Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

[storyteller]

I'm not sure Tyreke Evans has ever been considered a playmaker. I think you just see him as not Jose, which is not really a bad thing... but we'd be paying him more money to do what we want Jose to do, and he'd be taking shots away from Porzingis.

I don't think he's the point guard this team needs, especially because he's always been a dribble iso guard.

I think he'd be an upgrade in talent... I just feel like he's the kind of player the knicks have always sold out for... a bad fit with a big price tag.


Here is the better question: What would N.O. want for him that WE have to offer? The salaries can be matched... but they'd be taking on longer deals... they are going to want a pick.

He's a drive and kick playmaker, which is to say, he can get into the lane and find an open shooter or finish. He's not a complete playmaker per se, but he's not getting close 7 assists without being able to create something for others. His big price tag of 15 per comes off the books after next season and I'd shoot for him if Calderon's included. So We're adding 7 million in salary, which is hefty but manageable, especially because we need someone that can get into the lane. It's the biggest thing missing from our team right now that will make the system run more smoothly.

In terms of what would NO want, I don't really think much. Like I said initially "
I'd inquire even though the two roster's don't particularly match well assets wise. Even if not them, maybe we can play third wheel to balance the roster a bit. Pure speculation here though."

I'd see what NO is looking for and decide after they give us an idea. Otherwise, I'd at least touch base to see if we could be a third team in a deal and move Jose for an upgrade at Guard. This is really just shooting off a thought in terms of the suggestion, but I think a lot of people slept on how good Evans played last season because it was so unexpected. I never liked him before that.

 

[I.V.]

He's a drive and kick playmaker, which is to say, he can get into the lane and find an open shooter or finish. He's not a complete playmaker per se, but he's not getting close 7 assists without being able to create something for others. His big price tag of 15 per comes off the books after next season and I'd shoot for him if Calderon's included. So We're adding 7 million in salary, which is hefty but manageable, especially because we need someone that can get into the lane. It's the biggest thing missing from our team right now that will make the system run more smoothly.

In terms of what would NO want, I don't really think much. Like I said initially "
I'd inquire even though the two roster's don't particularly match well assets wise. Even if not them, maybe we can play third wheel to balance the roster a bit. Pure speculation here though."

I'd see what NO is looking for and decide after they give us an idea. Otherwise, I'd at least touch base to see if we could be a third team in a deal and move Jose for an upgrade at Guard. This is really just shooting off a thought in terms of the suggestion, but I think a lot of people slept on how good Evans played last season because it was so unexpected. I never liked him before that.

Here's the thing... you still haven't addressed what we'd have to give up to get a 26 year old guard coming off his best season. Jose isn't enough to get the deal done... throwing in Derrick Williams to make the salaries work isn't enough, especially because we haven't even tried to bolster his value. Which means... Seraphin? O'Quinn? I still don't think that's enough. Maybe the overseas rights to Hernangomez? Plus a pick?

I don't think they want to get rid of tyreke so badly, that they'd just sell him off for nothing. That doesn't make sense when THEY don't have much talent on THEIR roster to begin with.

 

[storyteller]

This is actually completely wrong...

Shumpert's career was derailed and thrown off course by two major injuries. He was a defensive specialist that developed a NICE 3pt stroke... but diminished quickness and explosiveness sapped his defense, and eventually his stroke fell apart.

If anything, Shumpert showed dramatic improvement before injuries and eventually the offense stunted him.

A defensive specialist I vibe with. He had a nice 3 point stroke after the rookie awfulness, but he also took a pretty limited amount of attempts (pretty much always averaging 1 three point make per game in his career). The injuries just made him a worse defender than before. He was a 3 and D cat, which is nice to have, but I don't think he ever had allstar upside (injuries or no) and I see Winslow as a similar rookie. That's not an insult to either of those guys, Jimmy Butler as a young cat was similar too imo. All three were/are athletic freaks, with decent jumper form but poor shooting and lock down defenders who relied on energy and athleticism...Butler is the best case scenario; Shumpert is just the reality check that Winslow's future isn't guaranteed.

 

[tremonthustler1]

If I see any of y'all in the floor seats area come catch this fade

 

[pimpineasy]

I think long term keeping Porzingis at PF is the way to go, when he gets stronger he'll be able to post up guys that are like half a foot shorter than him. Staying big with him at the 4 long term is a matchup nightmare.

As for Batum, I just don't see him leaving the Hornets as their main option to take on a role as a 3rd option, they'll have the caproom to make him a big offer. Teams generally don't trade for dudes they have a chance of losing the next year.

it would be a huge mistake to force porzing to add weight in order to play center....................

 

[I.V.]

Shumpert is just the reality check that Winslow's future isn't guaranteed.

But given career-altering injuries... nothing is guaranteed.

Why draft or sign any players?

 

[storyteller]

Here's the thing... you still haven't addressed what we'd have to give up to get a 26 year old guard coming off his best season. Jose isn't enough to get the deal done... throwing in Derrick Williams to make the salaries work isn't enough, especially because we haven't even tried to bolster his value. Which means... Seraphin? O'Quinn? I still don't think that's enough. Maybe the overseas rights to Hernangomez? Plus a pick?

I don't think they want to get rid of tyreke so badly, that they'd just sell him off for nothing. That doesn't make sense when THEY don't have much talent on THEIR roster to begin with.

So when I say "we don't match up well assets wise with them" that's because I agree with you. We don't have much to offer and I don't think they'd want what we have or I at least feel that they could get a better deal. But if they're looking to make room to re-sign Ryan Anderson and Evans is available...then we do have expiring contracts, Calderon is a vet making have the money who can give them more spacing and they may just find a place for us as a third team in a larger deal (we don't land Tyreke Evans in that scenario but who knows if we could fill a need and/or dump a contract).

This is a shot in the dark situation really. I'm just throwing it out there that we should get our names in the mix just in case and I think Evans would be an interesting target. Fish could give him the Shved role and I think he'd thrive. We're missing that kind of player this season. I'll also concede that Shved had high USG and Evans' USG would have to come down, but it could work and might be a better shot at a quality young guard than waiting to overpay someone this offseason.

 

[storyteller]

But given career-altering injuries... nothing is guaranteed.

Why draft or sign any players?

You think Shumpert was a knee injury away from being Jimmy Butler breh?

 

[I.V.]

You think Shumpert was a knee injury away from being Jimmy Butler breh?

I think shumpert was a clean bill of health and some actual coaching away from being slightly below that level, yes. An elite wing defender, with a good outside stroke, and the ability to get to, and finish at the hoop.


But my point was really that you can't use him as a 'reality check' because he had a bunch of major injuries that derailed his career.

I get what you're saying though... you don't want to trade Melo for "stronger Danny Green" - which is totally fair.


I don't KNOW that we should trade melo, or that we could -- I just think the conversation about WHY we WOULD do it needs to be realistic. Melo does NOT star in this team's future. He can't. That's just math. So if you're plan is to just hold on to him until his contract is up, and then figure it out. Well, cool. But sitting on a declining commodity is at best a bad plan.

 

[Victim of Racism]

i wasn't lying since i was talking about the regular season. do you want me to google how many times melo was bounced out of the first round in all his years on the nuggets too? pretty sure it's around 7.

You did lie. You said it was their best season. That is a lie. To say the postseason isn't a part of the season is a lie and you know it. If you could have bolstered your lie with a better postseason showing, you would have. You ain't slick. 3 more regular season wins and getting bounced in 6 games of the 1st round is not a better season than 3 less regular season wins and playing 6 games against a dynasty in the Western Conference Finals while vomiting and get I.V.'s between games (that was literally happening to 'Melo, but again, you already knew that).

While we're changing the subject, do you want me to Google all the times George Karl was bounced out of the 1st round (even without 'Melo), how many times George was fired, what competition 'Melo faced in the 1st rounds, the scrubs he took the Western Conference Finals, and how many times 'Melo has taken scrubs to the playoffs even in a brutal West?

 

[The War Report]

Best move is to swap Calderon for Ty Lawson.

 

[DPresidential]

If I see any of y'all in the floor seats area come catch this fade

 

[I.V.]

Best move is to swap Calderon for Ty Lawson.

 

[DPresidential]

@storyteller I usually cosign you but @I.V. is right about Shump.

Under Woodson, who continued to call him rook into his second year, Shumpert did not have the proper emotional or mental environment to develop correctly.

He had the heart and the work ethic...just needed his defense to be honed a bit more to avoid early foul trouble.

His offensive game...he couldn't finish and struggled with his shot at times but again...Woodson didn't give him the right support.

 

[K-ZOE]

Best move is to swap Calderon for Ty Lawson.

You hated JR Smith but you want Lawson's drunk ass??