Refuting the myth that Black American music/culture is "Europeanized".
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IllmaticDelta
Veteran
Exactly! Cubans are famous for beating the clave beat in most of their music so it's associated with them but that beat is pan-AfroNewWorld because of shared african ancestry. What we call BoDiddley or Hambone is native to the USA and not an import from Cuba.
next people are going to say the dembow-like beat (another pan-AfroNewWorld beat) you hear in the ringshouts of the sea islands are from the carib
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Exactly! Cubans are famous for beating the clave beat in most of their music so it's associated with them but that beat is pan-AfroNewWorld because of shared african ancestry. What he called BoDiddley or Hambone is native to the USA and not an import from Cuba.
next people are going to say the dembow-like beat (another pan-AfroNewWorld beat) you hear in the ringshouts of the sea islands are from the carib
Exactly, we might as well take credit for call-and-response style music found in Martinique and the Dominican Republic if that's the case since CnR is largely associated with African-American music.
Oceanicpuppy
Superstar
Hey @KidStranglehold I found a study you might like about african origins of Americans, I don't know if you've already seen. Warning: very long
http://genomebiology.com/2009/10/12/r141 link for tables and entire study
http://genomebiology.com/2009/10/12/r141 link for tables and entire study
Characterizing the admixed African ancestry of African Americans
- *Corresponding author: Neil Risch rischn@humgen.ucsf.edu
In this study, we characterize the African origins of African Americans by making use of the high-density genotype data generated for 94 HGDP indigenous Africans from differing geographic and linguistic groups, including 21 Mandenka from West Africa, 21 Yoruba from West Central Africa, 15 Bantu speakers from Southwestern and Eastern Africa, 20 Biaka Pygmy and 12 Mbuti Pygmy from Central Africa, and five San from Southern Africa 18]. These subjects are used to represent the potential African ancestors of 136 African Americans recently genotyped in a GWA study of early-onset coronary artery disease (ADVANCE) 19]. In addition, we include 38 U.S. Caucasian subjects from ADVANCE to represent the European ancestors of the African Americans.
These results were confirmed in the estimation of IA by using the program frappe (also in Figure 1). The amount of European ancestry shows considerable variation, with an average (± SD) of 21.9% ± 12.2%, and a range of 0 to 72% (Table 1). The largest African ancestral contribution comes from the Yoruba, with an average of 47.1% ± 8.7% (range, 18% to 64%), followed by the Bantu at 14.8% ± 5.0% (range, 3% to 28%) and Mandenka at 13.8% ± 4.5% (range, 3% to 29%). The contributions from the other three African groups were quite modest, with an average of 1.7% from the Biaka, 0.5% from the Mbuti, and 0.3% from the San. In the bar plot of frappe estimates, individuals (vertical bars) are arranged in order (left to right) corresponding to their value on the first PC coordinate. Clearly, this order correlates nearly perfectly with a decreasing proportion of European ancestry (Figure S1 in Additional file 1). Thus, the most important source of genetic structure in African Americans is based on the degree of European admixture.
Table 1. Estimates of European ancestry and proportional African ancestries in African Americans by US region of birth
African components of ancestry in African Americans
ds).
As a validation of the accuracy of this partitioning procedure, we performed PCA on the combined set of U.S. Caucasians, Africans, and the African Americans with putative non-African-derived genotypes removed (that is, coded as missing). For comparison, we also examined the results of the same analysis, but including all of the genotype data of the African Americans. For these analyses, we included only the three African population groups that, based on the first analysis, contributed significantly to the African Americans (the Mandenka, Yoruba, and Bantu). As shown previously, when all genotypes are included, the African Americans lie intermediate between the Africans and European Americans, at varying distances based on their degree of admixture (Figure 2a).
(a) all genotypes, and (b) only the genotypes of African origin in the African Americans. Comparison of (a) and (b) demonstrates the effective elimination of the European ancestry component from African Americans by using saber.
We then characterized the African ancestry in African Americans by performing PCA and estimating IA with frappe by using the U.S. Caucasians, Africans, and African Americans, with non-African genotypes removed. To determine whether we could distinguish the African populations from one another, we first ran frappe including all the 94 African individuals (setting K = 6). This unsupervised analysis unambiguously separated the San and Pygmy populations from the West Africans and, to a lesser degree, the three West African populations (Yoruba, Mandenka, and Bantu). To be confident in the groupings of the West African population, we performed a series of leave-one-out frappe analyses that include 57 individuals from the three West African populations: in each frappe run, we fixed all individual within their respective populations except for one, whose ancestry was allowed to be admixed and estimated (see Methods). Results are given in Figure S2 in Additional file 1. The close genetic relationship of these three groups is evidenced by the imperfect ancestry allocation to an individual's own population. However, in every case, frappe assigns the majority ancestry to an individual's own population, and in most cases, the large majority. The Bantu appear to have closest ancestry to the Yoruba. This is consistent with the Nigerian origins of the Yoruba and the presumed origins of the Bantu from the southwestern modern boundary of Nigeria and Cameroon 24], and the subsequent migration of the Bantu east and south 5,25].
Figure 3 displays the PCA results of the African Americans and the three closely related African populations (Yoruba, Mandenka, and Bantu). Several features are worth comment. First, despite their genetic similarity, PCA shows clear separation among the Yoruba, Mandenka, and Bantu populations, based on the first two PCs. Second, Figure 3 reveals that the African Americans are placed as a single cluster in the convex hull defined by the three African groups.
Figure 3. Principal components analysis of three West and Central West African populations (Mandenka, Yoruba, and Bantu) and African Americans by using only African-origin genotypes in the African Americans.
Figure 4. Individual ancestry estimates in African Americans by using only their African genotypes, from a supervised structure analysis with frappe, including all six African populations and U.S. Caucasians as fixed (K = 7). Color coding of populations is the same as that in Figure 1.
Table 1 provides the averages and standard deviations of IA derived from the frappe analysis described earlier (Figure 4) for the African components of African ancestry for the 128 African Americans. Overall, we estimate within-Africa contributions of 64%, 19%, and 14% from Yoruba, Mandenka, and Bantu, respectively. The variances for the various African IA components are much smaller than those for the European IA and are roughly similar across groups (SD ranging from 0.038 to 0.049). These observations are consistent with visual inspection of the bar chart in Figure 4, that African Americans generally derive substantial ancestry from all three West and Central West African population groups. We also note from Table 1 that no significant differences exist among African-American subgroups defined by U.S. region of birth, in terms of IA estimates for any African ancestral component, nor are any significant differences in IA found, based on gender (data not shown).
Discussion
Another study of mtDNA haplotypes in African Americans and different African populations found that more than 50% of the African-American mtDNAs exactly matched common haplotypes shared among multiple African ethnic groups, whereas 40% matched no sequences in the African database they referenced 26]. Fewer than 10% of African-American mtDNA haplotypes matched exactly to a single African ethnic group. The haplotypes that did match were more often found in ethnic groups of West African or Central West African than of East or South African origin.
The most extensive examination of mtDNA haplotypes in Africans and African Americans 13] used mtDNA data from a large number of African ethnic groups spread around the continent. These authors observed large similarities in mtDNA profiles among ethnic groups from West, Central West, and South West Africa, with a continuous geographic gradient. As observed previously 26], these authors also found that many mtDNA haplotypes were widely distributed across Africa, making it impossible to trace African ancestry to a particular region or group, based on mtDNA data alone. These authors also estimated the proportionate ancestry within Africa based on African American mtDNA haplotypes as 60% from West Africa, 9% from Central West Africa, 30% from South West Africa, and minimal ancestry from North, East, Southeast, or South Africa.
These studies all suggest close genetic kinship among various West African, Central West African, and South West African ethnic groups. A prior analysis of genetic structure among the African populations included in the HGDP based on 377 autosomal STR loci was able to define distinct genetic clusters for the Biaka, Mbuti, and San; however, the study lacked the power to differentiate the Mandenka, Yoruba, and Bantu groups 27]. Similarly, another study examining two ethnic groups from Ghana (Akan and Gaa-Adangbe) and two from Nigeria (Yoruba, Igbo), based on 372 autosomal microsatellite markers in 493 individuals, did not differentiate these groups by genetic cluster analysis and found only modest genetic differences between them 28].In contrast, greater resolution of African ethnic groups, particularly for the Mandenka and Yoruba, was possible in our analysis, based on more than 450,000 SNPs. We note that, in a recent study of malaria, PCA distinguished the HapMap YRI individuals from the Mandenka individuals in the Gambian sample on the basis of 100,715 SNPs; however, admixture analysis with a few selected markers did not reveal clear clusters that correspond to self-reported ancestry 29].
It is of interest to compare our African admixture estimates to descriptions of proportional representation of various African groups to the Middle Passage and slave trade occurring in post-Columbian America. A highly detailed census based on historic records has been documented by several authors 10-12]. Africans were deported from numerous locations along the broad western coast of Africa, ranging from Senegal in the far west all the way down to Angola in the southwest. In addition, a smaller number of slaves were taken from the southeast of Africa. In terms of numbers, the largest group, approximately 50% to 60%, derived from Central and Southern West Africa and the Bight of Biafra; approximately 10% from Western Africa; 25% to 35% from the West Coast in between (Windward Coast, Gold Coast, and Bight of Benin), and the remaining 5% from Southeast Africa 7]. These estimates show considerable consistency with our results, which also indicated the largest ancestral component of African Americans to be from Central West Africa, followed by West Africa and Southwest Africa. However, because we did not have groups representative of Southeastern and other parts of Southern Africa, we may have underestimated their ancestral representation among African Americans.
It is important to note that considerable migration has occurred among African ethnic groups over the past three millennia or more. For example, the two Bantu groups included in our analysis originated from a more-central African location (Nigeria-Cameroon) several millennia ago, making precise geographic localization of African ancestry difficult 30]. This difficulty is also reflected in the close genetic relationships among the various West, West Central, and South West African groups, who also show considerable overlap in terms of mtDNA haplotypes.
The results of our analysis also strongly point to random mating among African Americans with respect to the African components of their ancestry. This is reflected both by the modest variances we observed in the African IA components, and also by the lack of structure in the PC analysis of African Americans with non-African genotypes removed. This conclusion is consistent with the idea that, for most African Americans, specific African origins are mixed or unknown or both and do not affect social characteristics that influence the choice of mate. It is also consistent with the notion that the African slaves brought to North America were mixed with regard to their geographic and ethnic ancestry and language 32]. By contrast, considerably greater variation in the proportion of European ancestry was found within the African Americans in our study. This high level of variation in European ancestry may reflect recent admixture or nonrandom mating (for example, as seen in Latino populations 33]), or both; these questions require additional study.
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I disagree with your statement on music. Black American music evokes a wide range of emotions not found in traditional African music. African music is almost exclusively upbeat and happy, whereas genres like Jazz and Blues elicit emotions ranging from happiness to weariness to subtle melancholy. Some Gospel music is downright depressing. This aspect of black American music is definitely Western in origin.
However, you're right that black Americans have our own distinct culture and that it's more African than people know. It annoys me that people think urban culture/hip hop and pop culture is "black culture".
However, you're right that black Americans have our own distinct culture and that it's more African than people know. It annoys me that people think urban culture/hip hop and pop culture is "black culture".
@Canadadry
I already seen that study and thanks. To me the studies vary. African Americans with the most Nigerian admixture/ancestry seem to be from the DMV area.
I already seen that study and thanks. To me the studies vary. African Americans with the most Nigerian admixture/ancestry seem to be from the DMV area.
Where is proof that all African music is "happy". Africa is a large continent itself. Prior to black influence on American music, there was no western styles that were similar to Blues/Jazz. Meanwhile there are many traits of blues found in the Sahel region of Africa.
The Dust King
A Childrens Story
I see what you saying but, I think Black music is going through a change, and its getting better if you embrace the change. For instance, the Quality is getting better, in terms of sonics. When you look at how things sound now, compared to one point in time, shyt is lovely! That Kendrick Lemar album(G.K.B.K.), and Asap sound, helped usher in "Trapped" music. Trapped music is going to blow up in the future, I can see it coming. This is a recent example of the Black American sound creating other forms of GREAT music.
We got style kid, its in us!
@ When people come with this bias observation based on a stereotypical idea of what "African music" is suppose to sound like and then project that on to African-American music to come to the flawed conclusion that African-American music must not be derived from African styles, because it doesn't fit into what they've typecast as "African sounding music". Even more erroneous is that this guy hears a "western sound" as if Leadbelly or Son House really gives off that Bach or Beethoven feel.Edit: Looking at his reputations points, I can see that this is clearly a poster that should be taken with a grain of salt.
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K.O.N.Y
Superstar
Exactly! Cubans are famous for beating the clave beat in most of their music so it's associated with them but that beat is pan-AfroNewWorld because of shared african ancestry. What we call BoDiddley or Hambone is native to the USA and not an import from Cuba.
Breh do you have a degree in African American music or some shyt. Never seen a dude who had all the carfax, receipts and empirical evidence on this shyt like you do
Edit: Looking at his reputations points, I can see that this is clearly a poster that should be taken with a grain of salt.
Ummm...no need to get your panties in a bunch. It's well known that traditional African music (meaning that which doesn't have influences from Europe or elsewhere) is up beat and happy. It typically does not evoke a wide range of emotions. If you believe otherwise, then provide some evidence. Don't whine like a little hoe.
Go to any rural area of Africa where people play traditional African music.
Modern African music, e.g. Afrobeats, popular in many urban parts of West Africa, has influences from other regions. It's still distinctly African though, and it's more upbeat than most black American genres. You can't find me an African genre that evokes sadness to the degree that some black American genres do. Not even close. Is that a bad thing? I guess that depends on how you look at it.
The fact that you think there's a "traditional African musical" style that always fits in a box of whatever you consider to be "happy and upbeat" pretty much confirms that I'm dealing with an uninformed troll probably just trying to get his post count up. I don't know what kind of "emotions" you feel when you listen to whatever music, as that's largely subjective(not to mention you sound emotionally unstable to begin with). But, just for shyts and giggles I'll isolate some of the key traits of African-American music for you.............
Blues scale- African in Orgin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues_scale
12-bar chord progressions- African in Origin
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/otherbluesprogs.html
Microtonal music(Forbidden in classical European music theory)- African in Origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtonal_music#Terminology
http://sopranosaxtalk.blogspot.com/2013/02/microtonality-and-blues.html
Three chord progression- African in orgin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression#Three-chord_progressions
Cyclic music structures- African in Origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_(music)
Using Ostinato patterns as a basis for improvisation.- African in Origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostinato
Offbeat syncopation- West African rhythmic concept
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(music)#On-beat_and_off-beat
Swing rhythm- African in origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_(jazz_performance_style)
Call & Response- African in origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_and_response_(music)
Homophonic Parallelism Singing(forbidden in European harmonic theory)- African in Origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophony#African_and_Asian_music
Lets see what clever troll response awaits me.
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Says the guy that probably couldn't even point out "Gambia" on a map and probably thinks Africa is a country, let alone be versed in in music theory of the wide range on styles on the whole continent.
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I didn't say that black American music has no influences from Africa. I'm well aware of the fact that Jazz, Blues, etc. contain many African elements. The thing is, they also contain European elements, one of which is expressing sadness/sorrow to a degree not found in traditional African music. Learn to read before you quote me again hoe.
I'm not gonna go back and fourth with a smart dumb nikka who purposefully misinterprets things so that he can win an argument.