Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

Wargames

Wargames

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On another note I am legit wondering if the knicks need to play RoLo in that Splitter capacity as a big off the bench and as a big to play alongside KP if teams go big. I know they hyped him to be the starting C but things changed and honestly he would fit in the Splitter role as the Big Lineup C, #1 bench center.

Utah came out with small ball and toasted us from the perimeter. Fisher then took out KP and went small ball with Lance, (mostly cause KP looked awful at the start) but I wonder if

Calderon
AA
Lance
Melo
KP

should of been the lineup he stayed with. Then if necessary sub in the two guard Grant and Galloway as needed. Maybe D Will if they see an opponent is weak to transition and speed. Either way the knicks really need to shed a big man. O'quinn doesn't play but really the knicks have like 5 guys who can play center.
 
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storyteller

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I.V. said:
A couple of things here, because reasonable minds can disagree: His defensive metrics have never beared him out as above average over the course of the season, and rarely have even shown him to be average... so you "belief" that he can be is great - I think we all believe he could be an average defender, or even slightly better than that... but he's never shown it for any kind of significant stretch.

Also, he's been a TERRIBLE help defender over the course of his career. Consistently failing to make proper rotations, close out, or even double-down on bigs with any kind of efficacy.

Even tonight, he looked sluggish as hell both ON the ball and off the ball. And his larger plus minus splits are MASSIVELY helped this year by having KP and Lopez in his rotation, and Fisher's insistence on going with hockey substitutions.
Click to expand...

Without quoting everything but covering your main points, I think you're seriously selling Melo short in a few places.

Defensively, the metrics said he was near elite defending PF's that year he stayed there almost exclusively. Over his career, he definitely is a poor help defender but this season has been a far cry with the past week or so notwithstanding (since he bumped knees with Giannis...which isn't a good sign to be fair).

When you bring up franchise changers, I think it's important to note that they weren't all game changers at the same time. TD was a beast right away but Dirk was still developing. TD was leaning on TP and Ginobili at times by the time Dirk was finally dispelling the talk about him not being a winner. Wade was injury prone even by the time Lebron arrived and Steph Curry's ankles meant GS got some solid first rounders before he really did become a franchise changer. All of this is just to say, at any given time there are probably around 4 or 5 actual franchise changers in the league operating. The rest of the guys aren't changing franchises so much as making the debate for spots 6-20 on power rankings lists interesting. Melo has arguably never been that guy, but it's extremely rare air.

When you call him a ball stopper with Billups, I'm gonna have to just disagree. Premier scorers are gonna isolate at points in a game, but I'd say he was at his best in terms of passing from the time he rocked with AI to Billups. With AI it was the pace that helped and with Billups he just didn't force as much which is why those two stints grade out really strong in shooting efficiency.

A premier ball handler would improve Melo simply by not forcing him to make so many decisions with the ball. You're right, he's less quick these days and slows down to bully his way into the lane. With a creator, he wouldn't have to do it so often. So even though he's still taking jump shots, they're less of the off the dribble or forced type and more akin to the catch and shoot where he was really effective in seasons past (not this year, but he's blatantly got no lift right now).

As far as attracting a top tier free agent, depends on what you rate Tyson Chandler coming off a title and DPOY...but he's at least second tier at the time and he had a higher offer on the table that he skipped out on. AA specifically stated that Melo was part of his reasoning. LMA didn't just say he liked Melo, he said he was excited to meet with the Knicks and had even talked to other guys about the Knicks (Robin Lopez being the obvious one). He pretty much outright said that Phil wanting to ensure KP playing time was what changed the two sides' interest levels. That's not a guarantee or anything, but it's saying way more than he had to out of courtesy.

Lance sucks for damn sure and probably doesn't even belong in OUR rotation lol...except for spot defensive subs.
Agreed that it's dope to go back and forth, I think we view the history a bit differently though. The Melo and AI offense was one of my favorites all time to watch, but they were atrocious on defense so it broke even :mjcry:

And yeah, that game was a disgrace. If Melo's hurting he should sit out and this was a game where I can't even get too mad at D-Fish because nothing he possibly did would have helped. At least KOQ showed he's still good when he gets minutes at C though:manny:
 
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I.V. said:
I'mma start with the crappier response, because it's easier to get this out of the way.



I don't know who you are, and really it doesn't matter. I have watched every knicks game, often twice. I have a background in scouting, and have done extensive film work plus worked in sports reporting and writing for a bunch of years.

But more importantly, I have been watching melo since he was in high school (I played at the ABCD camp against him, and went to BC, who played Cuse in the Big East) -- I'm just VERY familiar with him, and I root for him. But I'm also a realist, and I know that he's less explosive than he's been ever in his career -- and he's not getting MORE explosive or quick over the next 3 years. Right?

He has never been an elite defender. He has only ever been a PLUS defender for stretches, and never for a whole season. Which is fine, I only ask him to be engaged, active, and aware. But he's getting older, and he's not going to be a great defender in this league going forward. It just isn't possible.

Even tonight, as you were typing this nonsense, he looked sluggish on defense, and didn't get around to rotate on two different plays that I caught while at work.






In parting: Lance Thomas sucks, man. He is good enough to play for the knicks right now... but so is Sasha. Lance can't be in the rotation of any good to very good nba team.

:heh:

I like going back and forth... I think you are more optimistic about Melo's next three years than I am... I guess it's just prognostication, so either of us COULD be right. But I have a LOT of history behind me.

In the mean time, this game has been an embarrassment.
Click to expand...
#allfacts
 
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