Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

I.V.

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Who are the fringe contenders he'd waive the no trade for? Riley isnt trading for Carmelo or giving up Winslow.

Lmao why do people think justice Winslow is good?

That's a good question. He's a good athlete and looks the part I'd guess.

I think people (and scouts) see him as somebody that can develop the way Kawhi has developed... start as a defensive specialist, perfect the form on the jumper, and work on his ball handling... he'll be big and strong enough to muscle guys, and be able to hit jumpers on the swing.

That's the hope, at least. I think.


+/- positive impact

And that.

I think yall wasted a lot of pages on the 'trade Melo' debate. The facts are the Knicks organization and Melo are married to each other. And Melo has an iron clad pre-nup in the form of a NTC. Where does this championship or bust mentality come from?

It's not championship or bust, it's "build the best possible team"

The reality is we don't become contenders any quicker by trading him now for young unproven assets than we do if he plays out his contract here.

False, if you keep him and his contract, you are invested in a fading asset and player, and then have to start over when he's gone. If you trade him now for picks and a piece, then you jumpstart that process, and have a stronger team over the next five years.

And at the end of the day the owner of the team we root for is in the business of making money. He's not trading a draw like Melo to build a young team that could challenge for the playoffs. In a couple years.

In a couple of years, Melo will be 34 and nobody will want him.


But if you tweak and build around the young potential franchise player you just drafted along with your all star draw that's in his prime, you may have something on your hands.

The window on melo's career is already shutting. And this team isn't very good, "tweaking" wont' change that. They will have to scrape just to have a shot at making the playoffs.

You'd still have to tinker with the lineup with the scraps you get for Melo, so why not keep him and address the PG position? Or find a playmaker to use in the triangle?
Address the coaching situation. This is the 1st time in NY or in the NBA I've heard of the GM or team president having so much influence on what the coach runs on offense.

Riley.

RC Buford aint telling Popovich what he gotta run. Dave Checketts wasn't telling JVG what to run.

Those guys aren't better basketball minds than their coach. Fisher is here because Phil can't physically handle the day-to-day of coaching. He is a proxy. And honestly, a shytty coach from what I've seen.

Oh yeah earlier I said Melo's in his prime. I'm sure that needs to be addressed.

It sure does.

He is indeed coming of knee surgery. But he's only 31 coming off surgery for a wear and tear procedure, not a career threatening injury.

He has been in the NBA since he was 19... he has a TON of minutes on his legs, and has been more injury prone over the last 3 years than at any other point in his career.

He never has or will play above the rim.

You should go back and watch clips from his first 6-7 years in the league.

But he will establish a rhythm. His timing will return. Hopefully he will understand when to take heat checks,

He has never understood this.

His new improved defensive #s should satisfy the stat/efficiency whores

No, because 1) anybody that cares about stats understands sample size, and 2) his defense doesn't have anything to do with his inefficient offense.

The fact is we've seen this script before in NY basketball with Ewing.

Ewing was traded at the end of his contract, and it set the team back because they took on longer deals and did not get enough future value in talent or picks. Melo would have to be traded for young players and/or picks.

Different team, different time, different GM

So the Pelicans are hearing offers but not really pushing to move Anderson...Maybe they wanna free up some space to re-sign him. That could make Gordon and Evans the fire sale guys...I'd inquire even though the two roster's don't particularly match well assets wise. Even if not them, maybe we can play third wheel to balance the roster a bit. Pure speculation here though.

All of those guys are washed. No thanks.
 

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All of those guys are washed. No thanks.

Not even Tyreke Evans? He was balling last year (still doing numbers but I haven't watched him since he got back this year) and he provides exactly what we're missing. I'd take that shot on him, especially if Calderon is part of the deal.
 

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you would think the 76ers would scare ppl off from the tank/lets collect draft picks thing
but evidently not
funny this is, if knicks were to trade melo knick fans would crying next season that porzingas needs some help and we need to pick up a star to help him:mjlol:

then once we eventually pick up a player with potential and he starts having bettter games than porzingis, the argument will change to " We need to trade porzingis! its so and so's team now, trade him now while he has high value::mjlol:

the cycle continues, rinse and repeat

Post. Of. The. Year.
 

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Why is this thread so focused on trading Melo? It's not going to happen. It's not even a little likely because of NTC. What baffles me is that people don't realize Melo being on this team is actually better for the future as well.

You don't think Porzingis benefits from not having to be the centerpiece of this team? Regardless of your opinion of Melo, the vast majority of the league is focusing their defensive scheme around stopping Melo. You don't think Melo is helping Porzingis develop his offensive game? And Melo, having the arsenal that he has, can help him anywhere in his offensive game.

You don't think Melo/Porzingis looks better to free agents than LaVine/Porzingis and a future first rounder that might end up being D'Angelo Russell or Anthony Bennett? Do you not realize that once the cap goes up, Melo will be making a much more acceptable salary for someone of his talent/age. You dudes are so used to being fans of a crappy franchise that you don't even realize when the path is bright.

The goal really should be to try and sign a promising young up and coming free agent with the goal that Melo can just be the 2nd/3rd guy in a year or 2. If the management isn't stupid, money shouldn't even be an issue anymore.

Great post. KP on 'Melo:

“He is making a lot of situations [easier] for me,” Porzingis said. “Because of him I’m getting wide-open looks. He’s great. Playing alongside him, I can just read him and play off of him. When I am open, he is going to hit me. I don’t doubt that.

Y'all can Google the quote because I'm not giving that site any clicks.
 

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Justise Winslow ain't a Kawhi Leonard prospect imo and even the Butler trajectory is a very rare occurence for a player like him. That 86 ORTG so far is really ugly. Taking a realistic approach to him, you'd be getting a quality role player and defensive stopper...but I'd just hope he becomes a better Tony Allen and save the proclamations of stardom for when he's actually showing that he can have a consistent offensive game at all. He's got plenty of time to show more, don't get me wrong, but people gotta remember that Kawhi and Jimmy are the exceptions to the rule.
 

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Not even Tyreke Evans? He was balling last year (still doing numbers but I haven't watched him since he got back this year) and he provides exactly what we're missing. I'd take that shot on him, especially if Calderon is part of the deal.


Ehhhh... He can't shoot, he doesn't defend. He stops the ball, he's inefficient, and he gets hurt a bunch.

Now, I'll say... he's shooting well to start the season... and I'll tune in to the next few games to see what's up. But I don't think he's the type of player we need.

BUT, he's young, and he's only on the hook for this season and next. Might be worth a rental to see if he can adjust. I just think he shoots too much and doesn't defend enough.
 

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nuggets on their best season since the 70's 2 years after trading melo and now they're in rebuild mode. 57-25 is a better record than any Melo led team has ever gotten. i don't think any nuggets fan would want melo back, why would they?

That wasn't their best season. They lost in 6 games of the 1st round that year. 'Melo got them to the Western Conference Finals. Why you lyin'? Get all the way out of here with 3 more regular season wins is their "best season". And those fans do want him back. That's why they treat him the same way Cavs fans treated Lj before he came back and how Heat fans treat Lj now. They want him because he can shoot, defend, rebound, force turnovers, block shots, and pass, but you already knew that.
 
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Ehhhh... He can't shoot, he doesn't defend. He stops the ball, he's inefficient, and he gets hurt a bunch.

Now, I'll say... he's shooting well to start the season... and I'll tune in to the next few games to see what's up. But I don't think he's the type of player we need.

BUT, he's young, and he's only on the hook for this season and next. Might be worth a rental to see if he can adjust. I just think he shoots too much and doesn't defend enough.

We're not missing defense or shooting particularly and I disagree about ball stopping. He's a slashing kick out player who showed improved decision making. So when I say he's exactly what we need, I mean a playmaking slasher. Grant is supposed to become that piece but right now we need someone that gets inside the defense consistently and Reke would be that guy.

I should edit in, since Reke would replace Calderon in the line-up, his defense would still be an upgrade btw.
 
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They lost in the 1st round that year. 'Melo got them to the Western Conference Finals. Why you lyin'? Get all the way out of here with 3 more regular season wins.


i wasn't lying since i was talking about the regular season. do you want me to google how many times melo was bounced out of the first round in all his years on the nuggets too? pretty sure it's around 7.
 

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Justice Winslow maybe a Shumpert that can make layups :heh:

Shumpert is a perfect example of a specialist on one end with a ton of space to learn on the opposite side who basically never progressed. Winslow's personality bodes well though and in college I liked what I saw...just not sold on him yet. Gotta see his progress after a longer span.
 

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i wasn't lying since i was talking about the regular season. do you want me to google how many times melo was bounced out of the first round in all his years on the nuggets too? pretty sure it's around 7.

The nuggets would still have made the playoffs at a higher rate with Melo (100%) than without. If that trade is how you're selling people on trading a max value guy for prospects, you're doing a bad job selling. Pau Gasol might be a nice one to look back at, if memory serves correct it was looked at as an awful deal but the Grizzlies made a ton of cap space and Marc Gasol wound up being a better prospect than people initially thought.
 

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We're not missing defense or shooting particularly and I disagree about ball stopping. He's a slashing kick out player who showed improved decision making. So when I say he's exactly what we need, I mean a playmaking slasher. Grant is supposed to become that piece but right now we need someone that gets inside the defense consistently and Reke would be that guy.

I should edit in, since Reke would replace Calderon in the line-up, his defense would still be an upgrade btw.


I'm not sure Tyreke Evans has ever been considered a playmaker. I think you just see him as not Jose, which is not really a bad thing... but we'd be paying him more money to do what we want Jose to do, and he'd be taking shots away from Porzingis.

I don't think he's the point guard this team needs, especially because he's always been a dribble iso guard.

I think he'd be an upgrade in talent... I just feel like he's the kind of player the knicks have always sold out for... a bad fit with a big price tag.


Here is the better question: What would N.O. want for him that WE have to offer? The salaries can be matched... but they'd be taking on longer deals... they are going to want a pick.
 

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Shumpert is a perfect example of a specialist on one end with a ton of space to learn on the opposite side who basically never progressed. Winslow's personality bodes well though and in college I liked what I saw...just not sold on him yet. Gotta see his progress after a longer span.


This is actually completely wrong...

Shumpert's career was derailed and thrown off course by two major injuries. He was a defensive specialist that developed a NICE 3pt stroke... but diminished quickness and explosiveness sapped his defense, and eventually his stroke fell apart.

If anything, Shumpert showed dramatic improvement before injuries and eventually the offense stunted him.
 
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