'Real Time with Bill Maher' is so awful now

[mastermind]

I know I'm replying and you weren't talking to me, but I think there's a lot of truth in that bolded. If policies and bills are put into place that substantially help peoples' lives, they will vote for the people that put those laws into place.

I'm a little tired of the culture war shyt, and I feel like it sometime deflects away from more policy and more substantive talk. People are more vulnerable to voting for culture war bullshyt and appeals to their bigoted tendencies when their lives are worse. And being bigoted is wrong. Flat out. Having an awful life is no excuse. It does make bigots worse, though.

I truly think substantive change for the working class in this country and progressive policies would expand the base and bring more people away from the right (even if slowly but surely).

The Democrat Establishment know this, but they are a conservative party so they don't care. They like playing the culture war games too because it means they don't have to do anything to make peoples lives better.

 

[Robbie3000]

In 2021, most White people don't even live in communities with a meaningful number of Black folk. What % of White people do you believe are so hateful and self-destructive that you think they would destroy their own lives solely to "own the blacks" that they don't even see on a daily basis?

Not just what % are racist. But what % are so overwhelmingly racist they would fukk over their own family to pursue that racism.

I'm not denying the type you suggest exists. But be specific for a moment - what % of White people do you think it includes?

I don't know the percentage, but it's quite clear that the only people getting material benefits from GOP economic policies are corporations and the well to do. The middle class GOP voters vote against their own self interests all the time. They've been doing this since the Reagan administration.

They destroyed the social safety net because of black "welfare queens". They supported austerity during the 2008 crash because they believe any government spending is taking money out of white people's pockets and giving it to undeserving minorities. That's why the recovery was so slow.

I could go on and on, but I think my point is obvious.

 

[mastermind]

I don't know the percentage, but it's quite clear that the only people getting material benefits from GOP economic policies are corporations and the well to do. The middle class GOP voters vote against their own self interests all the time. They've been doing this since the Reagan administration.

They destroyed the social safety net because of black "welfare queens". They supported austerity during the 2008 crash because they believe any government spending is taking money out of white people's pockets and giving it to undeserving minorities. That's why the recovery was so slow.

I could go on and on, but I think my point is obvious.

Most people who vote for the Democratic Party are also voting against their own economic interests.

If we don't start making class-based arguments to form coalitions with poor and working-class people of all races, then we are fukked.

 

[Robbie3000]

Most people who vote for the Democratic Party are also voting against their own economic interests.

If we don't start making class-based arguments to form coalitions with poor and working-class people of all races, then we are fukked.

There are many material benefits that the Dem party fights for...SS, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, etc.

These programs were passed and are protected by Democrats, but Trump still won white seniors and white people making less than $50K by ten percentage points. The same people these programs were designed to help.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I don't know the percentage, but it's quite clear that the only people getting material benefits from GOP economic policies are corporations and the well to do. The middle class GOP voters vote against their own self interests all the time. They've been doing this since the Reagan administration.

They destroyed the social safety net because of black "welfare queens". They supported austerity during the 2008 crash because they believe any government spending is taking money out of white people's pockets and giving it to undeserving minorities. That's why the recovery was so slow.

I could go on and on, but I think my point is obvious.

It's a huge stretch to claim those actions are both solely due to race and immutable positions that can't be overcome.

And if you base your position on the 2008 crash then my counter is easy. A minority of non-rich white people did push for austerity, but the # who just plain wanted the bread was so large it pushed Obama to the biggest landslide win of the last 35 years and gave the Dems a supermajority in the Senate. And that was in the era when folk still thought that Obama was a true liberal with a black radical for a pastor.

This shyt ain't immutable. There are plenty of folk who can be convinced to vote in their self-interest if it's sold to them correctly. The stalwart racists who obey the scorpion and frog metaphor are there, but they're not a majority. Biggest issue is that people don't believe the democratic establishment is actually concerned with their welfare, and often they're right. A non-racist populist party that fought for the poor, working-class, and middle-class over the rich while shelving most cultural issues to the side would dominate with the "average Joe" voter, it's just the donors and establishment politicians who keep them from climbing the ranks.

 

[mastermind]

There are many material benefits that the Dem party fights for...SS, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, etc.

These programs were passed and are protected by Democrats, but Trump still won white seniors and white people making less than $50K by ten percentage points. The same people these programs were designed to help.

Obama was willing to cut Social Security and Biden has proposed it several times in the past, so don't say that.

Both parties work for the top 10% of American society. The key is to start making that case. If we say that certain segments of the working place class are irredeemable then we are fukked because working-class and lower-income black people ain't winning on their own.

 

[Robbie3000]

It's a huge stretch to claim those actions are both solely due to race and immutable positions that can't be overcome.

And if you base your position on the 2008 crash then my counter is easy. A minority of non-rich white people did push for austerity, but the # who just plain wanted the bread was so large it pushed Obama to the biggest landslide win of the last 35 years and gave the Dems a supermajority in the Senate. And that was in the era when folk still thought that Obama was a true liberal with a black radical for a pastor.

This shyt ain't immutable. There are plenty of folk who can be convinced to vote in their self-interest if it's sold to them correctly. The stalwart racists who obey the scorpion and frog metaphor are there, but they're not a majority. Biggest issue is that people don't believe the democratic establishment is actually concerned with their welfare, and often they're right. A non-racist populist party that fought for the poor, working-class, and middle-class over the rich while shelving most cultural issues to the side would dominate with the "average Joe" voter, it's just the donors and establishment politicians who keep them from climbing the ranks.

Given the long history of race in this country, I don’t see this happening. The GOP would turn any issue that addresses real issues important to non whites into a culture issue.

You can forget about Voting Rights, affirmative action, police reform, etc.

I hope I’m wrong for the sake of this country, but I know too much about the history of this country and the role that race has played in where we are today.

 

[Robbie3000]

Obama was willing to cut Social Security and Biden has proposed it several times in the past, so don't say that.

Both parties work for the top 10% of American society. The key is to start making that case. If we say that certain segments of the working place are irredeemable then we are fukked because working-class and lower-income black people ain't winning on their own.

I don’t see this ever happening. I still maintain that any economic progressive policy that helps everyone will be framed as a taking away from hardworking white people and giving it to lazy undeserving minorities.

Getting rid of the filibuster, demographic changes and at some point changing how seats in the senate are allocated is how we get shyt done.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I don’t think you all understand that majority of right wing white people would rather live in destitution rather than share resources with “undeserving” minorities.

Look at the FDR consensus of 1940-1970. Yeah Dixiecrats we’re willing to go along with progressive policies as long as they were left alone to keep their foot on our necks. They bolted from the party and embraced Nixon and Raegan as a backlash to the passing of the Civil War.

Go back 150 years. Majority of white people had no business fighting and dying to preserve slavery. The institution was harmful to the typical white person. But they were more than happy to be cannon fodder for the landed gentry who treated them with disdain.

These people value whiteness above everything else. All the culture war issues they care about are a representation or a political substitute of that whiteness. (2nd amendment, abortion, anti immigration, CRT, blue lives matter etc.)

Read this book called “Why we can’t have nice things”. The author lays it out better than I can.

its even worse than i realized.

Theres all this talk about "polarization" without realizing that the time that senators and representatives miss of going out and grabbing drinks was a time when they didn't have to think about black people nationally. Of course "both sides got along"...they had no choice!

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

In 2021, most White people don't even live in communities with a meaningful number of Black folk. What % of White people do you believe are so hateful and self-destructive that you think they would destroy their own lives solely to "own the blacks" that they don't even see on a daily basis?

Not just what % are racist. But what % are so overwhelmingly racist they would fukk over their own family to pursue that racism.

I'm not denying the type you suggest exists. But be specific for a moment - what % of White people do you think it includes?

You realize the math isn't in your favor right? Even if thats 20% of the case, thats A MASSIVE number of people, right?

 

[mastermind]

Given the long history of race in this country, I don’t see this happening. The GOP would turn any issue that addresses real issues important to non whites into a culture issue.

You can forget about Voting Rights, affirmative action, police reform, etc.

I hope I’m wrong for the sake of this country, but I know too much about the history of this country and the role that race has played in where we are today.

This country's history has been to allow the things you believe it can't. All of those laws were passed during Civil Wars and Jim Crow shyt.

I don’t see this ever happening. I still maintain that any economic progressive policy that helps everyone will be framed as a taking away from hardworking white people and giving it to lazy undeserving minorities.

Getting rid of the filibuster, demographic changes and at some point changing how seats in the senate are allocated is how we get shyt done.

All of this starts when economic policies become a major part of our political discourse. Right now it is the culture wars.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This guy is a fukking idiot

 

[Vandelay]

This guy is a fukking idiot

He's becoming unwatchable to me. He really turned heel when he got called on the house nikka shyt.

 

[Robbie3000]

He's becoming unwatchable to me. He really turned heel when he got called on the house nikka shyt.

The final segment used to be watchable, but not anymore. His might as well replace his studio audience with clapping seals the way he brow beats them into clapping.

Jon Stewart and John Oliver are so much better.

 

[Vandelay]

The final segment used to be watchable, but not anymore. His might as well replace his studio audience with clapping seals the way he brow beats them into clapping.

Jon Stewart and John Oliver are so much better.

I still watch because I like seeing constructive dissenting opinions. But he rambles about woke and cancel culture too much now...like we get it you got cancelled and almost got cancelled again because you get a little reckless with your mouth