Raptors Hoping To Make It Back To The 6...Game 6:heh: Cavs Vs Raptors Playoff Thread

[Professor Emeritus]

This narrative is such bullshyt im not gonna go into it because i already have before but arguably two of the best perimeter defenders in the league are 6'4 and 6'3 teams hid zone defenses all the time and you could hand check nikkas back then.

A 6'3" person "can" be a good defender. Like I pointed out, Joe Dumars and Gary Payton were two of the guys who defended MJ most effectively.

But as a general rule, bigger is better. Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler and Andre Iguodala defend Lebron a lot better than Avery Bradley and Tony Allen and Patrick Beverley do. If you have to defend a great scorer who is 6'6", 220lbs, and you have two potential defenders of equal talent, you sure as hell are going to prefer to put 6'6", 220lb JR Smith in front of him rather than 6'4", 180lb Jeff Hornacek.

If you have EVER played basketball, and yet want to claim that height and weight and athleticism don't play a factor in ability to D someone up, I'm going to have to call you a liar. And the era where Jeff Hornacek and Craig Ehlo and Dan Majerle and Byron Scott and John Starks were Jordan's primary defender in huge playoff series did not have the height or the size or the athleticism to hang with Jordan.

Not that it isn't possible that he'd still be the GOAT if he played right now. But on a night-to-night basis, he'd have to do it against tougher defenders.

And YES, you could hand-check in that era. Now, who is that going to favor, some 180lb White guy or the 6'6", 220lb guard who happens to be the greatest two-way player in the league?

 

[hayesc0]

A 6'3" person "can" be a good defender. Like I pointed out, Joe Dumars and Gary Payton were two of the guys who defended MJ most effectively.

But you'd have to be an idiot to believe that, as a general rule, bigger isn't better. Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler and Andre Iguodala defend Lebron a hell of a lot better than Avery Bradley and Tony Allen and Patrick Beverley do. If you have to defend a great scorer who is 6'6", 220lbs, and you have two potential defenders of equal talent, you sure as hell are going to prefer to put 6'6", 220lb JR Smith in front of him rather than 6'4", 180lb Jeff Hornacek.

If you have EVER played basketball, and yet want to claim that height and weight and athleticism don't play a factor in ability to D someone up, I'm going to have to call you a liar. And the era where Jeff Hornacek and Craig Ehlo and Dan Majerle and Byron Scott and John Starks were Jordan's primary defender in huge playoff series did not have the height or the size or the athleticism to hang with Jordan.

Not that it isn't possible that he'd still be the GOAT if he played right now. But on a night-to-night basis, he'd have to do it against tougher defenders.

And YES, you could hand-check in that era. Now, who is that going to favor, some 180lb White guy or the 6'6", 220lb guard who happens to be the greatest two-way player in the league?

Lol some of this goes without saying but I have no doubt jordan would get more buckets easier in a era with alot faster pacing He would still be the got a lbj would be in the top 10 but he still not close to Jordan atm. Maybe in 4-5 years we can make a beer assessment since lebron hasn't declined yet.

 

[ghostwriterx]

6am on a Sat. Damn breh, do you sleep?

Don't play dumb.

Just following your lead, we both know a one game sample is completely irrelevant to this discussion

It's not hard to judge at all if you know his style of play, and how ineffective it is in a postseason environment. It simply isn't conducive to winning as #1 option.

You don't think his lack of effectiveness is in any way related to his supporting cast?
Replace Gordon with Klay and you don't think they're a legit contender?

The best 2 guard in the league isn't a legit #1?

Are there any legit #1's other than Bron, KD, Steph and Kawhai?
And you would've gotten a lot of debate on those last 2 four years ago.

 

[ghostwriterx]

How is the Warriors path to the Finals much "easier" than the Cavs this season?

1. They're clearly much better than every other team. Gap between the Cavs and the Rest of the East <<<< Gap between Warriors and the rest of the West.
2. Every team they've faced is dealing with injuries resulting in a starter missing at least one game.
3. This will continue in the WCF if they face the Spurs
4. If it's the Rockets, in your own words, they don't have a legit #1 option.

 

[NoMorePie]

Kyle Lowry just said he's doubtful to play game 4.

But last night Dwane Casey said he was active for game 3, but just didn't play... Now with an extra 2 days of rest how is he doubtful all of a sudden ?

 

[shutterguy]

Views from the 4th quarter..........

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Lol some of this goes without saying but I have no doubt jordan would get more buckets easier in a era with alot faster pacing

I think you're confused. Even though this year is the fastest pace in twenty years, EVERY year from 1984 to 1993 had a significantly faster pace than 2017. Not counting the shoddy Wizards years, the only time MJ ever played in a slower pace was from 1996 to 1998. Whereas Lebron has played literally his ENTIRE career at a pace below 2017's.

From 1984 to 1993, the first ten years of Jordan's career, the pace of the league varied from 96.8 to 102.1.

From 2004 to 2013, the first ten years of Lebron's career, the pace of the league varied from 90.1 to 92.7.

So Lebron played most of his career in a FAR slower-paced league that Jordan did. You could almost add 10% to his averages if you really want to count pace like that.



In 1996, pace took a sudden nose dive to 91.8, then to 90.1. Those were Jordan's only slow years, yet they were no slower than the pace Lebron played almost his whole career at. Jordan's own production stayed up in 1996-1998 even as his FG% went down simply because he played in a defense-heavy lineup where he was the featured scorer, so he still got a ton of shot attempts despite the slower pace (23 fga and 8 fta in the regular season and 25-26 fga and 10 fta in the playoffs) and continued to average 28-30 ppg despite shooting at a lower perecentage.

In Lebron's NBA pace did start going up in 2014, but only to 93.9 for a couple years and then 96.4 this year. You'll notice that even 2017, the fastest-paced season of Lebron's career, would be slower than the SLOWEST season of MJ's career up until his 1st retirement. And since Lebron isn't taking extra shot attempts (he's stayed around 18 fga and 7 fta in the regular season for the last seven years, and around 21 fga and 9 fta in the playoffs), you can't really claim that the higher pace is dramatically affecting his stats.

Claiming that MJ would score more now due to a higher pace is ridiculous.

 

[hayesc0]

I think you're confused. Even though this year is the fastest pace in twenty years, EVERY year from 1984 to 1993 had a significantly faster pace than 2017. Not counting the shoddy Wizards years, the only time MJ ever played in a slower pace was from 1996 to 1998. Whereas Lebron has played literally his ENTIRE career at a pace below 2017's.

From 1984 to 1993, the first ten years of Jordan's career, the pace of the league varied from 96.8 to 102.1.

From 2004 to 2013, the first ten years of Lebron's career, the pace of the league varied from 90.1 to 92.7.

So Lebron played most of his career in a FAR slower-paced league that Jordan did. You could almost add 10% to his averages if you really want to count pace like that.



In 1996, pace took a sudden nose dive to 91.8, then to 90.1. Those were Jordan's only slow years, yet they were no slower than the pace Lebron played almost his whole career at. Jordan's own production stayed up in 1996-1998 even as his FG% went down simply because he played in a defense-heavy lineup where he was the featured scorer, so he still got a ton of shot attempts despite the slower pace (23 fga and 8 fta in the regular season and 25-26 fga and 10 fta in the playoffs) and continued to average 28-30 ppg despite shooting at a lower perecentage.

On the other hand, in Lebron's NBA pace started going up in 2014, first to 93.9 for a couple years and then to 95.8 and eventually 96.4 this year. You'll notice that even 2017, the fastest-paced season of Lebron's career, would be slower than the SLOWEST season of MJ's career up until his 1st retirement.


And since Lebron isn't compensating with extra shot attempts (he's stayed around 18 fga and 7 fta for the last seven years, and around 21 fga and 9 fta in the playoffs), you can't really claim that the higher pace is dramatically affecting his stats.

Claiming that MJ would score more now due to a higher pace is ridiculous.

You are correct the pacing was faster for most of the Jordan era I was mistaken. I still think he would easily score in this era when you consider his copy had no problem scoring.

 

[jaguar paw]

 

[<<TheStandard>>]

Kyle Lowry just said he's doubtful to play game 4.

But last night Dwane Casey said he was active for game 3, but just didn't play... Now with an extra 2 days of rest how is he doubtful all of a sudden ?

Because he's a free agent with the biggest contract of his life waiting upon him. Risk 150 to 200 million for a playoff series against LeBron that you're already down 3-0 in just to ruin your career like Grant Hill brehs.

 

[JordanwiththeWiz]

I didn't even see Lebron do this

 

[OSUBaneBrowns]

I didn't even see Lebron do this

LeBron is literally treating the Raptors like children in this series . Henny Bron is a fukking salvage .

 

[RammerJammer]

Cavs win 114-92

 

[Buckeye Fever]

Grit.

Determination.

Heart.

Sacrifice.

The will to win.


If Toronto comes with that mindset, they'll gain some respect back.

 

[Rawster]

Look at how PJ Tucker and Corey Joseph react on the bench when hits the left handed leaner.


You know you on some shyt patch when even your opponents are in awe during the game