Purpose of humanity ?

[Liu Kang]

See, i'm on the fence here.
If you give any other specie on this planet infinite resource they'll use all of it that they can, while humans have to think differently. We constantly have to play a balancing act that nothing else does. We simply can't use all the coal or oil we wan't because we'll end up deading ourselfs. Same goes with many other resource. If silicon ever became scarce, we'd make a harder push to use a different material for our micro chips rather than use it till its gone. We act like this because we have a share global consciousness unlike say a fox or bear that would think the woods they live in is the entire universe.

You sure ? Facts prove the humans burn the ressources til they figure it won't last forever (when it's too late obviously) then find something else to replace it.

Oil is a pretty good example : we've been consuming that ressource like there wouldn't be no tomorrow then we found out their was a peak oil which was coming rather fast. And now in full panic mode we're looking for alternatives. The US government has now authorized shale gas explorations which is really harmful for earth but who cares, we too money-minded to see long-term consequences of our actions today.

Pollution is another point : we could talk about the Ozone depletion or the Kyoto's Protocol. The latter is still not ratified by the US, Canada and Russia which are one of the most polluting countries, they don't care if it's harmful or dangerous for the earth as long as they consider it's useful for their own benefits...
LINK : List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita, source : Wikipedia

For that reason, i like to roll with biblical understanding that we are more like the farmers of earth. We are here to keep order as we see it fit, or else we will all perish. Simply enough, nothing else knows or cares. Give any animal, say rats, infinite resource and they'll keep eating and multiplying none stop. Humans on the other hand, we actually aim to keep our counts low.. better put, birthrates decline almost exponentially with education and wealth.

I'm not really convinced honestly.
If you look at the US way of living (which every developping countries tend to go to) and its ecological footprint (impact of a country's way of living relative to earth biocapacity), it's mind-blowing : if the whole world was to live like the USA, we'd need 4 earths to fulfill everybody's needs (worst, if we were to mimick the UAE, we'd need 6 !). The point being, the more developping you tend to be, the more you tend to need.
In 2008, the whole world needed 1.4 earths to fulfill its needs. It was growing and already too much.

If you look at the following link, you could see that most developped countries are over their own biocapacity (meaning the total ressources that earth can produce, can be global or by countries)...
LINK : Ecological footprints relative to a country's biocapacity, source : footprintnetwork (for a lack of a unbiased one ?)

The image below shows every countries biocapacity relatively to earth's (which is 2.1).

Look at this graph. Earth biocapacity being at 2.1 hectares per capita, you can see that most of the developped countries (in Europe, North/Latin America and Asia) are on the right side, meaning they are using more that what Earth can provide.
LINK : Ecological footprint, source : Wikipedia for lack of a better one

Here's an interesting table stating most countries biocapacity and their ecological footprint :
LINK : List of countries by ecological footprint, source Wikipedia

And finally, an intersting read : Living Planet 2012 the WWF (this is a PDF).
LINK : http://awsassets.panda.org/downloads/1_lpr_2012_online_full_size_single_pages_final_120516.pdf
>>> Ecological footprints, from page 38 to page 69.

Our purpose seems to be maintain order in order to survive. Maybe homosexuality/zoo/pedophilia is subconsciously seen as disorderly conduct.. it disagrees with our need of shyt to be the same.. lined up.

Considering that you think we have a purpose, it's logical for you to think this way IMO so I can't disagree.

I mean even on a basic level, it makes me mad when i see a sexy lesbian cause its one less opportunity for me, even if was premeditated by life experience or even genetics, its not within the order.

You can't have them all !

 

[llt23]

another thing about finite resources is population. our world is becoming overpopulated, and population control might become a thing in the future (20-40 years down).

the gay kid wont reproduce. so if you dont like gays, at least remember they wont help contribute to overpopulation

 

[HoustonHeat]

The answer will vary, depending on what religion, if any, the person identifies with. We have higher thinking abilities, but that doesn't necessarily mean we serve a higher purpose.

I had once asked at a zen Buddhist center what the purpose of our existence was. A sir gave me a story where a monk was asked the same thing, and his answer was "to fart around"

I think we all exist, many suffer, many find joy, we have structures put in place to pass on our history and technology. But there is no divine purpose. We are just an occurance.

 

[Prodigital]

You sure ? Facts prove the humans burn the ressources til they figure it won't last forever (when it's too late obviously) then find something else to replace it.

Oil is a pretty good example : we've been consuming that ressource like there wouldn't be no tomorrow then we found out their was a peak oil which was coming rather fast. And now in full panic mode we're looking for alternatives. The US government has now authorized shale gas explorations which is really harmful for earth but who cares, we too money-minded to see long-term consequences of our actions today.

Pollution is another point : we could talk about the Ozone depletion or the Kyoto's Protocol. The latter is still not ratified by the US, Canada and Russia which are one of the most polluting countries, they don't care if it's harmful or dangerous for the earth as long as they consider it's useful for their own benefits...
LINK : List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita, source : Wikipedia


I'm not really convinced honestly.
If you look at the US way of living (which every developping countries tend to go to) and its ecological footprint (impact of a country's way of living relative to earth biocapacity), it's mind-blowing : if the whole world was to live like the USA, we'd need 4 earths to fulfill everybody's needs (worst, if we were to mimick the UAE, we'd need 6 !). The point being, the more developping you tend to be, the more you tend to need.
In 2008, the whole world needed 1.4 earths to fulfill its needs. It was growing and already too much.

If you look at the following link, you could see that most developped countries are over their own biocapacity (meaning the total ressources that earth can produce, can be global or by countries)...
LINK : Ecological footprints relative to a country's biocapacity, source : footprintnetwork (for a lack of a unbiased one ?)

The image below shows every countries biocapacity relatively to earth's (which is 2.1).

Look at this graph. Earth biocapacity being at 2.1 hectares per capita, you can see that most of the developped countries (in Europe, North/Latin America and Asia) are on the right side, meaning they are using more that what Earth can provide.
LINK : Ecological footprint, source : Wikipedia for lack of a better one

Here's an interesting table stating most countries biocapacity and their ecological footprint :
LINK : List of countries by ecological footprint, source Wikipedia

And finally, an intersting read : Living Planet 2012 the WWF (this is a PDF).
LINK : http://awsassets.panda.org/downloads/1_lpr_2012_online_full_size_single_pages_final_120516.pdf
>>> Ecological footprints, from page 38 to page 69.


Considering that you think we have a purpose, it's logical for you to think this way IMO so I can't disagree.



You can't have them all !

Interesting stuff breh.. I cosign the truth in your post... Still though, do you feel we don't have a purpose?

Meaning is subjective, but continuing our existence is a purpose in itself. On the grand scale of things, nothing matters, including how many times we fold our bio capacity, i mean if a black hole came through and crushed the buildings its not like anything on earth is gonna leave a legacy.

America's blatant none giving a fukk about the earth is amazing... but i think in the long run of things, we do want whats better for the planet because its also for ourselves. And we simply haven't had the option to do better. There hasn't been a alternative to oil within reason. If hydrogen engines costed as much as gas, there wouldn't be a debate on what to use, but the general populous moves slow in adopted new technology, thus it compounds the cost before the price break and it doesn't become a viable option.


Still, on the other hand, none humans wouldn't have a benefit to choosing one choice over the other. "Should i eat that zebra or eat that buffalo?" A lion would never question that or consider its resources when planning what to eat, its all about which is easier. We as people have fundamental questions to ask, whether its fossil fuels vs solar or paper vs plastic (or in the case of homosexuality..... ). One could be easier, but it could eventually lead to our own death as a species... which is my point, no animal is ever gonna make a decision that's not immediately beneficial to its life regardless of the long run consequence. I think this makes us different and gives us a meaning, if not just a very very different approach to survival... one that governs the way we live.

 

[Blackking]

continuing our existence is a purpose in itself.

none humans wouldn't have a benefit to choosing one choice over the other. "Should i eat that zebra or eat that buffalo?" A lion would never question that or consider its resources when planning what to eat. We as people have fundamental questions to ask, whether its fossil fuels vs solar or paper vs plastic (or in the case of homosexuality..... ). One could be easier, but it could eventually lead to our own death as a species... which is my point, no animal is ever gonna make a decision that's not immediately beneficial to its life regardless of the long run consequence. I think this makes us different and gives us a meaning, if not just a very very different approach to survival... one that governs the way we live.

ummm. i agree.

 

[Liu Kang]

[...] Still though, do you feel we don't have a purpose?

Meaning is subjective, but continuing our existence is a purpose in itself. On the grand scale of things, nothing matters, including how many times we fold our bio capacity, i mean if a black hole came through and crushed the buildings its not like anything on earth is gonna leave a legacy.

Well, I just don't think that we have to perpetuate ourselves... It's just a possibility that we can choose to do IMO.

America's blatant none giving a fukk about the earth is amazing... but i think in the long run of things, we do want whats better for the planet because its also for ourselves. And we simply haven't had the option to do better. There hasn't been a alternative to oil within reason. If hydrogen engines costed as much as gas, there wouldn't be a debate on what to use, but the general populous moves slow in adopted new technology, thus it compounds the cost before the price break and it doesn't become a viable option.

We do have the option to do better, we don't want to change because it will hurt our pockets.
Of course, we have a strong inertia which refrains us to evolve fast but there is a part which is legitimate and the other which is simply due to the will of some people/corporations/industries that can't evolve that fast and need that slow tempo in order to proceed to change their policies and keep their benefits.

It's both political and economical. The US was and still is the leader of the world today (well China may be in the future but it's not for today) so when Bush decided not to ratify Kyoto's protocol, it was a stong signal to the world : the US economy is more important than the environnement. Of course, he was not alone to do so, but it's a strong symbol. Therefore, why would developing countries have limited ther carbon emissions if the #1 country doesn't ?

In the following speech, he basically said that a change was to come only if it was in the benefit of the US. Money over environnement while time is against us...
LINK : President Bush's Speech on Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Climate Change, April 2008 - Council on Foreign Relations

Still, on the other hand, none humans wouldn't have a benefit to choosing one choice over the other. "Should i eat that zebra or eat that buffalo?" A lion would never question that or consider its resources when planning what to eat, its all about which is easier. We as people have fundamental questions to ask, whether its fossil fuels vs solar or paper vs plastic (or in the case of homosexuality..... ). One could be easier, but it could eventually lead to our own death as a species... which is my point, no animal is ever gonna make a decision that's not immediately beneficial to its life regardless of the long run consequence. I think this makes us different and gives us a meaning, if not just a very very different approach to survival... one that governs the way we live.

I get what you mean.
But animals can die from intoxications when choosing their meal. Some prepare winter by stocking food while others hibernate. Some do have some sense of the future. But when you say "long-run consequence", it's kinda subjective because how long is it ? Months, years, decades ?
Because as a whole specie, I still think that we are still close to animals when facing our future.

We surely can make hypothesis for 100 years from now, because we can think like that and that great thing differentiates us from animals but that's just abstract. What we do and how we act to satify our needs is still defined by our short-term "survival". And acts matters in the grand scheme of things.
If we were that great at making clever / long-term decisions we would be using green energy for decades now, but nope. Why ? Because oil/gas was and still are easier/cheaper means. We don't manage earth, we thrive on it.

I always have this simple equation in my mind : earth can "live" without humans but humans can't. Matter of fact, Earth is in worth state since we humans achieved our industrial revolution.
We're not "needed" on earth, IMO, we're just here.

 

[newarkhiphop]

Now think of us as humans.

ah there is that human arrogance again, but mother nature proves to us all the time that in the grand scope of things we really nothing but ants

 

[Type Username Here]

ah there is that human arrogance again, but mother nature proves to us all the time that in the grand scope of things we really nothing but ants

You're being too kind by using the word ant even.

 

[Serious]

You're being too kind by using the word ant even.

uni cell organisms?

 

[Blackking]

You're being too kind by using the word ant even.

@newarkhiphop

lol, you all are ridiculous. Don't point out any typos because I have to type this quick.. But this is what I think about the ant comment.....



Human arrogance is not equivalent to stating the obvious. We aren't simple organisms.

If we were only meant to be born and die, then what was the purpose of our existence in the first place? You can't say that we don't have a purpose because our very existence negates that idea. I GUESS you could argue that our purpose is an illusion (I was forced to argue from this retarded pov in college). The Universe is in between other universes.. our Sun has planets and stars around it and we are positioned in the precise point that allows organisms to flourish on Earth. Just because there may be other galaxies with billions of solar systems all with life, doesn't mean that all life is insignificant here on Earth.

You can't say the evolution of our complex thinking capacity was necessary and random. You can't say that most of the things that distinguish us from other organisms is necessary, if all we are here for is to live and die. We have thumbs and we walk upright. We naturally have everything we would need to fight against and hunt other organisms to survive without needed advanced thought - so why are we out here doing great things such as building space stations and saying retarded things such as .. "think of us as ants"? ,

IF the Universe was formed by random events with no conscious catalyst behind it then what was the purpose of conscious organisms forming? And do we yet understand how something intelligent can originate from something inanimate? I'm not going to look at random theories in relativity, physics, etc and pretend to know exactly how the random universe randomly formed. Einstein said "My God does not play with dice"... And I don't think events just happen at random and that complex organisms are insignificant. Also, you don't need religion to see the obvious. You don't need religion to feel better about yourself and about the universe because religion doesn't have all the answers, the universe does; but we have no way of knowing everything. Because we have no way of knowing everything, some people need things to console them and make them feel better.

Some people use religion for that purpose (which is not the purpose of religion) and Some people use theories and the elite road of atheism (knowing 300% that the universe came from the random bang bang). We can make idiot comparisons to ants to console us into thinking- that with enough experimentation, loose theories, assumptions and examining of Higgs Bostons we will know all the answers. The more we learn, the more we know that the universe has millions of variables that came together to support our existence. Importance and significant are taking out of context because different POV's need different definitions to support those pov's...

there's a reason that the punishment for raping a human child is worse than raping a young animal. We are not ants. Human's can manipulate the ecosystem and destroy the environment. We can save animal species and observe the universe. Animals react purely on instinct... I guess we are ants and it was on pure instinct to create the internet to debate about the universe that created us.

 

[Type Username Here]

@newarkhiphop

lol, you all are ridiculous. Don't point out any typos because I have to type this quick.. But this is what I think about the ant comment.....



Human arrogance is not equivalent to stating the obvious. We aren't simple organisms.

If we were only meant to be born and die, then what was the purpose of our existence in the first place? You can't say that we don't have a purpose because our very existence negates that idea. I GUESS you could argue that our purpose is an illusion (I was forced to argue from this retarded pov in college). The Universe is in between other universes.. our Sun has planets and stars around it and we are positioned in the precise point that allows organisms to flourish on Earth. Just because there may be other galaxies with billions of solar systems all with life, doesn't mean that all life is insignificant here on Earth.

You can't say the evolution of our complex thinking capacity was necessary and random. You can't say that most of the things that distinguish us from other organisms is necessary, if all we are here for is to live and die. We have thumbs and we walk upright. We naturally have everything we would need to fight against and hunt other organisms to survive without needed advanced thought - so why are we out here doing great things such as building space stations and saying retarded things such as .. "think of us as ants"? ,

IF the Universe was formed by random events with no conscious catalyst behind it then what was the purpose of conscious organisms forming? And do we yet understand how something intelligent can originate from something inanimate? I'm not going to look at random theories in relativity, physics, etc and pretend to know exactly how the random universe randomly formed. Einstein said "My God does not play with dice"... And I don't think events just happen at random and that complex organisms are insignificant. Also, you don't need religion to see the obvious. You don't need religion to feel better about yourself and about the universe because religion doesn't have all the answers, the universe does; but we have no way of knowing everything. Because we have no way of knowing everything, some people need things to console them and make them feel better.

Some people use religion for that purpose (which is not the purpose of religion) and Some people use theories and the elite road of atheism (knowing 300% that the universe came from the random bang bang). We can make idiot comparisons to ants to console us into thinking- that with enough experimentation, loose theories, assumptions and examining of Higgs Bostons we will know all the answers. The more we learn, the more we know that the universe has millions of variables that came together to support our existence. Importance and significant are taking out of context because different POV's need different definitions to support those pov's...

there's a reason that the punishment for raping a human child is worse than raping a young animal. We are not ants. Human's can manipulate the ecosystem and destroy the environment. We can save animal species and observe the universe. Animals react purely on instinct... I guess we are ants and it was on pure instinct to create the internet to debate about the universe that created us.

Friend, we didn't say humans are ants. We said humans are ants in the grand scheme of things, ESPECIALLY if you believe in a theism, such as yourself.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you about atheism, religion, etc. I

Let's assume for a second that I believe what you did blackking, are you saying that human beings are on the level of your God?

 

[OsO]

to live and learn and live and learn and live and learn and live and learn

 

[newarkhiphop]

@newarkhiphop

lol, you all are ridiculous. Don't point out any typos because I have to type this quick.. But this is what I think about the ant comment.....



Human arrogance is not equivalent to stating the obvious. We aren't simple organisms.

If we were only meant to be born and die, then what was the purpose of our existence in the first place? You can't say that we don't have a purpose because our very existence negates that idea. I GUESS you could argue that our purpose is an illusion (I was forced to argue from this retarded pov in college). The Universe is in between other universes.. our Sun has planets and stars around it and we are positioned in the precise point that allows organisms to flourish on Earth. Just because there may be other galaxies with billions of solar systems all with life, doesn't mean that all life is insignificant here on Earth.

You can't say the evolution of our complex thinking capacity was necessary and random. You can't say that most of the things that distinguish us from other organisms is necessary, if all we are here for is to live and die. We have thumbs and we walk upright. We naturally have everything we would need to fight against and hunt other organisms to survive without needed advanced thought - so why are we out here doing great things such as building space stations and saying retarded things such as .. "think of us as ants"? ,


there's a reason that the punishment for raping a human child is worse than raping a young animal. We are not ants. Human's can manipulate the ecosystem and destroy the environment. We can save animal species and observe the universe. Animals react purely on instinct... I guess we are ants and it was on pure instinct to create the internet to debate about the universe that created us.

Only going to address the relevant stuff , don't want to get bogged down with religion at the moment. Like TYPE said in the grand scheme of things when you look at how many other universes there are out their , solar systems, planets, stars, moons etc etc We human being are merely ants , the reason I chose ants is because when people think of ants some people think of them by there size, they are small we can all agree on that, others think of them by there ability to organize and how strong they are for there size , sort of like us to achieve one common goal when we have to we put our collective physical and mental strengths together, again i think we can all for the most part agree on that, BUT even with this strength we like ants can be stepped on and destroyed by mother nature (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanoes) etc etc. That's why i called us ants.


What so great about some of the things that other organisms on this planet have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years lol NATURALLY that we try to take credit for like its some type of achievement ??

O we have airplanes that can fly?. There have been birds and other winged animals flying way before us

O we vessels that go underwater.? There have been fish and other animals swimming way before us

Tons of other examples


o what do you think cause we created the "internet" which is nothing more than a advanced form of communication we are special? lol there are whales right now that can communicate underwater hundred of miles apart , wirelessly, if you want to speak in technical terms.

Am end it like this though

Honestly when you REALLLLLLLLLY think it about it what have we done with this "great thought" you speak so highly about

What other beings on our planet has murdered, massacred and abused there own kind like we have?

What other being on our planet has killed other animals in the sheer volume like we have, FOR FUN

What other being since the creation of this earth, however that came to be, has caused more damage to the environment ?


There is nothing complex or special about us, and the end of the day we nothing but a well put together mass of atoms and particles like every other single thing on planet earth and the universe, stop being so full of yourself.

 

[Liu Kang]

[...]
Human arrogance is not equivalent to stating the obvious. We aren't simple organisms.

In regard of what ? Where do you place the boundary between simple/complex ?
We test our chemicals on mice, porks and stuff because they resemble us. Between humans, we have a 99.5% similarities, but we still are 96+% similar to chimps. Like animals we have trillions of cells.
Where do you draw the line ? DNA ? Behaviors ? Feelings ? Thinking ? Intelligence ?
I agree that we are a little more complex than animals which are a little more complex than vegetals which are a little more complex than minerals.
OK, but why minerals aren't complex to you ?

If we were only meant to be born and die, then what was the purpose of our existence in the first place?

Why does there need to be one ?
You don't think that some things can just "be" without any purpose to them ? Chaos can't be a legitimate answer to you ?

You can't say that we don't have a purpose because our very existence negates that idea. I GUESS you could argue that our purpose is an illusion (I was forced to argue from this retarded pov in college). The Universe is in between other universes.. our Sun has planets and stars around it and we are positioned in the precise point that allows organisms to flourish on Earth.

Our position in the solar system led to the first signs of what we call "life", of course. But we were not created/set AT this specific place.
Life appeared like 3.5+ billions years ago. The Homo genus is like 2.5 millions years old. What's a milly to a billy ?
And Homo Sapiens (humans as we are now) is only 200K years old...

Just because there may be other galaxies with billions of solar systems all with life, doesn't mean that all life is insignificant here on Earth.
You can't say the evolution of our complex thinking capacity was necessary and random. You can't say that most of the things that distinguish us from other organisms is necessary, if all we are here for is to live and die. We have thumbs and we walk upright. We naturally have everything we would need to fight against and hunt other organisms to survive without needed advanced thought - so why are we out here doing great things such as building space stations and saying retarded things such as .. "think of us as ants"? ,

IF the Universe was formed by random events with no conscious catalyst behind it then what was the purpose of conscious organisms forming? And do we yet understand how something intelligent can originate from something inanimate? I'm not going to look at random theories in relativity, physics, etc and pretend to know exactly how the random universe randomly formed. Einstein said "My God does not play with dice"... And I don't think events just happen at random and that complex organisms are insignificant.
[...]

The differences in our views lies here.
1. You link complexity to a necessary design leading to a purpose.
But complexity is an arbitrary notion and relative to what ?
Are we complex in regard to the solar system ? To the universe ? To the infinitely great ? Or to the infinitesimal ? To the quantum system ?
I'm not saying we aren't complex, just that we don't (and can't) know if we are and there are no proof of it.

2. Then you draw a line between human and animal to define complexity. Well OK, you gotta draw it to define something... but why not between vegetal and animal ? Why not between inanimate and living ?
Or better, why draw a line ?

 

[Blackking]

Only going to address the relevant stuff , don't want to get bogged down with religion at the moment. Like TYPE said in the grand scheme of things when you look at how many other universes there are out their , solar systems, planets, stars, moons etc etc We human being are merely ants , the reason I chose ants is because when people think of ants some people think of them by there size, they are small we can all agree on that, others think of them by there ability to organize and how strong they are for there size , sort of like us to achieve one common goal when we have to we put our collective physical and mental strengths together, again i think we can all for the most part agree on that, BUT even with this strength we like ants can be stepped on and destroyed by mother nature (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanoes) etc etc. That's why i called us ants.


What so great about some of the things that other organisms on this planet have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years lol NATURALLY that we try to take credit for like its some type of achievement ??

O we have airplanes that can fly?. There have been birds and other winged animals flying way before us

O we vessels that go underwater.? There have been fish and other animals swimming way before us

Tons of other examples


o what do you think cause we created the "internet" which is nothing more than a advanced form of communication we are special? lol there are whales right now that can communicate underwater hundred of miles apart , wirelessly, if you want to speak in technical terms.

Am end it like this though

Honestly when you REALLLLLLLLLY think it about it what have we done with this "great thought" you speak so highly about

What other beings on our planet has murdered, massacred and abused there own kind like we have?

What other being on our planet has killed other animals in the sheer volume like we have, FOR FUN

What other being since the creation of this earth, however that came to be, has caused more damage to the environment ?


There is nothing complex or special about us, and the end of the day we nothing but a well put together mass of atoms and particles like every other single thing on planet earth and the universe, stop being so full of yourself.

If you attend a biology class then you will know what is special about human beings. Our significance in the universe is debatable. But forget about bugs for a sec. To even compare us to our closet relatives is ridiculous. You can call the internet just advanced communication, but that only means that you don't understand the creation of the internet. You can say that birds can fly so it's nothing special that human beings can fly is just ... i don't even know what to say. I will say that human being don't just fly on Earth, we go to space. And pointing that out isn't Arrogance. How is it being "full of yourself", to point out basic facts? I don't fly planes, but to have the capacity to understand fluid mechanics, drift, drag, and lift is way beyond anything other organisms can do. But that's not even the point.. the desire and the introspective nature that leads humans to want to build space stations and go beyond Earth to find out where life my be in these other billions of solar systems.. We aren't doing all this based on instinct. Ants build cities and organize based on natural instinct. That is the reason it's retarded to compare basic instinct to other human qualities, simply because we also want to kill organisms in mass. The fact that you are even know what human actions are barbaric, is significant. Sh!t, The fact that we even have motivations to kill organism in mass is significant.