Random NBA Observations 2020 - 2021

[drifter]

I agree with the first part but I don't think the nets is "the justice league of hated players". they're definitely not as hated nearly as much the Heat and Warriors teams. as matter of fact, even the Harden-led rockets was more hated. I think Harden is getting less hated than before lol

Look around the league and tell me a team that has a collection of players that are more hated. KD's getting sympathy roses from the injury but is still hated for the GS move, Kyrie is hated for how he left Boston on top of making white people uncomfortable with NOI style tweets. I mean shyt look at the posts on this board every time a Kyrie topic is made lol. And Harden is hated for the way he left Houston, flopping, coming up short, etc. They don't even want to give him MVP when he's obviously next in line after Embiid/Bron went down.

The only difference with those teams you named and this one is they were heavy favorites before a minute of ball was played. The Harden trade happened mid season and they pulled KD almost right after, so there's still grey area for fans to still think they have a shot or that the Nets won't be that great.

If these 3 & Joe end up meshing like they were before KD went out and like the numbers show they will, you will get the same visceral to this team that the Heat/Warriors got.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Name the best player in NBA history whose playoff resume of chokes and failures is as bad as Harden.

I'm not talking about failure to advance. I mean consistently playing as AWFUL as Harden plays in the biggest games in every fukking postseason.

Michael Jordan in the 80s

What kind of dumbass troll response is that?

What did Jordan accomplish in the playoffs in the 80s against the best competition he faced in his entire career breh? Do tell the Coli.

Yo, @inndaskKy actually negged me for countering his "MJ was just as bad as Harden in the playoffs" narrative.

MJ didn't have a roster that won critical playoff games while he rode the bench the entire 4th quarter. MJ doesn't have even one game in the 1980s that's as bad as Harden's 10 biggest games.

That's a negtrain and Low Quality Post tag-level response.

 

[OsO]

Harden is playing very well this year. Probably the best basketball of his career. But he's still not close to Wade. I could go into a myriad of reasons why, but the biggest one is playoff performance. D Wade turned up in the post season and in the clutch, Harden has done the opposite.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

His FG% will liktely go up this playoffs on a more talented team.

Yes, the pressure may be off now that he's literally on the most stacked offensive team in NBA history.

The narrative that he hasn't had talented teams before this is complete bullshyt. He's played with Durant, Westbrook, Dwight, Gordon, CP3, and an entire roster of shooters from the 2 to the 5. He's had multiple series (against the Lakers in 2012 WCSF, against the Clippers in 2015 WCSF, against the Jazz in 2018 WCSF, and the 3 victories against the Warriors in 2018 WCF) where his teammates carried him to huge victories while he played like dogshyt. Literally EVERY single time Harden has ever gotten past the 1st round, he's looked absolutely terrible in all the most critical games and his teammates either had to do that shyt on their own or it wasn't going to happen.

He got beat by a weak-ass 2017 Spurs team even after they lost Kawhi. He got beat by the 2015 Warriors even after they lost Curry. He got beat by the 2014 Blazers even after they lost CJ. He got beat by the 2013 Thunder even after they lost Westbrook. He don't have shyt to say about rosters when you look at the teams that have beat him.

 

[Versa]

Yes, the pressure may be off now that he's literally on the most stacked offensive team in NBA history.

The narrative that he hasn't had talented teams before this is complete bullshyt. He's played with Durant, Westbrook, Dwight, Gordon, CP3, and an entire roster of shooters from the 2 to the 5. He's had multiple series (against the Lakers in 2012 WCSF, against the Clippers in 2015 WCSF, against the Jazz in 2018 WCSF, and the 3 victories against the Warriors in 2018 WCF) where his teammates carried him to huge victories while he played like dogshyt. Literally EVERY single time Harden has ever gotten past the 1st round, he's looked absolutely terrible in all the most critical games and his teammates either had to do that shyt on their own or it wasn't going to happen.

He got beat by a weak-ass 2017 Spurs team even after they lost Kawhi. He got beat by the 2015 Warriors even after they lost Curry. He got beat by the 2014 Blazers even after they lost CJ. He got beat by the 2013 Thunder even after they lost Westbrook. He don't have shyt to say about rosters when you look at the teams that have beat him.

Harden's post season reputation is what it is. Stuff like choking against a Kawhi-less Spurs is indefensible.

There are also post season runs where he was simply on the inferior team. The Rockets weren't good enough. It happens.

Your arguments his teammates being good is fair but should be looked at with more context than I think people who dislike Harden are willing to do.

Yeah, he had KD and Westbrook...when he was less than half the player he is today and coming off the bench.

Yeah, he had an aged CP3, who got injured at the worst time when they had a legit chance to win it all and wasn't a great fit.

Yeah, he had Westbrook, who is one of the most overrated players of all time with one of the lowest BBIQs who routinely makes terrible decisions in pivotal moments, can't shoot, and has done nothing outside of his time with KD.

Yeah, he had an already out of his prime Dwight who refused to recognize the limitations of his game.

Eric Gordon....anyway....

I've been a huge critic of Harden, especially in the playoffs. I'm not letting him off the hook at all because he's absolutely come up short individually at times. I'm merely pointing out that context matters when looking at his teammates during those failures.

I'd argue this the first time Harden's co-stars actually fit his game.

Me saying Harden's FG% will go up was looking at it from the perspective of him vs Wade honestly. I think if Harden had Shaq, LeBron and Bosh as his teammates with shooters like Wade did during his playoff successes, his percentage would be much higher. Maybe not Wade like because Harden shoots tons of 3s so his percentage will never be that high, but higher.

 

[FTBS]

Harden's post season reputation is what it is. Stuff like choking against a Kawhi-less Spurs is indefensible.

There are also post season runs where he was simply on the inferior team. The Rockets weren't good enough. It happens.

Your arguments his teammates being good is fair but should be looked at with more context than I think people who dislike Harden are willing to do.

Yeah, he had KD and Westbrook...when he was less than half the player he is today and coming off the bench.

Yeah, he had an aged CP3, who got injured at the worst time when they had a legit chance to win it all and wasn't a great fit.

Yeah, he had Westbrook, who is one of the most overrated players of all time with one of the lowest BBIQs who routinely makes terrible decisions in pivotal moments, can't shoot, and has done nothing outside of his time with KD.

Yeah, he had an already out of his prime Dwight who refused to recognize the limitations of his game.

Eric Gordon....anyway....

I've been a huge critic of Harden, especially in the playoffs. I'm not letting him off the hook at all because he's absolutely come up short individually at times. I'm merely pointing out that context matters when looking at his teammates during those failures.

I'd argue this the first time Harden's co-stars actually fit his game.

Me saying Harden's FG% will go up was looking at it from the perspective of him vs Wade honestly. I think if Harden had Shaq, LeBron and Bosh as his teammates with shooters like Wade did during his playoff successes, his percentage would be much higher. Maybe not Wade like because Harden shoots tons of 3s so his percentage will never be that high, but higher.

If you are superstar, you are supposed to elevate your game in the playoffs regardless of what is going on around you. You shouldn't need perfect fit, superstar teammates at the perfect time just to not shyt the bed. Fit is important when it comes to winning and losing, not for you as a superstar coming out and balling. That said, you really think Bron and Harden fit? Shaq was the 3rd leading scorer in the 06 Finals. He's had shooters. At a certain point we gotta hold people accountable for their own shyt. His FG% and performance better go up with KD and Kyrie.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Harden is playing very well this year. Probably the best basketball of his career. But he's still not close to Wade. I could go into a myriad of reasons why, but the biggest one is playoff performance. D Wade turned up in the post season and in the clutch, Harden has done the opposite.

Harden is better than Wade that ship has long sailed.

 

[MoneyTron]

Harden is better than Wade that ship has long sailed.

 

[Ziggiy]

Harden is underrated give him Lebron or KDs career roster and he has similar results

 

[inndaskKy]

Harden's post season reputation is what it is. Stuff like choking against a Kawhi-less Spurs is indefensible.

There are also post season runs where he was simply on the inferior team. The Rockets weren't good enough. It happens.

Your arguments his teammates being good is fair but should be looked at with more context than I think people who dislike Harden are willing to do.

Yeah, he had KD and Westbrook...when he was less than half the player he is today and coming off the bench.

Yeah, he had an aged CP3, who got injured at the worst time when they had a legit chance to win it all and wasn't a great fit.

Yeah, he had Westbrook, who is one of the most overrated players of all time with one of the lowest BBIQs who routinely makes terrible decisions in pivotal moments, can't shoot, and has done nothing outside of his time with KD.

Yeah, he had an already out of his prime Dwight who refused to recognize the limitations of his game.

Eric Gordon....anyway....

I've been a huge critic of Harden, especially in the playoffs. I'm not letting him off the hook at all because he's absolutely come up short individually at times. I'm merely pointing out that context matters when looking at his teammates during those failures.

I'd argue this the first time Harden's co-stars actually fit his game.

Me saying Harden's FG% will go up was looking at it from the perspective of him vs Wade honestly. I think if Harden had Shaq, LeBron and Bosh as his teammates with shooters like Wade did during his playoff successes, his percentage would be much higher. Maybe not Wade like because Harden shoots tons of 3s so his percentage will never be that high, but higher.

They're just really mad when the myth about Jordan playing better in the playoffs gets exposed and it is pointed out that Harden is very comparable to what other stars do in the playoffs. They don't want to acknowledge that the biggest difference was just the quality of teammates and the level of competition they faced.

They don't want to acknowledge that Jordan raised his FGAs in the playoffs and that that is why he averaged more points there whereas Harden shoots slightly less FGAs in the playoffs and thus doesn't score more. Both, as most players do, shoot a lower percentage in the playoffs. Jordan's numbers are skewed too by his stat-padding in those series during the 80s where he sacrificed winning to put up big numbers. If you only look at his winning years, it's clear that he didn't really up the ante all that much. He played the same pretty much but he had a good team around him so the other team couldn't focus solely on stopping him the way they always do Harden. When Jordan didn't have a stacked team yet and the Pistons did focus on him alone in the 80s, we all know how his teams fared.

Harden never had back-to-back-to-back first round exits like Jordan did, Harden pushed arguably the greatest team ever assembled to 7 and only lost because the one time he got a good star player next to him he got injured and the refs had some extremely questionable officiating games (Bron wasn't able to replicate this level of competition against the same team and there is little evidence to support that Jordan could have), despite 'abominable' playoff Harden and 'superman' playoff Jordan their effective field goal percentage in the playoffs is damn near identical (.500 vs .503) and it's likely that Harden will only raise his the next few years now that he finally has some help too so in all likelihood he will finish with a higher effective field goal percentage than Jordan in the playoffs.

The teammates carrying him argument is even more ridiculous and clearly insincere. As you've pointed out, they always leave out the context. For example, how Harden had more success with Dwight Howard than Kobe managed to. Or all the times Pippen (and others) saved the Bulls. Or how the Rockets traded away their big men right before the playoffs when he had Russ, or how CP3 and he dominated the league when healthy in their first year together and how CP3 struggled in the second year. The list goes on and on and on.

It's clear that they're arguing from a personal dislike for the man and by echoing media talking points rather than looking objectively at the evidence in context. All they have is smilies and an echo chamber. Gonna be some tough years ahead for them.

 

[Blackrogue]

Saw someone on twitter say this was Blake Griffin leaving Detroit

Youngins wont get it

Young folks are always the usual suspects

 

[inndaskKy]

Saw someone on twitter say this was Blake Griffin leaving Detroit

Youngins wont get it

Brilliant.

Actually, I just did some detective work and looked back at the old interviews and injury report from back then not long before the trade.


This was the injury report:

McGruder (elbow)
Ellington (groin)
Hayes (hip)
Okafor (knee)

Reporter: "So Blake, someone recently reported that you apparently haven't dunked a ball since late 2019. I was just wondering, is there any particular reason for this?"

Blake (looking at the injury report on the desk): "Yeah well, you know, it's just my body hasn't felt quite right these last few years. My elbow has been bothering me and of course my knee. Also, you guys may not have heard about this, but uh, my groin has also been somewhat of an issue for me in this last year. And, uhh, another thing is uhh, my hip has been very painful. So as far as dunking, over these next few years as I wind my career down you might still see me attack the rim with some aggressive layups here and there, timely floaters, and then, my guess is, you'll never see me dunk another ball again."

 

[<<TheStandard>>]

Prime D Wade would average 30 EASILY right now

When you see how easy Zion gets to the basket you would know that D Wade was a guard version of that type of basket attack.

I could see Wade averaging 28-32 every season shooting 50-55% every year .


He shot 49% as a fukkin rookie in a defensive era for gods sake are y'all nikkas serious

Wade still doesn't have Harden's playmaking ability. We're talking about a guy who averaged 36 and 8 assists lol He may not have chips bc he didn't play with Shaq or Lebron at the peak of his powers but I'm taking Harden over Wade all time. Outside of Lebron, we've never seen the combination of scoring, playmaking, durability to play EVERY NIGHT & floor raising ability. No disrespect to Wade but we're looking at 6 out of the last 7 seasons in which Harden had a legit case for being the league's MVP as a finalist or winner + 3 scoring titles & on track to win his 2nd assist title.

I look at Harden the same way I look at Clayton Kershaw pre 2020 or Peyton Manning before Bob Sanders managed to stay out of the hospital for the only 3 week stretch of his life & Von Miller carried him in 2015. Still great but just needed extra help. Maybe KD/Kyrie changes that

 

[<<TheStandard>>]

Yes, the pressure may be off now that he's literally on the most stacked offensive team in NBA history.

The narrative that he hasn't had talented teams before this is complete bullshyt. He's played with Durant, Westbrook, Dwight, Gordon, CP3, and an entire roster of shooters from the 2 to the 5. He's had multiple series (against the Lakers in 2012 WCSF, against the Clippers in 2015 WCSF, against the Jazz in 2018 WCSF, and the 3 victories against the Warriors in 2018 WCF) where his teammates carried him to huge victories while he played like dogshyt. Literally EVERY single time Harden has ever gotten past the 1st round, he's looked absolutely terrible in all the most critical games and his teammates either had to do that shyt on their own or it wasn't going to happen.

He got beat by a weak-ass 2017 Spurs team even after they lost Kawhi. He got beat by the 2015 Warriors even after they lost Curry. He got beat by the 2014 Blazers even after they lost CJ. He got beat by the 2013 Thunder even after they lost Westbrook. He don't have shyt to say about rosters when you look at the teams that have beat him.

I agree with you but we can't act like this didn't happen. Harden's playoff failures will hold him back tho.

 

[DetroitEWarren]

Wade still doesn't have Harden's playmaking ability. We're talking about a guy who averaged 36 and 8 assists lol He may not have chips bc he didn't play with Shaq or Lebron at the peak of his powers but I'm taking Harden over Wade all time. Outside of Lebron, we've never seen the combination of scoring, playmaking, durability to play EVERY NIGHT & floor raising ability. No disrespect to Wade but we're looking at 6 out of the last 7 seasons in which Harden had a legit case for being the league's MVP as a finalist or winner + 3 scoring titles & on track to win his 2nd assist title.

I look at Harden the same way I look at Clayton Kershaw pre 2020 or Peyton Manning before Bob Sanders managed to stay out of the hospital for the only 3 week stretch of his life & Von Miller carried him in 2015. Still great but just needed extra help. Maybe KD/Kyrie changes that

Wade constantly averaged 6-7 assists in an era where teams took 15-20 less shots per game.


I DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT BULLshyt ABOUT PLAYMAKING, WADE WAS A MUCH BETTER SLASHER, ITS NOT CLOSE. HARDEN GETS ASSUSTS FROM DRIVE AND KICKS.