Roc Marciano's 'Marcberg' Changed Rap music

mundL

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reloaded only recently clicked with me and so did the rest of rocs albums, there are alot more i need to get to before criminal jazz drops i wanna be through with his discog

my friend on ktt used to try put me on but i wouldnt listen lol

now roc and ka albums are all that i spin (mix in the regular naS, em or common,.. spins but yea)
 

Bugzbunny129

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nikka are u dense? P didn’t do what Roc did and does. That’s the difference. Roc made the underground FLY nikka. He MADE it COOL to be an underground rapper. ANY underground street rapper will tell u this. The EMCEES AND PRODUCERS give him this credit. It’s not about who did it first. Roc had a whole different aesthetic than Sean Price. U had cats like ASAP Yams stating his life his like a Roc Marci verse. Roc EXPANDED his aesthetic on Reloaded. But it was very much there on Marcberg and he is credited for breathing life into the underground scene.


You keep harping on mcs and producers using roc now, the face of that movement; no different again from people just saying doom in 2010s as if he was the only ug rapper that existed.

But yet when roc tells you, his success in ug comes from sean price directly, you fight me on it. Idk why. At same time you act like sean P had no bearing yet roc is saying opposite about the album in question.

How does sean P have no influence when hes the biggest part of the fukking album we are discussing. One ROC HIMSELF SAYS WAS

CRICKETS

without sean price looking him out.

You think cuz someoen has a different sound, they are two totally different things with no connection or no movement prior. Jay electronica is obviously sonically inspired by rza/sunz of man/wu killa bees/shabazz etc etc but when asked about his fav rappers and inspiration 9/10x he says jay nas biggie and andre3k + all southern rappers. Even tho he is a southern killah priest clone with direct rza/andre 3k isms.

Does that mean a connection dont exist? Because they arent named? This is why we are having the discussion because ROC is only one named. Because he is the face everyone knows in it. Yet its way deeper than that. Like @O.Red said. Its a multi tiered discussion that gets lumped into “roc started it. Everyone else is his son”

Roc marciano and sean price are not sonically the same, yet are connected through the ug movement. And they have MANY similarities ie their use of comedy and boombappy beat style. Marcberg came DIRECT from that movement. Yet you wanna give roc all the credit for later updates on a diff album. Roc on reloaded and after aint roc on marcberg. He fibally cracked the code on reloaded and found his niche. Saying marcberg did that is bullshyt. Thats like saying wutang spawned from words from rhe genius. They are products of 2 diff times.

RELOADED is the album the VIDEO is saying marcberg is.

If someone said operation doomsday made the ug blow id say same shyt when it was onviously madvillain. Yet madvillain comes from a LONG LINE of albums. It didnt just come out the blue. Yet i see “doom started short songs, hookless rap, rnb features with no rap etc” these days in online videos and discussion when its obviously DIRECTLY inspired by rza/ghost albums to the T. YET , when discussing madvillain these days guys like talib kweli say “doom started that” like it was fact. Like you are with roc rn. That dont make it true because people parrot it online.

Roc like doom was, is the face of a movement with most sucesss. The biggest showing of those styles. BUT Not the creator of it.

Im giving props to the mcs who dont get it. And that warrants discussion on a hip hop online forum wtf lmao. . Idk why you have a problem with it or fighting over it like these guys added NOTHING. And its allllll ROC. You wanna harp what big names use other big names on interviews. Im talking about the little guys who inspire these albums and get no love for it. No attention. No love. No credit. Like they didnt exist. Like marci created something alone without hip hop influencing him.

His movement is a direct offshoot of the mid 2000s ug back to basics hip hop style +90s gangster imagery spawned by 90s mainstream rappers regulated to ug status in 2000s. Youre ignoring dozens of factors, artists (before and after marcberg), mainstream artists using those sounds att, changes in music biz to give me a blanket statement like “roc marciano created this wave and all follow his lead” when it was a combination of multiple things. Ignoring the fact his sound itself is redundant and been around at same tome. Youre the one who thought it new. Not me. Currensy lad/willie the kid 100% were doing the “fly guy” commercial ughh multi release wave BEFORE marci. This is NOT debatable.

Waves come from…. Other waves. We are breaking it down here. If you cant understand or cant doscuss without being offended by it lmao. Bounce. Everything I said is a fact. He did not start multi vinyl releases, “fly ughh” (or whatever the fukk that means), or the return to basics formula. Period.

He def added flavor and made his own vibe that was super influential….On RELOADED!

NOT On marcberg
 
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Piff Perkins

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One thing that is always left out of this convo, largely because it came out as early is 2007 is Alchemist and Prodigy's Return Of The Mac. If we're going strictly off the sounds this is the true birth of what became the 2010s underground wave



I hate giving a cac so much credit but Alc is definitely one of the pillars of this movement


No doubt. And Sean P. Monkey Bars came out in 2005. IMO a couple factors were at play. First I think before 2010/Marcberg there was still an anti-independent sentiment due to the 50 Cent v Koch shyt. Being independent was not wavy, dudes were constantly being clowned for selling 10-30k (despite making good money off that independently). I def remember not being able to get "real rap" fans to listen to Return Of The Mac because of that shyt. Roc didn't have that issue by 2010, in large part due to the second factor: the rap blogs got more popular. All of a sudden there was an avalanche of dope shyt on the blogs and most of the people I knew into rap were peeping that shyt. A complete 180 degree turn from just a couple years earlier when I couldn't get anyone to hit Nahright for Hell Razah or Killah Priest or Prodigy lol. Despite being older than all the young rappers who were on those blogs, Roc felt apart of that era due to how dope he was and how COOL he was.

Looking back, all that shyt had a level of coolness in 2010 onwards that I didn't really sense before that year, outside of a couple rappers (Blu in 2007 for instance). I was into Brother Ali and all that type of shyt at the time so yea....I knew it wasn't wavy lol. So to go from that to actually being able to play young rap shyt for chicks in college in 2010/2011, or to be able to impress my nikkas with Roc Marci was a WILD turn of events.
 

yourgod

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Word I also feel like what separated Roc was the way he rapped. nikka was NICE. on some fly shyt. Was a real street nikka. And he had a sense of humor. nikka was like the underground Jay Z or some shyt. lol.
I always compare rocs first two albums with Jay’s stylistically. On RD you can still hear some of that fusnickens style in jays flow, on marcberg u can hear some of rocs old un flow. By the time reloaded/vol1 dropped, they sort have settled into themselves, they finally dropped the rappity rap shyt and they sound effortless.

But yeh Marcberg aint change shyt, it was a dirty east coast record that got lost in the mix of some really good projects and mixtapes that were dropping on blogs like nah right. The 2000s was a real dark time for ug rap. Thank god for sean price!
 

spliz

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No doubt. And Sean P. Monkey Bars came out in 2005. IMO a couple factors were at play. First I think before 2010/Marcberg there was still an anti-independent sentiment due to the 50 Cent v Koch shyt. Being independent was not wavy, dudes were constantly being clowned for selling 10-30k (despite making good money off that independently). I def remember not being able to get "real rap" fans to listen to Return Of The Mac because of that shyt. Roc didn't have that issue by 2010, in large part due to the second factor: the rap blogs got more popular. All of a sudden there was an avalanche of dope shyt on the blogs and most of the people I knew into rap were peeping that shyt. A complete 180 degree turn from just a couple years earlier when I couldn't get anyone to hit Nahright for Hell Razah or Killah Priest or Prodigy lol. Despite being older than all the young rappers who were on those blogs, Roc felt apart of that era due to how dope he was and how COOL he was.

Looking back, all that shyt had a level of coolness in 2010 onwards that I didn't really sense before that year, outside of a couple rappers (Blu in 2007 for instance). I was into Brother Ali and all that type of shyt at the time so yea....I knew it wasn't wavy lol. So to go from that to actually being able to play young rap shyt for chicks in college in 2010/2011, or to be able to impress my nikkas with Roc Marci was a WILD turn of events.
These nikkas really don't get it in here they too stuck on fukkin Sean Price. They don't understand what the difference was wit Roc so im not gonna argue some shyt I sat here and witnessed with my own eyes. nikkas mentioning Sean Price and forgetting about Doom n shyt. But still not understanding. shyt if nikkas wanna get technical look at the waves Spitta was making from 09 onwards. nikkas like Roc and Spitta STOOD OUT because they had an aesthetic to their shyt. And that's why they still here today and get the props they do today.
 

DaveyDave

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One thing that is always left out of this convo, largely because it came out as early is 2007 is Alchemist and Prodigy's Return Of The Mac. If we're going strictly off the sounds this is the true birth of what became the 2010s underground wave



I hate giving a cac so much credit but Alc is definitely one of the pillars of this movement


It's not NY but All also has an EP with Fashion that has no/minimal drums that is one of my favs.
 
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reloaded only recently clicked with me and so did the rest of rocs albums, there are alot more i need to get to before criminal jazz drops i wanna be through with his discog

my friend on ktt used to try put me on but i wouldnt listen lol

now roc and ka albums are all that i spin (mix in the regular naS, em or common,.. spins but yea)
Go thru them all, all his projects are dope and he has multiple classics and even the albums that aren't classics will still have classic songs.

Then he has random standalone songs that are bangers:




And dope ass guest appearances:







Low key, him and boldy need to do a collab tape prod by V Don or Alc
 

TheDarceKnight

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I've never seen someone argue a point so strongly that is basically the same as what everyone else is saying. No one has said Sean Price didn't have any influence on the chain of events. Of course there was a connection there. And Sean Price was my legit friend in real life (RIP, brother) so far be it for me to ever try and say anything that seems like it's not giving him props.

Just seems wild to me to say that Reloaded influenced the culture and Marcberg didn't, when they are essentially two sides of the same coin released just 2 years apart. Reloaded was a more sophisticated version of what Roc attempted the first time around on Marcberg.

Sean kind of revitalized the underground goon rap movement as a whole in the mid 00's with Monkey Barz, and Roc kind of took the torch like you said after the Snow Remix.

But Marcberg 100% influenced the game. Not the same extent as Reloaded, but I almost view Marcberg as like a demo tape of Reloaded. Roc just hadn't 100% dialed in his new formula yet.
 
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Bugzbunny129

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I've never seen someone argue a point so strongly that is basically the same as what everyone else is saying. No one has said Sean Price didn't have any influence on the chain of events. Of course there was a connection there. And Sean Price was my legit friend in real life (RIP, brother) so far be it for me to ever try and say anything that seems like it's not giving him props.

Just seems wild to me to say that Reloaded influenced the culture and Marcberg didn't, when they are essentially two sides of the same coin released just 2 years apart. Reloaded was a more sophisticated version of what Roc attempted the first time around on Marcberg.

Sean kind of revitalized the underground goon rap movement as a whole in the mid 00's with Monkey Barz, and Roc kind of took the torch like you said after the Snow Remix.

But Marcberg 100% influenced the game. Not the same extent as Reloaded, but I almost view Marcberg as like a demo tape of Reloaded. Roc just hadn't 100% dialed in his new formula yet.
Why ? cause not a single point of logic is being used by anyone claiming roc is the sole creator of this.

use a quote if you wanna talk about things. Dont be scared to have a discussion like @spliz know some of you cant carry a conversation with so many letters but you seem like you can follow.

one album is defining and popular and the other is underground and NOT. Again. Did words from the genius start the wu wave? Did reasonable doubt start the jayz wave or did volume 2? Its being purposely obtuse.


Yall the ones getting aggy at others bringing up other artists from the previous generation having claims of helping to create said wave.

First. Lets clarify. WHAT IS A WAVE?

Do they just spontaneously appear? Or are they fed from other waves?



Is it true or not that MOST artists of this “wave” are redundant versions of the exact rappers im referring to? Clones. Literally. Some dissed for it even by the guy they cloned.

Action bronson, westside gunn, benny the butcher… all redundant rappers with styles from the era we are talking about. Madlib and Dj muggs did everything alchemist did in 2010s in the 2000s. Alchemists new “wave” era started by studying madlibs formula. But “97 hov” and “95 ghostface” = BRAND NEW WAVE to yall. Lmao. Gtfoh.


Willie the kid/lad and currensy were doing exactly what roc did on reloded before reloaded and marcberg. For years. Same drug dealer ug/commercial rap blend. Ug rap was going mainstreamish before 2012. And marcberg is not one of those albums. All types of NEW rappers were blowing and getting signed with old styles in 2010s. Odd future, mr muthafukkin exquire, jay elect. Thats just off my head. Rappin to traditional ughh production. BEFORE griselda and marci. Yet everyone did it because of roc marci 3-4 years later?


yall calling something a wave, but wanna say concrete and flat out “it started here” , when that isnt even the nature of a fukking wave lmao…

all while half the artists in it are redundant versions of mcs of yesteryear yet at same time saying “yea no connection”. Entire albuns and songs named after the albums in question… supreme blientele spouting ass bullshyt.


Marcbergs sound is nowhere in the “wave” yall discussing. If it was so influential show me all these albums that sound like boombap marcberg and ill stfu. IWe gon credit UN now cuz he has some pimpy tracks on it with ug beats lmao. Marci is a popular ug rapper, but he has less monthly listeners than some of the guys in here yall call bums and ug nobodies who dont matter at all.

Newsflash guys. Roc marciano ISNT that popular. You can see that for yaself on spotify.

All i see is a buncha obvious marci stans trying to solely credit roc and downplay all else for somwthing that's been going on. Like they did doom. And a few people bribging up names that they think should get some credit and dudes digging in their heels to form some collective “fly nerd” narrative that cant even be defined as true by anyone hence why im naming dozens of names… who 100% had inspiration and helped create it.


Yall gotta be 30 years old talking about this shyt like its brand new. The other old heads obviously stopped listening to ug rap att when they got old because theyre bringing up the late 90s early 00s nerd rap ug as some sort of proof of how it changed. Idk what fukking rappers yall listened to but it obviously wasnt many.
 
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