Ridder Me This, Ridder Me That: Do We Have a QB? - Official 2023 Atlanta Falcons Thread

[The ADD]

A

Yall keep saying this but I really don't understand this logic. If you don't ever want a player you passed on in the draft, then you would basically never sign a free agent. So Lawrence, Wilson, and Lance are the only players from the 2021 draft we'd ever sign? Yall think if Jamarr Chase(another pass catcher we passed on that would've benefited Matt, which, if yall forgot, was the plan at the time) was a FA tomorrow, TF would be like "nah, we good"?

TF was a PRO scout coming from the swamp. He (likely) had little involvement in the drafts there, and our first two drafts reflect that. Our FA signings this year show where his real talent is. Based on all that, I'm sure that TF has a completely different evaluation of JF the 3rd year pro vs. JF the prospect coming off the COVID year. Now, what that evaluation is I have no idea, but I guarantee it hasn't been static for the past 3 years.

Yall don't like breh, I get it. The thought of giving him a brand new deal gives me as well. But "we didn't draft him before" makes no sense

First he’s not an FA. He’s going to cost a lot of draft capital. So your rant about FA means nothing my friend.

So they didn’t think he was there guy in a cheaper deal and now he would be on a much more expensive deal when he hasn’t shown much since he’s been drafted.

Basically we don’t think that car fits now but let’s pay more for it four years later.

Where does this seem wise?

 

[AVXL]

Yall keep saying this but I really don't understand this logic. If you don't ever want a player you passed on in the draft, then you would basically never sign a free agent. So Lawrence, Wilson, and Lance are the only players from the 2021 draft we'd ever sign? Yall think if Jamarr Chase(another pass catcher we passed on that would've benefited Matt, which, if yall forgot, was the plan at the time) was a FA tomorrow, TF would be like "nah, we good"?

TF was a PRO scout coming from the swamp. He (likely) had little involvement in the drafts there, and our first two drafts reflect that. Our FA signings this year show where his real talent is. Based on all that, I'm sure that TF has a completely different evaluation of JF the 3rd year pro vs. JF the prospect coming off the COVID year. Now, what that evaluation is I have no idea, but I guarantee it hasn't been static for the past 3 years.

Yall don't like breh, I get it. The thought of giving him a brand new deal gives me as well. But "we didn't draft him before" makes no sense

The point is that if you had the opportunity to draft a player under a current regime and didn’t, only to then turn around andwant to reward them with a 50-100 million dollar deal when they become a FA it would make me question your ability to evaluate talent and ultimately that failure to evaluate talent is costly for the team (b/c you’re going to have to pay more in FA and come off of more draft picks). It’s not a matter of “if they would do the deal for that particular player in FA” it’s more about how are you evaluating talent when you could’ve drafted them at a need position and didn’t only to circle back a few years later to try to get the same player

 

[Professor K.]

A

First he’s not an FA. He’s going to cost a lot of draft capital. So your rant about FA means nothing my friend.

So they didn’t think he was there guy in a cheaper deal and now he would be on a much more expensive deal when he hasn’t shown much since he’s been drafted.

Basically we don’t think that car fits now but let’s pay more for it four years later.

Where does this seem wise?

Ok, swap FA with trade. Same principle applies. Cowboys call us up and offer Parsons and TF gonna hang up the phone? Don't be obtuse OG

The car analogy doesn't work either because that's AUTOMATICALLY a depreciating asset. A vet QB is inherently worth more than a rookie.

The contract issue is the only valid reason to be against it. If they're asking for a 1st they can kick rocks, but trading, say, a 2nd and a 4th would be a good deal for a decent starting QB, which is all it seems it would take for us to be a winning team again


Well, that and getting rid of our goofy ass coach

 

[Professor K.]

The point is that if you had the opportunity to draft a player under a current regime and didn’t, only to then turn around andwant to reward them with a 50-100 million dollar deal when they become a FA it would make me question your ability to evaluate talent and ultimately that failure to evaluate talent is costly for the team (b/c you’re going to have to pay more in FA and come off of more draft picks). It’s not a matter of “if they would do the deal for that particular player in FA” it’s more about how are you evaluating talent when you could’ve drafted them at a need position and didn’t only to circle back a few years later to try to get the same player

I agree with you, but it's obvious TF wasn't evaluating talent well then, being a rookie GM with no experience drafting while tryna scout college for the first time during COVID. I believe he has gotten better at his job(see this past draft) as well as this falling more into his area of expertise (pro scouting vs. college). Plus, for all we know, drafting a weapon might have been a mandate from Blank tryna help Matt ride into the sunset. The past is the past, and I hope they're not too prideful as to base future decisions on past ones. If that's their thought process, this whole situation is hopeless

Humor me real quick. Let's say, hypothetically, the Bears had traded up to 3 for Fields in 2021. Everything else plays out exactly the same. How does that change things for you?

 

[The ADD]

Ok, swap FA with trade. Same principle applies. Cowboys call us up and offer Parsons and TF gonna hang up the phone? Don't be obtuse OG

The car analogy doesn't work either because that's AUTOMATICALLY a depreciating asset. A vet QB is inherently worth more than a rookie.

The contract issue is the only valid reason to be against it. If they're asking for a 1st they can kick rocks, but trading, say, a 2nd and a 4th would be a good deal for a decent starting QB, which is all it seems it would take for us to be a winning team again


Well, that and getting rid of our goofy ass coach

Is Fields performing at a level at his position the same as Parsons? He’s not and we all know it so analogy doesn’t apply.

 

[The ADD]

The point is that if you had the opportunity to draft a player under a current regime and didn’t, only to then turn around andwant to reward them with a 50-100 million dollar deal when they become a FA it would make me question your ability to evaluate talent and ultimately that failure to evaluate talent is costly for the team (b/c you’re going to have to pay more in FA and come off of more draft picks). It’s not a matter of “if they would do the deal for that particular player in FA” it’s more about how are you evaluating talent when you could’ve drafted them at a need position and didn’t only to circle back a few years later to try to get the same player

Same player at a much higher price in draft capital and salary cap allocation.

Fields hasn’t shown he’s worth that. As best we know he wins us a shyt division. Is that worth the investment? Me thinks not.

 

[Professor K.]

Is Fields performing at a level at his position the same as Parsons? He’s not and we all know it so analogy doesn’t apply.

It wasn't about level of play before, it was about them not acquiring a player because they didn't draft them initially. These moving goalposts got yall looking like Koo out here

 

[jay211]

Fields will be a star in a good organization. The Bears would be wise to trade the number 1 pick for a king's ransom, draft Marvin Harrison Jr, O-line, and defensive players.

 

[The ADD]

It wasn't about level of play before, it was about them not acquiring a player because they didn't draft them initially. These moving goalposts got yall looking like Koo out here

But why didn’t they acquire him initially and what makes it a good idea now when he will cost multiple draft picks and a 5th year option?

Please answers these questions relative to how an NFL FO works and don’t drift off into discussion of another player when this is about Fields.

 

[Professor K.]

But why didn’t they acquire him initially and what makes it a good idea now when he will cost multiple draft picks and a 5th year option?

Please answers these questions relative to how an NFL FO works and don’t drift off into discussion of another player when this is about Fields.

I've answered those questions in here multiple times, but, in summary:

We didn't draft him then because:

-We had a future HOFer coming off a 4,500 yard, 93.3 QB rating season
-It was the middle of the "Tom Brady is gonna play til he's 50 so all QBs should be good through at least 40" narrative
-FedEx Jr. probably thought he could come in and compete immediately
-Our meddling owner *might* have mandated we get Matt some help
-Our GM was hired from being over pro scouting, not college
-The 2020 COVID year was objectively terrible for scouting
-Ohio State runs a terrible system for evaluating QBs period

It makes sense to acquire him for a reasonable price now because:

-We need a QB right now
-We have a mostly rebuilt team that can compete immediately
-We don't have a lot of time for a rookie to develop(if they wanna keep their jobs)
-There's pro tape for our former pro scout-turnt-GM to analyze
-He fits the offense(as we understand it for now)
-He's made significant development and now just needs to be consistent
-He still fits the timeline of our core (as opposed to somebody like Cousins who we'd have to replace in like 2 years)
-He's gonna need a new deal but he's not gonna expect top 5 or maybe not even top 10 money

And last, but certainly not least

-REAL FRONT OFFICES DON'T REFUSE TO ACQUIRE PLAYERS JUST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PREVIOUSLY DRAFT THEM

 

[AVXL]

I agree with you, but it's obvious TF wasn't evaluating talent well then, being a rookie GM with no experience drafting while tryna scout college for the first time during COVID. I believe he has gotten better at his job(see this past draft) as well as this falling more into his area of expertise (pro scouting vs. college). Plus, for all we know, drafting a weapon might have been a mandate from Blank tryna help Matt ride into the sunset. The past is the past, and I hope they're not too prideful as to base future decisions on past ones. If that's their thought process, this whole situation is hopeless

Humor me real quick. Let's say, hypothetically, the Bears had traded up to 3 for Fields in 2021. Everything else plays out exactly the same. How does that change things for you?

It’s too many variables in this scenario TBH. I can’t go with you on Blank tryna do Matt a solid by getting Pitts, if we gonna keep it real the Pitts move in the Draft was to try to replace Julio who we ended up cutting later that summer. Then we put Matt in a hopeless situation in the first year of a rebuild with a rookie coach and FO only to have nearly get killed behind an awful line and terrible offense. We then disrespected Matt the following offseason with a failed pursuit of Deshaun Watson and shipped him to Indy. It was a total disaster. I say all that to say nothing that was done since we hired AS & TF was in service of Matt Ryan

And even with your scenario I don’t think Fields is a good QB. He’s a tremendous athlete who can flash potential as a passer but he’s too inconsistent as a passer from the pocket. So I’ve got multiple reasons why I don’t want him here, but where he got drafted, plus the compensation and draft picks needed to get him are two big reasons why I don’t want him

 

[The ADD]

I've answered those questions in here multiple times, but, in summary:

We didn't draft him then because:

-We had a future HOFer coming off a 4,500 yard, 93.3 QB rating season
-It was the middle of the "Tom Brady is gonna play til he's 50 so all QBs should be good through at least 40" narrative
-FedEx Jr. probably thought he could come in and compete immediately
-Our meddling owner *might* have mandated we get Matt some help
-Our GM was hired from being over pro scouting, not college
-The 2020 COVID year was objectively terrible for scouting
-Ohio State runs a terrible system for evaluating QBs period

It makes sense to acquire him for a reasonable price now because:

-We need a QB right now
-We have a mostly rebuilt team that can compete immediately
-We don't have a lot of time for a rookie to develop(if they wanna keep their jobs)
-There's pro tape for our former pro scout-turnt-GM to analyze
-He fits the offense(as we understand it for now)
-He's made significant development and now just needs to be consistent
-He still fits the timeline of our core (as opposed to somebody like Cousins who we'd have to replace in like 2 years)
-He's gonna need a new deal but he's not gonna expect top 5 or maybe not even top 10 money

And last, but certainly not least

-REAL FRONT OFFICES DON'T REFUSE TO ACQUIRE PLAYERS JUST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PREVIOUSLY DRAFT THEM

A lot of that makes no sense:

He’s shown nothing in the NFL that wasn’t evident in his tape in college. There wasn’t some gap in evaluation. So TF simply didn’t have anyone in the building that could evaluate a QB? That’s non-sense.

AS was in the room and didn’t push to have him. Now AS wants him at a significant higher investment when he’s basically the same player just with experience? Unlikely.

You assume he’s going be a reasonable price, he’s likely cost multiple picks in higher rounds.

You assume he’s not going to expect top 5-10 $. How do you know that.?

The same NFL FO that didn’t draft a player rarely if ever trades for that same player using significant draft capital and salary cap allocation. Especially at QB. Do you have one example of this?

All of your reasoning is skewed to thinking Fields is the solve. There is nothing to suggest that TF and AS now go 180 at a higher investment to acquire QB they didn’t want just a few years ago.

 

[Stone]

I’d only want Fields if Smith is staying which it looks like he is. Don’t wanna have a Matt Nagy situation with a rookie

 

[The ADD]

I’d only want Fields if Smith is staying which it looks like he is. Don’t wanna have a Matt Nagy situation with a rookie

What suggests he’s staying after yesterday?

 

[prime]

I don't think the Bears are going to let Fields go anyway, so it doesn't matter but you guys criticizing Fields are not taking into account who he has been throwing the ball to over his first few seasons. Fields has had Kmet for a couple of seasons but this is the first year that Fields has had a good outside target like DJ Moore. That is it. So Moore and Kmet is basically his entire receiving corps. Before this year Darnell Mooney was his top outside target. Darnell Mooney is alright but not to the level of DJ Moore.

Breh people don’t realize how bad the Bears roster was last season besides Darnell Mooney every other Bears receiver is either on the practice squad or out of the NFL who was on the roster last season and the oline was fukking.