Purpose of humanity ?

[Blackking]

In regard of what ? Where do you place the boundary between simple/complex ?
We test our chemicals on mice, porks and stuff because they resemble us. Between humans, we have a 99.5% similarities, but we still are 96+% similar to chimps. Like animals we have trillions of cells.
Where do you draw the line ? DNA ? Behaviors ? Feelings ? Thinking ? Intelligence ?
I agree that we are a little more complex than animals which are a little more complex than vegetals which are a little more complex than minerals.
OK, but why minerals aren't complex to you ?


Why does there need to be one ?
You don't think that some things can just "be" without any purpose to them ? Chaos can't be a legitimate answer to you ?


Our position in the solar system led to the first signs of what we call "life", of course. But we were not created/set AT this specific place.
Life appeared like 3.5+ billions years ago. The Homo genus is like 2.5 millions years old. What's a milly to a billy ?
And Homo Sapiens (humans as we are now) is only 200K years old...


The differences in our views lies here.
1. You link complexity to a necessary design leading to a purpose.
But complexity is an arbitrary notion and relative to what ?
Are we complex in regard to the solar system ? To the universe ? To the infinitely great ? Or to the infinitesimal ? To the quantum system ?
I'm not saying we aren't complex, just that we don't (and can't) know if we are and there are no proof of it.

2. Then you draw a line between human and animal to define complexity. Well OK, you gotta draw it to define something... but why not between vegetal and animal ? Why not between inanimate and living ?
Or better, why draw a line ?

We can only speak and base our perspectives, scales, measures, and definitions on what we know as human beings. And we aren't simple organisms in regards to what we know simple organisms to be.

And the line is drawn and the conversation goes on for hundreds of years, between humans and other organism, as opposed to veg and animal or bacteria and other organism, etc.... Because 1) science makes the distinction. 2) we actually have science and actually study these other organisms when most of them are even fully self aware of their position in life. 3) human intelligence is defined as the mental quality that consists of the abilities to learn from experience, adapt to new situations, understand and handle abstract concepts, and use knowledge to manipulate one’s environment.

 

[Prodigital]

Why does there need to be one ?
You don't think that some things can just "be" without any purpose to them ? Chaos can't be a legitimate answer to you ?

I think its outside of our limitations to truly accept chaos.. its like understanding infinity, its just not acceptable and no matter what, we'll continue to search for our closes boundary. No matter how big or small, its our nature to go further in an attempt to define exactly were we are.

So with that said, just as randomly as we exist, we should randomly not exist. We live on an asymptote, before us there's infinity and after us there's infinity, and usually when there's an asymptope there some sort of significance. We see it in ALL of our mathematical models.. so why wouldn't it be the same in reality? Yeah, we don't have a clear answer but that doesn't mean there isn't one, just as well as we can't conceive the true scale of our universe and what may lie outside of it but all signs point toward there being more to define.

..

I think you guys give too much value to the idea of 'right conditions', even under those circumstances life isn't absolute. For all the solar systems with planets in the inhabitable distances from their stars, it's still is impossibly rare for life to occur and sustain, and we as humans not only occurred, but dominated our environment and maybe within a thousand years (which is short on the scale of time), we'll dominate this solar system (if we don't wipe ourselves out first).

... that alone should prove significance, but purpose is inheritably difficult to prove cause it's perceptive.. or possibly too simple to convolute. We already know procreation is our most basic instinct, and it seems that everything living wants to further the spread of its genetics.. so rather than ants, we are just viruses and space / time is our host. Our purpose: try to take shyt over.

 

[Blackking]

Friend, we didn't say humans are ants. We said humans are ants in the grand scheme of things, ESPECIALLY if you believe in a theism, such as yourself.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you about atheism, religion, etc. I

Let's assume for a second that I believe what you did blackking, are you saying that human beings are on the level of your God?

typeusernamer, let's say we are here randomly, and the universe was happenstance as opposed to created.. would that make the creation of religion a good thing that advanced us to this point so far? Instead of being in a constant state of fright we developed belief systems that assisted us in building beneficial cultural structures- those structures and that level of comfort lead to exploration and scientific discovery. Do you think that now that we have a better understanding of the universe and our environment on Earth, religion is what's holding us back from a full understanding?


Regardless of that, He said think of us as ants, then you say ants is even too strong - All stated in a thread about human purpose. I wasn't saying that humans are on the level of 'our' God, I'm saying that when asked what's the purpose of humanity the answer isn't .... sh1t.

I guess it's in how you think of things.. the human body contains trillions of cells. I guess one cell would be insignificant.. but none are without purpose, as cells are like humans. As a group they make organs, genetic material, etc. making each one significant and purpose serving. You could make the metaphor like, Think of us as bees. But without bees we would probably die, just as the universe (position of planets, temperatures, gravity, etc) is set up so that all variables work together to create life. So as speaking on the level of God.. What do you mean- are human beings on the level of God?

Without worshipers or people who made up the idea of God then what is God? I say that the universe isn't the universe without what's in the universe.. so everything in the universe is significant and serves at least the purpose of existence and interference with the rest of what makes of the universe. We could say that bacteria is god because we depend on them, and they were here before and will be after us. A God in the sense that you're speaking would transcendent to both space and time- but at the same time is dependent upon our knowledge of him in order be be classified as God.

 

[Type Username Here]

typeusernamer, let's say we are here randomly, and the universe was happenstance as opposed to created.. would that make the creation of religion a good thing that advanced us to this point so far? Instead of being in a constant state of fright we developed belief systems that assisted us in building beneficial cultural structures- those structures and that level of comfort lead to exploration and scientific discovery. Do you think that now that we have a better understanding of the universe and our environment on Earth, religion is what's holding us back from a full understanding?


Regardless of that, He said think of us as ants, then you say ants is even too strong - All stated in a thread about human purpose. I wasn't saying that humans are on the level of 'our' God, I'm saying that when asked what's the purpose of humanity the answer isn't .... sh1t.

I guess it's in how you think of things.. the human body contains trillions of cells. I guess one cell would be insignificant.. but none are without purpose, as cells are like humans. As a group they make organs, genetic material, etc. making each one significant and purpose serving. You could make the metaphor like, Think of us as bees. But without bees we would probably die, just as the universe (position of planets, temperatures, gravity, etc) is set up so that all variables work together to create life. So as speaking on the level of God.. What do you mean- are human beings on the level of God?

Without worshipers or people who made up the idea of God then what is God? I say that the universe isn't the universe without what's in the universe.. so everything in the universe is significant and serves at least the purpose of existence and interference with the rest of what makes of the universe. We could say that bacteria is god because we depend on them, and they were here before and will be after us. A God in the sense that you're speaking would transcendent to both space and time- but at the same time is dependent upon our knowledge of him in order be be classified as God.

Friend, I like this conversation, but on a philosophical standpoint, it seems you are confusing intentionality with purpose.

Humans CAN assign meaning to things. We can create art, religions, music, interpret emotions, observe through science, etc..

It doesn't mean with have a purpose. A cell doesn't have intentionality. It just is. We are the same, a collection of cells, atoms, etc..

If this entire planet were destroyed, and every bit of life extinguish, the universe wouldn't care.

 

[newarkhiphop]

Friend, I like this conversation, but on a philosophical standpoint, it seems you are confusing intentionality with purpose.

Humans CAN assign meaning to things. We can create art, religions, music, interpret emotions, observe through science, etc..

It doesn't mean with have a purpose. A cell doesn't have intentionality. It just is. We are the same, a collection of cells, atoms, etc..

If this entire planet were destroyed, and every bit of life extinguish, the universe wouldn't care.

Bbbbbbut we got thumbs

 

[Sierra Mist]

There is no purpose to humanity. We are nothing more than dust suspended in a sunbeam. Time and space laughs at humanity. Human's don't live very long and humanity hasn't been around that long either. Trillions of years have passed before humans existed and trillions of trillions more will pass long after we are extinct. Beyond that we are nothing in the universe and everyone knows that. We could take it past the Earth and solar system. Even if we were to take our cluster of galaxies and scale it to everything else our cluster is still nothing. This emptiness is normal. It is only in this microcosm of time and space that we are the exception. Life has no purpose. Life is the anomaly. Not death. Death is normal. Life is an accident. There really is no purpose. All humans are are viruses that became aware of their environments and in order to feel like their existence is justified people assigned artificial meanings to everything. Life is pointless. As far as the universe is concerned we're already dead.

 

[Blackking]

Friend, I like this conversation, but on a philosophical standpoint, it seems you are confusing intentionality with purpose.

Humans CAN assign meaning to things. We can create art, religions, music, interpret emotions, observe through science, etc..

It doesn't mean with have a purpose. A cell doesn't have intentionality. It just is. We are the same, a collection of cells, atoms, etc..

If this entire planet were destroyed, and every bit of life extinguish, the universe wouldn't care.

Ok friend. Just so you know I'm Not confusing intentionality with purpose. Your logic isn't connecting.

So to you, not having intentionality equals not having a purpose? And Because we are just a collection of trillions of cells (who don't have purpose), that means that we don't have a purpose? Why even bring up human intentionality, if you bring it up to say it doesn't mean we have a purpose, then turn around and say a cell doesn't have intentionality, it just is?

Also, how are we online singling out every idea and concept behind this subject when actual scientist haven't even began to understand, how the critical components that allow human intelligence, came to develop differently than chimpanzees and other apes?

Yes, we can assign reason to things, but we can't say there isn't a reason behind the organism that can assign reason and then pretend that the statement is fact, simply because we said it.

I agree that the 'universe' wouldn't care if the Earth was destroyed.. however, if we don't care about ants, does that make them any less significant to the Earth than humans? And exactly what would the 'universe' care about? If nothing, then your point is that nothing matters, i guess. And if nothing matters then what's the point in even having the perspective that you have on the subject?

 

[OsO]

Friend, I like this conversation, but on a philosophical standpoint, it seems you are confusing intentionality with purpose.

Humans CAN assign meaning to things. We can create art, religions, music, interpret emotions, observe through science, etc..

It doesn't mean with have a purpose. A cell doesn't have intentionality. It just is. We are the same, a collection of cells, atoms, etc..

If this entire planet were destroyed, and every bit of life extinguish, the universe wouldn't care.

you cant definitively say cells dont have a purpose, or life doesnt have a purpose, because that is simply your belief not a fact.

edit: and it is pretty weak to make a declarative statement like "A cell doesn't have intentionality." and then follow up with the conclusion, "It just is." lol cmon sun that is the cop out of all cop outs that literally answers every question, hence it answers no question.

 

[Urbanmiracle]

Purpose? Our purpose was the same as the dinosaur or the single celled organisms before them, to dominate and rule until something better evolves or some unforeseen outside force takes us out. But as humans we changed the game. Before you had to be the fastest or the loudest or the biggest with matching teeth or claws. Now you must out smart us.

 

[Fervid]

Quoting Einstein out of context does not help your case, black king.

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

Purpose? Our purpose was the same as the dinosaur or the single celled organisms before them, to dominate and rule until something better evolves or some unforeseen outside force takes us out. But as humans we changed the game. Before you had to be the fastest or the loudest or the biggest with matching teeth or claws. Now you must out smart us.

the thing is that along with intelligence comes arrogance, hubris and greed.

these vices take on a whole new dimension when intellect on a human scale is introduced.

 

[Urbanmiracle]

the thing is that along with intelligence comes arrogance, hubris and greed.

these vices take on a whole new dimension when intellect on a human scale is introduced.

Back stabbing, murder, and natural selection on an industrial scale?

 

[Dooby]

Humans are the most arrogant forms of life on this planet.

@ we are always trying to find a higher "purpose" or justification for our existence.

Irony is that there is none, you are here to live them die just like every other piece of life here,from a tree to whale. Deep down inside we all know that, from the most religious person to the most convinced atheist.

Just all in denial.

No, it is in fact, you, that is arrogant. Using your ignorance as a soap box to claim you actually know for a fact there is no purpose. Any person worth their salt would say they don't know whether we have or have not a purpose because that is fact, no one does.

So you can fukk right off.

 

[newarkhiphop]

No, it is in fact, you, that is arrogant. Using your ignorance as a soap box to claim you actually know for a fact there is no purpose. Any person worth their salt would say they don't know whether we have or have not a purpose because that is fact, no one does.

So you can fukk right off.

 

[Dooby]

ok what is the purpose of that childish emoticon? You coward, stand and defend your position instead of being an immature fakkit.