Reverse Racism: (non gundumb edition)

[Brown_Pride]

u mad?
so far i've been nice about shyt but you look to be catching feelings.

When is the last time on these forums that you saw someone use the term CAC as anything other than a slur based on race intended to demean someone because they are part of a particular group of people who happen to be white. ?


It's not even about defending cracker, it's about pointing out the double standard, especially and most notably in these forums. (as per my original post)

At this point the only thing you've proven is that you:
a. get emotional when your words fail you.
b. have a hard time understanding definitions.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Ducktales. When was it decided to take the word back? Seams to me that even the term of endearment started when other black folks were calling other blackfolks nigg/er in a derogatory manner. Unless there’s some underground blacks only news letter that gets delivered to you directly this idea that “we decided to take it back” is a pretty story conjured up AFTER the fact.

this is all history I havnt made anything up. I gave you my opinion on the word and black people's use of the word. And you discredit it as ducktails then proceed to push your opinion. Why the fukk are you having the debate if your not open to others ideas and opinions, but your are always right. And how is it a pretty story conjured up AFTER the fact. Fact is your in the minority amongst black people in your opinion on this subject, and who are you to say millions of people are just making stuff up about their feelings.

It’s an acknowledgement of defeat. Quite literally “the man” has you effectively calling each other the very word he used to keep you down and you’re defending that under the guise of some type of “we taking it back” tip, which again is BS. You’re not taking shyt back, because guess who still has it and will always have it to use (hint: it’s white people). This is why I said the use of the word perpetuates racism.

No an acknowledgement of defeat would be to keep allowing ourselves to be degraded and discriminated against. Again you may not agree with it but to allot of people view this is as an aknowledgment of victory. "I won't let him keep me down with his words or his actions"

Again I never defended the word. I gave you reasons for why I think the word is used the way it is. I don't think in this day and age the word keeps anybody down maybe in the past but today no. I am a black man I have used the word and I have been called the word by both whites and blacks. Why can't I give you my opinion on the use of the word without you calling BS. The mentality of the use of the word is "I'm taking it back" and "I'm proud of all the so called nikkas before me".That's how i look at it, that's how I was always taught, You can disagree with the thinking behind it or the suspected outcome. But you can't call peoples feelings opinions and emotions bullshyt. Flawed maybe but bullshyt no. And if we quit complaining and pointing fingers and fighting each other over the word than it would have no power and their would be no reason for a white person to use it other than to expose their own ignorance.

And yet these words coming from the mouth of the same person that sits there and describes the horrible history behind the word. It’s funny because you cringe when you hear black folk using it but use it yourself. IN your heart of hearts you know the shyt is wrong, but you have literally been taught to keep yourself down at this point. It’s actually painful to me to see ANYONE defending this point for this reason. I mean FUK me, seriously this is just sad (I really mean this too). Every time I see a kid use this word I just know somewhere there’s some old white guy laughing his ass off. They don’t even need to beat you anymore you’re doing it to yourself.

This is where gets tricky. I know the history of the word and the hate associated with it. And I know the word is wrong, but I haven't been taught to keep myself down. I've been tought to prop myself up and stand tall as a strong black man. My ancestors were torn down by the word, and i have been propped up with it. If i teach my son the word is so bad and it is detrimental to your well being, than who knows how he will react the first time someone calls him a nikka. But if I can teach him a sense of pride for himself and his ancestors than the word wouldn't hurt him so much emotionally. I don't want him out mad and catching feelings cause of what some ignorant person might say. I can't have it both ways, I can't teach him to be strong and proud, but to ignore when white people call you this horrible word. So all I can tell him is to be proud of himself and his ancestors, and the word means nothing cause you know where you came from. It may sound stupid, and have flawed reasoning. But it is what it is. The history is so fukked up that not much about the situation makes sense. If MLK, Malcom X, George Washington carver were nikkas. Than that's not bad company and you can lump me with those guys and I'm proud of it. Cause I understand their worth and their place in history.

Like I said if you give up the endearment of the word nigg/er I will stfu about cracker…BUT you’d have to stop using nigg/er too, and ffs stop defending it.

Again I never defended the word. I don't think the word alone is a term of endearment, but some people do use it that way. In my post i said i was indifferent. On one hand i know the hate the word has perpetrated over the years, but at the same time i can't help but feel a sense of pride knowing who those people where before me that where called nikkas.

You obviously have a very closed minded stance on the issue, and that's ok your entitled to that. But don't come in here pretending you want to have a conversation when really you just want to assert your discontent for your own people. I think you do black people more of a disservice than racist whites trying to point the finger and call others wrong and reverse racist. You wanna talk about what the racist white man is really at home laughing about. Its us arguin back in forth about who can and can't use the word, while he doesn't even need the word to perpetrate his hate and racism anymore. The only way we can defeat racism is if we stand together, you push us apart with your finger pointing and hateful rhetoric. And I'm not sure of your backround or even if your black, but it's obvious you didn't grow up in the struggle so you might not understand the views of people who did or are still there.

Here is something you should ponder:

If we all stopped using the word ****** today, would hate and racism disapear tomorow? If the answer is no than how can you say the use of the word promotes racism?

 

[NoMayo15]

I didn't selectively do anything. I posted the definition of cracker myself. Just because it can be defined as a slur in a certain context doesn't make it a slur regardless of the context. You're just like that brown pride clown, you don't even seem to understand your own position. 1st you all were arguing that anytime someone refers to whites as crackers then theyre being racist, now you're falling back trying to make it about context. I've never denied that it can be used as an insult in a certain context. I'm arguing that the term itself is not an insult and certainly not a racist slur.

Great strawman. I never argued that. I'm done.

 

[Brown_Pride]

I didn't selectively do anything. I posted the definition of cracker myself. Just because it can be defined as a slur in a certain context doesn't make it a slur regardless of the context. You're just like that brown pride clown, you don't even seem to understand your own position. 1st you all were arguing that anytime someone refers to whites as crackers then theyre being racist, now you're falling back trying to make it about context. I've never denied that it can be used as an insult in a certain context. I'm arguing that the term itself is not an insult and certainly not a racist slur.

holy shyt man fukin read.
At this point you're arguing with yourself while claiming you're arguing with me and NoMayo.

THE WORD is a racist word.

THE WORD.
No where was I saying PEOPLE were racist, that's your misunderstanding. You keep trying to say someone called Clinton a racist because he used a racist word, no one is even saying that, the only one saying that is you. YOU are the one who brought up context, not me. I said nigg'er was racist regardless of context, you said it could be a term of endearment.

See how YOU are trying to contextualize, NOT me?

Hooked on Phonics® | Learn to Read with Award-Winning Educational Programs
step up your weight.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

But Meech, the word ****** originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people. The actual meaning WAS black person. It wasn't until much later that it became synonymous with the pejorative usage.

The word cracker is similar in that regard. It use to mean just southern white person, but now has a racist, offensive base behind it, and most reasonable people don't use it because it's an insult. I'm not saying they're equally just as offensive, but in certain contexts they can both be okay and not okay to say.

Says who

 

[Gravity]

u mad?
so far i've been nice about shyt but you look to be catching feelings.

When is the last time on these forums that you saw someone use the term CAC as anything other than a slur based on race intended to demean someone because they are part of a particular group of people who happen to be white. ?


It's not even about defending cracker, it's about pointing out the double standard, especially and most notably in these forums. (as per my original post)

At this point the only thing you've proven is that you:
a. get emotional when your words fail you.
b. have a hard time understanding definitions.

My words aren't failing me at all, you're the one that's whining. Obviously my words are starting to cause you to catch feelings. Cracker simply means white here. What you don't understand, is that being white is the dis. The dis isn't being called a cracker or cac, the dis is being white. The word cracker and cac could both be banned and these posters would make up another slang term to refer to white people. Again, it's not about the word at all. Cac is completely made up. You're being simple minded instead of using critical thinking skills. Your problem is with people's attitude towards white people, not with the word cracker.

holy shyt man fukin read.
At this point you're arguing with yourself while claiming you're arguing with me and NoMayo.

THE WORD is a racist word.

THE WORD.


No where was I saying PEOPLE were racist, that's your misunderstanding. You keep trying to say someone called Clinton a racist because he used a racist word, no one is even saying that, the only one saying that is you. YOU are the one who brought up context, not me. I said nigg'er was racist regardless of context, you said it could be a term of endearment.

See how YOU are trying to contextualize, NOT me?

Hooked on Phonics® | Learn to Read with Award-Winning Educational Programs
step up your weight.

the word is not racist you idiot. It didn't originate as a racist word and there is no history of racism associated with the word. It can be used as a slur in a certain context but that doesn't make the word racist. You've got to be the 1 of the dumbest people I've ever encountered. You're also a liar, I've never said anything about ****** being a term of endearment. Yes, I brought up context because that's the only way that cracker can be used as a slur. There's a reason that you don't see it defined as a disparaging term until 5-6 other definitions for the word are listed.

 

[Brown_Pride]

this is all history I havnt made anything up. I gave you my opinion on the word and black people's use of the word. And you discredit it as ducktails then proceed to push your opinion. Why the fukk are you having the debate if your not open to others ideas and opinions, but your are always right. And how is it a pretty story conjured up AFTER the fact. Fact is your in the minority amongst black people in your opinion on this subject, and who are you to say millions of people are just making stuff up about their feelings.

Because the narrative that “we took it back” is bs to me, yes that’s my opinion, not a fact. Looking at the HISTORY of the word the idea that “we took it back” is some after the fact shyt, there was no movement or direction to “take it back”. The word has evolved in many ways through normal usage, the idea that it was “taken back” or “flipped” sounds nice and powerful but fact of the matter is that word is still NOT in your hands, nothing has been taken back. It still means today what it meant years ago and that’s not a good thing.

No an acknowledgement of defeat would be to keep allowing ourselves to be degraded and discriminated against. Again you may not agree with it but to allot of people view this is as an aknowledgment of victory. "I won't let him keep me down with his words or his actions"

I get that and respect the choice people have to allow certain words to not hold power over them, IN MY OPINION the word is simply NOT a good word, period. There is nothing empowering about that word to me and I know I’m not black but there are many a black folk who don’t find that word to be empowering either.

Again I never defended the word. I gave you reasons for why I think the word is used the way it is. I don't think in this day and age the word keeps anybody down maybe in the past but today no. I am a black man I have used the word and I have been called the word by both whites and blacks. Why can't I give you my opinion on the use of the word without you calling BS. The mentality of the use of the word is "I'm taking it back" and "I'm proud of all the so called nikkas before me".That's how i look at it, that's how I was always taught, You can disagree with the thinking behind it or the suspected outcome. But you can't call peoples feelings opinions and emotions bullshyt. Flawed maybe but bullshyt no. And if we quit complaining and pointing fingers and fighting each other over the word than it would have no power and their would be no reason for a white person to use it other than to expose their own ignorance.

fair enough then I apologize for pissing on your opinion of the word, I read it as a statement of fact, my bad.

This is where gets tricky. I know the history of the word and the hate associated with it. And I know the word is wrong, but I haven't been taught to keep myself down. I've been tought to prop myself up and stand tall as a strong black man. My ancestors were torn down by the word, and i have been propped up with it.

OK, this is the “reconciliation” I was curious about. So in your eyes/experience being called/using the word “nikka” has helped prop you up? I

If i teach my son the word is so bad and it is detrimental to your well being, than who knows how he will react the first time someone calls him a nikka. But if I can teach him a sense of pride for himself and his ancestors than the word wouldn't hurt him so much emotionally. I don't want him out mad and catching feelings cause of what some ignorant person might say. I can't have it both ways, I can't teach him to be strong and proud, but to ignore when white people call you this horrible word. So all I can tell him is to be proud of himself and his ancestors, and the word means nothing cause you know where you came from. It may sound stupid, and have flawed reasoning. But it is what it is. The history is so fukked up that not much about the situation makes sense. If MLK, Malcom X, George Washington carver were nikkas. Than that's not bad company and you can lump me with those guys and I'm proud of it. Cause I understand their worth and their place in history.

I think you should teach your son to be proud, is calling him a lil nikka doing that? It sounds like your reasoning is to try to deflate the word do you think it waters down the horribleness of it? When your son is older and he’s flinging around the word nikka like it’s no big deal, like most kids do today do you think he’ll really know what it means? There’s the danger in this IMHO. Once you change a words meaning you tend to forget why it’s important, it would be a fuggin travesty (to me) if that word were to mean anything other than what it means. It’s an ugly word, it represents ugliness and hatred, ignorance and pain I see no benefit in helping to keep that word alive.

Again I never defended the word. I don't think the word alone is a term of endearment, but some people do use it that way. In my post i said i was indifferent. On one hand i know the hate the word has perpetrated over the years, but at the same time i can't help but feel a sense of pride knowing who those people where before me that where called nikkas.

just trying to understand this here then. SO when someone calls you a nigg’er you feel a sense of comradery with what? MLK, Malcom, etc? Doesn’t that seem like a strange banner to rally under? You know I’ve told my kids when someone is trying to make fun of you the best thing you can do is agree with them because usually people do that to get a rise out of you and when you deflate the rise they tend to shut up. IS that how you would view this word?

You obviously have a very closed minded stance on the issue, and that's ok your entitled to that. But don't come in here pretending you want to have a conversation when really you just want to assert your discontent for your own people. I think you do black people more of a disservice than racist whites trying to point the finger and call others wrong and reverse racist.

As far as discussing maybe I circled the wagons a bit. My stance remains, cracker is a racist term as is nigg’er. I’d say the same thing concerning your assertions though. So there are two argument here
1. the use of nigg’er
2. the use of cracker.

On 1 I can see your side and perhaps why you see it as you do
On 2,…. You clearly see a difference in the two words BUT are ok with both of them?

You wanna talk about what the racist white man is really at home laughing about. Its us arguin back in forth about who can and can't use the word, while he doesn't even need the word to perpetrate his hate and racism anymore. The only way we can defeat racism is if we stand together, you push us apart with your finger pointing and hateful rhetoric. And I'm not sure of your backround or even if your black, but it's obvious you didn't grow up in the struggle so you might not understand the views of people who did or are still there.

Nope not black, hispanic, ironically I’ve been called nigg’er and such. I don’t agree that discussing words and the overall “message” being sent as something the wm is laughing at, if we can discuss and build (admittedly things get ugly sometimes in that process, as they should when discussing things people are passionate about) then that’s more fearful in my estimation than entertaining for “the man” particularly when it is a black and brown person discussing things. Background: I grew up in the PJ then moved to the ghetto. I live in one of the most back aswards states (Arizona). I’m read, taught, studied, and such concerning race and race relations, went to college in the mid west, came back home. Have a family. What more do you want to know to establish my credentials?

Here is something you should ponder:

If we all stopped using the word ****** today, would hate and racism disapear tomorow? If the answer is no than how can you say the use of the word promotes racism?

I’d answer with. Should we just stop fighting racism since it’ll never go away? Or should we make the small moves it takes to reteach an entire country so that our small moves can be built upon. Complacency in the struggle for equality, IMHO, is one of the most dangerous things.

 

[Brown_Pride]

My words aren't failing me at all, you're the one that's whining. Obviously my words are starting to cause you to catch feelings. Cracker simply means white here. What you don't understand, is that being white is the dis. The dis isn't being called a cracker or cac, the dis is being white. The word cracker and cac could both be banned and these posters would make up another slang term to refer to white people. Again, it's not about the word at all. Cac is completely made up. You're being simple minded instead of using critical thinking skills. Your problem is with people's attitude towards white people, not with the word cracker.the word is not racist you idiot. It didn't originate as a racist word and there is no history of racism associated with the word. It can be used as a slur in a certain context but that doesn't make the word racist. You've got to be the 1 of the dumbest people I've ever encountered. You're also a liar, I've never said anything about ****** being a term of endearment. Yes, I brought up context because that's the only way that cracker can be used as a slur. There's a reason that you don't see it defined as a disparaging term until 5-6 other definitions for the word are listed.

My words aren't failing me at all, you're the one that's whining. Obviously my words are starting to cause you to catch feelings. Cracker simply means white here. What you don't understand, is that being white is the dis. The dis isn't being called a cracker or cac, the dis is being white. The word cracker and cac could both be banned and these posters would make up another slang term to refer to white people. Again, it's not about the word at all. Cac is completely made up. You're being simple minded instead of using critical thinking skills. Your problem is with people's attitude towards white people, not with the word cracker.

What you don’t understand is that dissing someone because of their race is…RACIST. Cac YES is a made up word, but it holds meaning. Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinate of human traits, the word cracker is a reference to poor white people.

the word is not racist you idiot. It didn't originate as a racist word and there is no history of racism associated with the word. It can be used as a slur in a certain context but that doesn't make the word racist. You've got to be the 1 of the dumbest people I've ever encountered. You're also a liar, I've never said anything about ****** being a term of endearment. Yes, I brought up context because that's the only way that cracker can be used as a slur. There's a reason that you don't see it defined as a disparaging term until 5-6 other definitions for the word are listed.

well fuk man by your standards there NEVER will be because the word CANNOT be used in a racial manner, it’s just bad taste. In your eyes how could the term “cracker” become racist?

As for “history” the term originated as a deaming word, per wiki:
“:I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode.”

Doesn’t sound endearing to me.

 

[Gravity]

What you don’t understand is that dissing someone because of their race is…RACIST. Cac YES is a made up word, but it holds meaning. Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinate of human traits, the word cracker is a reference to poor white people. Thats an incomplete definition you liar. Here's the complete definition of racism:

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

You gon try to leave off the part where it says that racism is the belief that the differences in race produce an inherent superiority because you know that cracker doesn't fit. You're a joke.

well fuk man by your standards there NEVER will be because the word CANNOT be used in a racial manner, it’s just bad taste. In your eyes how could the term “cracker” become racist? ive never said that cracker can't be used in a racial manner, any term can be used in a racial context. The term "white" can be used as a racial slur in the right context. "fukk you white boy. You aint shyt white boy. You smell like dog white boy".

As for “history” the term originated as a deaming word, per wiki:
“:I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode.”

Doesn’t sound endearing to me.Thats just one theory of its origin, and even in that context it's not a racial term. Even in that context it's a mild insult at best. "...a name they got for being great boasters" ooooooohhhh what a demeaning insult. The horror and disrespect that comes with being described as a "great boaster". I don't know how white people overcame. Just shut up want to be white boy.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Because the narrative that “we took it back” is bs to me, yes that’s my opinion, not a fact. Looking at the HISTORY of the word the idea that “we took it back” is some after the fact shyt, there was no movement or direction to “take it back”. The word has evolved in many ways through normal usage, the idea that it was “taken back” or “flipped” sounds nice and powerful but fact of the matter is that word is still NOT in your hands, nothing has been taken back. It still means today what it meant years ago and that’s not a good thing.

I understand your position, but I disagree the word is in my hands and it can't hurt me unless I let it.

I get that and respect the choice people have to allow certain words to not hold power over them, IN MY OPINION the word is simply NOT a good word, period. There is nothing empowering about that word to me and I know I’m not black but there are many a black folk who don’t find that word to be empowering either.

If you have never been empowered by the word than you will never understand those that have. I can honestly tell you I have and it felt great cause I felt great about myself regardless of what other people said

OK, this is the “reconciliation” I was curious about. So in your eyes/experience being called/using the word “nikka” has helped prop you up? I

I think you should teach your son to be proud, is calling him a lil nikka doing that? It sounds like your reasoning is to try to deflate the word do you think it waters down the horribleness of it? When your son is older and he’s flinging around the word nikka like it’s no big deal, like most kids do today do you think he’ll really know what it means? There’s the danger in this IMHO. Once you change a words meaning you tend to forget why it’s important, it would be a fuggin travesty (to me) if that word were to mean anything other than what it means. It’s an ugly word, it represents ugliness and hatred, ignorance and pain I see no benefit in helping to keep that word alive.

I wouldn't say being called nikka proped me up. But being told about my ancestors and that I was the same as them gave me a sense of pride so I can prop myself up everytime i hear the word. Nahh calling my son lil nikka isn't teaching him pride, at least not right now he's only 2. And I understand this, the word has been engraved in my vocabulary for better or worse. Actually my wife hates for me call him that or even say it around our kids, but she says the word all the time too. The shyts mad complicated and fukked up I know, and that's why I said you can't compare nikka to any other word. And I don't think by saying the word we change the meaning, i think it is a reminder and we should never forget the word or let it die cause then we run the risk of repeating history.

just trying to understand this here then. SO when someone calls you a nigg’er you feel a sense of comradery with what? MLK, Malcom, etc? Doesn’t that seem like a strange banner to rally under? You know I’ve told my kids when someone is trying to make fun of you the best thing you can do is agree with them because usually people do that to get a rise out of you and when you deflate the rise they tend to shut up. IS that how you would view this word?

Pretty much It is strange but the history is strange. If MLK was a nikka I'm proud to be one

Nope not black, hispanic, ironically I’ve been called nigg’er and such. I don’t agree that discussing words and the overall “message” being sent as something the wm is laughing at, if we can discuss and build (admittedly things get ugly sometimes in that process, as they should when discussing things people are passionate about) then that’s more fearful in my estimation than entertaining for “the man” particularly when it is a black and brown person discussing things. Background: I grew up in the PJ then moved to the ghetto. I live in one of the most back aswards states (Arizona). I’m read, taught, studied, and such concerning race and race relations, went to college in the mid west, came back home. Have a family. What more do you want to know to establish my credentials?

Ahhh, well I can better understand your stance then. You've seen both sides if the coin. Im sure you've been through some sort of racism, but your people have a very different history and strugle than mine. If you where not raised to have a sense of pride about the word than I can understand why you see it as a horrible word. I can't disagree with you on that. And it wasn't about establishing your credentials. It was more just to get a sense of where your coming from. I think the conversation goes better that way.

I’d answer with. Should we just stop fighting racism since it’ll never go away? Or should we make the small moves it takes to reteach an entire country so that our small moves can be built upon. Complacency in the struggle for equality, IMHO, is one of the most dangerous things.

I agree with your statement but in my opinion fighting words isn't really fighting racism. We should concentrate on the effects that racism has on the world. We can all see from this thread that people don't change their opinions very easily. So the real fight should be against real discrimination. And making sure everyone has a fair chance regardless of people's words or opinions. And in this day and age that fight isn't between black and white anymore, its between rich and poor.

 

[RugbyMan]

 

[daze23]

 

[Constantine]

@Brown PrideI find it funny that you want to talk about black people using derogatory language when you have Latins denigrating blacks on the-coli. DStyles, who is Mexican, is a perfect example http://www.the-coli.com/locker-room/125361-spin-all-my-spanish-brehs-get-here-no-ingles.html#.UcxHX5zNk0h
Scroll down to his post and you'll see he uses the term prietos as a pejorative.
That's one of the more milder things he's said about black people. I'm black, and don't use any of this sort of language, but trying to hold black people responsible for language that some of us use is like us holding you accountable for the language that people like DStyles uses, and other Latins use to denigrate blacks.

 

[Dirty Mcdrawz]

i've never seen a white person try to punch someone for calling them a cracker. now honkey and racist them fighting words

 

[Blackking]

I used to be defensive about the racial attacks on sohh (first they thought I was white, then east asian) and not be explicit about my ethnicity but I guess at some point I was kinda like what am I going to do, be born a different person? like it's not a valid criticism lol

What are you? I always understand peoples points better and like the poster better once I find out their race or ethnicity, regardless of what race it is. There are things that I would get upset if a black person said that I would be like 'figures.. shrug' if a white person said.. and V Verse