyrants then turn around and act like mother teresa when its called for because they love having the moral authority
 
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