Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

Rev

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@I.V. guess i've missed your posts, but how are you feeling about the direction, the decisions and the look of the team right now...from Horn down to the new acquisitions?

i know you were all about starting from scratch, but i'm kinda hopeful that we can do that we can reconstruct along with KP while remaining extra competitive in the conference.
 

seemorecizzy

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Jah Vless
Lol
I laugh when Ppl think the knicks can rebuild by tanking and getting picks
This is the new era
Friends wanna play with other friends and players wanna come into a situation where they fit

Knicks get rose, who wants to play with melo, then Noah who wants to play with Rose and Melo, then we recruit lee who is good friends with Noah


Now in free agency next year, even if we lose in the first or second round, we have respectable players with respectable track records of succes, and a legendarv coach,trying to convince superstar players to be apart of our culture

Much easier than saying "hey it's New York, just come "

If PHIL would have had this mentality last year and let melo be apart of the recruiting process, we would probably be even further along. He wanted to hog all the credit and act like he was doing everything on his own.

He finally understands that using players are a recruiting tool is the way to go
 

storyteller

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Not to be a dikk, but I'm calling bullshyt on almost all of that post. I find it highly suspicious that whomever smitty "talked to" loved all the knicks latest moves, and didn't care for some of the older ones.

That shyt reads like it came out of the Knicks pr office. They traded away grant, and now they don't like him? The "had to have" Rose? They acquired Joakim and Lee and Kuzminskas and Hernangomez is coming over, and they love all of them? Summer league is bullshyt basketball, so Ron Baker will be fine, but Jerian Grant didn't play well in summer league, and they knew immediately he was a "reach" -- even though he went where he was projected AND there are only like two useful guys taken in the next ten picks? Also, he played well in the actual nba late in the season, does that not count? Triangle is still larger than life, and more of a state of being and not just a system?


It's just a little suspicious to me. :manny:


This summer team is trash as fukk, tho. You gotta wonder, with all the roster spots that were up for grabs, how the fukk did nobody want to come and compete for a shot to make the team? That's crazy to me.

It could be that he got some straight PR work from the cats he spoke to, but it doesn't seem like he made things up. He's not a Knicks board poster, he's a mod for the Boston boards actually and has posted some stuff for other squads as well. The thing is, he's pretty clearly just reporting what he's told because a lot of cats double taked about Grant's summer league...he was damned good in the Summer league. I wanted him to start out the gate. So it could just be that cats are saying what they think is safe to put out there. He also had some stuff about the beat writers for NY being nice guys, so that could be part of it too lol. But I trust that he heard the ish from people around the Knicks though.

You're right on the summer team 100%. It seemed obvious that we'd have at least a couple of roster spots open and a Plumlee brother wound up being the one to snag that. I respect how he's played but there were a LOT of cats I figured for better than that but we didn't end up with any of 'em. Got me wondering how bad we missed Clarence Gaines this offseason.
 

I.V.

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@I.V. guess i've missed your posts, but how are you feeling about the direction, the decisions and the look of the team right now...from Horn down to the new acquisitions?

i know you were all about starting from scratch, but i'm kinda hopeful that we can do that we can reconstruct along with KP while remaining extra competitive in the conference.

I think that great teams are only built by combining multiple great players in a short amount of time. I think a team like Golden State did it through the draft, Miami did it through free agency, the Cavs did it through free agency, the draft, and a trade.

I think you have to have assets to acquire great players -- either draft picks, or young players and picks to trade, or cap flexibility.

The knicks did not acquire a great player this offseason. But they did unload some assets and give up some flexibility.

I like the Hornacek hire, I think he's shown some ingenuity on offense, and made some weird parts work together with interesting lineups and sets.

I think Lee is a good player who will help this team, but w're going to be paying him 10% of our cap when he's 34 and 35.
I think Jennings at 5 for a year is great value, even though I really hate his game right now.
I think Rose is a risk worth taking, but if they're good this year, it'll be because of him, and you almost have to resign him. And if he's hurt this year, it's a bit of a waste. And obviously he's never going to be MVP Derrick Rose again.
I like Noah, but I think a four year deal is a disaster, and we'll be paying him 20% of our cap when he's 34 and 35, and likely hurt, again.

I feel like these kinds of moves, as a unit, are the kinds of moves teams make when they're sick of not making the playoffs, and really want to see their team win 50 games, and get into the second round. But they are not built for sustained success.

I think the Knicks are going to be better next season than they have been in a while. I think we'll root for noah and rose, but I don't see anything in these moves that leads me to believe the Knicks have moved on from the mistakes that have crushed this franchise in the past, like giving non-superstars long deals, even if they have a history of injuries.

I think that this team is going to have a really hard decision on its hands at the end of the season with Derrick Rose. and I don't trust them to do what is right (regardless of what that is at the time.)

Phil Jackson spent the larger part of the last two seasons explaining how this was going to be a process, and that they were going to get progressively better. It wasn't going to all happen overnight. And I think he (or Doland) maybe got bored of that, and wanted to see results now. So we'll get results now. But I don't see this roster in any way preparing for a future built around the one young star they've drafted in the last 25 years. Other than the fact that they'll win more game this year and next year, hopefully.


I have some more uplifting thoughts a couple posts back... but if we're being honest, this is what happened this offseason. The knicks hit the reset, unloaded phil's two best non-Zingis moves, picked up a lottery ticket in Rose with a one year window to buy back in or try to sign somebody else... and signed two other guys who are (at best) on the back half of their primes, in order to try to turn the team's fortunes around in a hurry.

It'll be the most interesting season in a bunch of years, probably since the Houston/Spree/Camby days.
 
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Wargames

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I think that great teams are only built by combining multiple great players in a short amount of time. I think a team like Golden State did it through the draft, Miami did it through free agency, the Cavs did it through free agency, the draft, and a trade.

I think you have to have assets to acquire great players -- either draft picks, or young players and picks to trade, or cap flexibility.

The knicks did not acquire a great player this offseason. But they did unload some assets and give up some flexibility.

I like the Hornacek hire, I think he's shown some ingenuity on offense, and made some weird parts work together with interesting lineups and sets.

I think Lee is a good player who will help this team, but w're going to be paying him 10% of our cap when he's 34 and 35.
I think Jennings at 5 for a year is great value, even though I really hate his game right now.
I think Rose is a risk worth taking, but if they're good this year, it'll be because of him, and you almost have to resign him. And if he's hurt this year, it's a bit of a waste. And obviously he's never going to be MVP Derrick Rose again.
I like Noah, but I think a four year deal is a disaster, and we'll be paying him 20% of our cap when he's 34 and 35, and likely hurt, again.

I feel like these kinds of moves, as a unit, are the kinds of moves teams make when they're sick of not making the playoffs, and really want to see their team win 50 games, and get into the second round. But they are not built for sustained success.

I think the Knicks are going to be better next season than they have been in a while. I think we'll root for noah and rose, but I don't see anything in these moves that leads me to believe the Knicks have moved on from the mistakes that have crushed this franchise in the past, like giving non-superstars long deals, even if they have a history of injuries.

I think that this team is going to have a really hard decision on its hands at the end of the season with Derrick Rose. and I don't trust them to do what is right (regardless of what that is at the time.)

Phil Jackson spent the larger part of the last two seasons explaining how this was going to be a process, and that they were going to get progressively better. It wasn't going to all happen overnight. And I think he (or Doland) maybe got bored of that, and wanted to see results now. So we'll get results now. But I don't see this roster in any way preparing for a future built around the one young star they've drafted in the last 25 years. Other than the fact that they'll win more game this year and next year, hopefully.


I have some more uplifting thoughts a couple posts back... but if we're being honest, this is what happened this offseason. The knicks hit the reset, unloaded phil's two best non-Zingis moves, picked up a lottery ticket in Rose with a one year window to buy back in or try to sign somebody else... and signed two other guys who are (at best) on the back half of their primes, in order to try to turn the team's fortunes around in a hurry.

It'll be the most interesting season in a bunch of years, probably since the Houston/Spree/Camby days.

I sort of disagree with you. I feel this offseason was a summation of all the habits Phil has had for the last few years and was a more natural growth for the team than people give it credit for.

The Good:jbhmm:

We aren't trading picks.
Phil continues to refuse to trade draft 1st round picks and instead had a 2nd round picks sent to us in the Rose Trade. Phil got the best player and was able to get a 2nd rounder sent to the knicks. That is as far from the norm for Knicks GM as could be possible.

Outside Talent. The knicks continued to look at the Liga ACB (Spain's basketball league) for top European talent. A lot of basketball scouts and media figures say its the best league outside of the NBA. The knicks seem to be ahead of the curve in getting those players here. Also they decided to not take a flyer on a second round pick (that was costing almost 3 mil each)and instead used it on Kuzminskas who a lot of scouts believe is already NBA roleplayer good.

The D-League talent. The knicks are still involved with getting talent that could fit on their D League roster. Letting Gallo walking sucked, but it shows that their D league team can produce Roleplayers on cheap contracts. That's all you can reasonably ask for from a D league farm team. Randle, Plumlee, and Baker look like they could make the NBA roster and if they don't can easily go to the D league and cook for a bit. Also ther teams won't keep all their 2nd round picks. I expect at least 2 undrafted guys to fill the bench, and a few 2nd rounders who are let go to be sent to the Westchester Knicks.

Signing guys to good contracts for less
. In the world where Tristan Thompson contract looks sane..... and a Roleplayer like Barnes got a max. Phil Got Lance to take less to stay in New York, Courtney Lee Less to come here, and probably would of kept Gallo if they thought he would take a 1 year deal. That says something about the team reputation and culture. Nobody was taking less money to stay here before except for JR and that was because he wanted to be in town to indulge in fukkery.

Phil paid a little less for D-Will and Afflalo. However, it was short term. These deals with Lance and Lee was a similar move to that. However both those guys are two roleplayers that could of got similar deals for the same amount last year for good teams and still chose the knicks.

Maintaining Cap Space.
The knicks are going to have a lot of cap space next year with Rose being an expiring. The media is saying Russell Westbrook might want to come here (I said that last December but whatever.....) It could potentially happen. The only reason is Phil has been managing the cap since he got here. Letting Gallo walk was a side effect of that. Phil already has Westbrook money, He just has to wait to make a bid next summer.

Playoff experience. I read somewhere that Phil felt KP needed to get use to being in the playoffs so he could learn how to expand his game. I agree with him. There is no worse way to train somebody how to be a winner, than to put them in a situation where they always lose. Playoff basketball is another level. KP should learn it now so over the next 10-15 years of his career he will know what it takes to win in the playoffs.

The Bad:beli:

Noah's deal.
Its long and he might not live up to it. However, both Noah and Rose have played in triangle sets for Thibs in Chicago. Noah is also right now the best passing Center for the triangle (even more than Boogie and Karl Towns). Also Noah will bring that fire that as hard a competitor as Melo is just isn't his style. When this team reaches the playoffs. If Noah is healthy I think they will have a punchers chance against any team in the conference. RoLo was great for the Knicks, Noah is can be just great in general

Rose's Injury Concerns. This team has a lot of them, but they also got a lot of guys with chips on their shoulders and new contracts to earn. Last time the knicks had this Phil shipped everybody out to change the culture (and tank) because there was no point in going hard with a injured Melo. This time if it happens the knick still have their first round draft pick (and two 2nds) in what has been referred to as a good draft two years ago.

Even if Rose is the biggest of the concerns short term. He is on a 1 year deal though too. Phil has a tendency to be risk averse and seek those type of deals out and it works perfect. Its a win/win situation.

Jennings. The guys is JR lite, but a bench unit made up of Lance Thomas, O'quinn, and Kuzminskas needs a gunner. Plus at his price, for a guy who we know can lead a team as a PG behind Derrick Rose is a steal. We all know Derrick isn't playing 70+ games this season due to at least rest and maintenance of his knees. Jennings could be the PG in those situations and at least wont do anything too stupid. He's also a 1 year deal which is something that makes this experiment a whole lot easier to accept

Summary:ehh:

So all of these moves to me shows a pretty good GM who is getting better. Its the same theme as his earlier moves as GM (be frugal, scout foreigners, build through the D league, offer short deals, etc), but Phil has seemed to have figured out how to value players more accurately. Plus the idea of playing with Melo and KP has made NY a much more alluring place than it was last year. Considering the amount of Ass rape we seen around the league this FA anyone who talks trash about the knicks moves in comparison is either a Knicks Hater, a overly concerned fan, or a Phil Hater.

2016-2017 is going to be a good year for the knicks brehs:obama:

The league has been warned:ufdup:
 
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RicanHavok

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Still need to fill the back of the roster with more guards/wings (or maybe a rangy big). Re-signing Sasha to the veteran's minimum would surpass the awful Noah deal as the worst contract on the Knicks books. Don't you do it Phil :willface:

It might just be a favor to Porzingis, he likes having Sasha around.
 

nieman

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Meh, them nikkas don't deserve to get they numbers retired for as big of a staple as they were :manny:
Marbury, Shawne Williams, Kenyon Martin all had #3 after Starks. And McDyess :scust: had #34 after Oakley



That picture is photoshopped. I refuse to acknowledge that it happened.

I know everyone that had those numbers...you forgot Eddy Curry. But while they may not have accomplished much, you ask any 90's Knicks fan or basketball watcher period about the 90's Knicks and they'll say "Ewing, Oakley & Starks" If MJ can have a number retired in Mia, those 2 more than deserve it.
 
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