Got damn I gotta sticky this
classic fukking thread 2 pages intruer words have never been spoken.
I never said if you didn't grow up on soul you wouldn't be able to get hip hop...
But..
If you know you know...
If you don't... You never will.
Why I never knew this shyt?! Smh
I never really thought about it this way. I'm 21 so I didn't really get to live out most of 80s & 90s R&B but I used to remember being into artists like Erykah Badu, Usher, Donnell Jones, Case, R Kelly, Jagged Edge, Mary J etc cause my mom used to play them a lot when I was little. Then of course my grandma and aunt listen to a lot of Southern Soul like Mel Waiters, Marvin Sease, and Sir Charles Jones to name a few. I do notice that a lot of cacs do not catch on to R&B references and samples like we do though, then again a lot don't even catch on to previous Hip Hop references.
to me. 
If you didn't come up listening to r&b and soul music...you're probably not a legit hip hop head
I've actually been meaning to make this thread for a long time. I'm just as much of an R&B head as I am a Hip Hop head and was really more heavily into r&b first as a kid. When I was younger around 6-10, I loved all the dope r&b from the late 80s and early to mid 90s. I'm willing to say right here that the r&b of the 90s is superior to the hip hop of the 90s, but that's a whole different debate. I didn't get into Hip Hop seriously until I was 11, but my musical roots are in soul and r&b. I think most 80s babies with black mother's and father's can probably relate.
Matter of fact, if you didn't have your roots in soul and r&b prior to transitioning fully into hip hop, you probably didn't get into hip hop organically and used it as a crutch to be cool or hide the fact you're a dweeb as a late teen or young adult (yes you Rosenberg)
Hip hop and r&b/soul are really like younger brother and older sister especially when you're talking about the 80s and 90s. a lot of cats like to claim hip hop hard, but i'm wary of them if they don't know they lyrics to "Let's Chill" by Guy, "I miss you" by Aaron Hall, "Night & Day" by Al B Sure or "Before I let you go" by Blackstreet. Or even the stuff before that like "love come down" by Evelyn "Champagne" King." if you can't at least hum Tony Terry "When i'm with you" or something by Stephanie Mills right now...you are not hip hop.
A prime example is a dude like Rosenberg. He goes so hard and prides himself on knowing 90s hip hop and thinking he's connected with the culture, but probably couldn't tell you the lyrics to "Forever My Lady" or "You Remind Me" by MJB. He hides his vulture status with stats, facts and history but without any r&b mentions EVER, he's exposed as being disconnected from hip hop. They're like super factual on ATCQ, De La Soul, Nas, Wu-Tang and others...even debating you accurately....
but if you put on something like this...
or this
they'd be lost as fukk....even though the history creation and collaborations are all intertwined especially during these eras. They didn't come up in it so they think hip hop was some separate shyt....no soul or groove at all but will try to lecture you to death. Never once heard their mom wake the whole house up on a Saturday morning to clean blasting this
or this
or this
or even further back
They won't know ONE SONG.
That's why I really think the industry annihilated r&b out the picture because it's not something they can easily emulate debate or discuss because it's not something you just discover on your own. You're brought up in it and that's what led a lot of us into hip hop/rap. It was Mary who christened Reasonable Doubt and allowed Hov' to ride in on Can't Knock The Hustle so smoothly. Nas was known as one of the dopest MCs but it wasn't until Lauryn blessed him with her vocals on If I Ruled The World that he hit that next level of notoriety. If we're keeping it 1000 Biggie really became that nikka when nikkas saw he bagged Faith.
Hip Hop and r&b have always had a symbiotic relationship and the absence of r&b has been detrimental to the culture. There's a level of talent and a standard that r&b HAS to hold that hip hop would keep parallel too. One would always check the other.
Imagine if you had r&b singers today that were Lil Pump or Lil Uzi status
You couldn't be looking dusty and dirty and not know how to sing
But it's okay for nikkas to come in and not know how to rap?
How would that even work? It wouldn't. And because We don't have r&b talent as a reflection of the standard we should be holding to hip hop...we're losing. The culture vultures eradicated and prevented r&b from joining the mainstream with hip hop on purpose. It was always supposed to be the two genres together as a force. now it's no soul, no groove, no swing, no real dancing (besides breezy) and cacs can easily come in and just rap. they don't have to have any r&b counterparts so we can see they don't really have what we have. they took one and diminished the other because they knew they couldn't really do it.
So yeah, as much as I love hip hop, r&b/soul is the OG to the culture and really the only way you can show me how you as a listener came in organically. artists aren't the only culture vultures, listeners are too. trying to come in and talk about this shyt...wanna study it at Harvard or Yale but never heard of Frankie Beverly & Maze. This is how you prove Hip Hop is a culture and it's not just hip hop alone.
b-b-b-b- I know Marvin Gaye and Earth Wind and Fire, Michael Jackson and Rick James
everybody knows their shyt. fukk outta here
If you JUST started at Hip Hop...you don't know shyt. I don't give a fukk how many times you listened to Midnight Marauders, 36 Chambers, illmatic or how well you know the Duck Down roster or your fukking Sean P T-Shirt. fukk you. If you never had to break up a fight with your female cousins over who was singing Monica or Brandy's part on The Boy Is Mine or try to hear grown folks business over The Isley Brother's after being sent to your room...you ain't Hip Hop. You a plant too.
