Prime KG or Prime Drob?

[mastermind]

KG has a lot of point forward in his game.I can see if I said Duncan.You filling them with octane, breh

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Doggy, Seems like you're saying this like Terry Cummings was a baller. Is that the same Terry Cummings averaging 22/8 with his team winning 21 games?

Someone please...I...I...I c...I can't!
Clones just looking at numbers instead of impact. The Cedric Ceballos Syndrome. No wonder you 're voting KG

Cummings averaged 22/8 the same year I was referring to. DRob's rookie year: 1989-90 San Antonio Spurs Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Okay i have a fair Question for you:
WHat was the biggest complaint about KG in Minnesota?

He couldnt go far enough in the playoffs and didnt assert himself enough in the clutch.

I have a fair question for you

Who would you take..Sean Elliot or Wally Scissors?

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

I'm still laughing at the dude @VMR bringing up Terry Cummings' 22/8 season
What's next? Cedric Ceballos was a great player? and so was Charles Smith?

Terry Cummings NBA & ABA Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

7 years over 20 ppg and an all star. Check his numbers in the playoffs too. Maybe you shouldnt be talking since you didnt watch him in his prime

 

[FTBS]

KG being the GOAT? No way.If this was somebody that KG couldn't fukk with like Dream or Shaq, I'd bow out.

But D Rob?

But he's more versatile than them. They aren't 5 tool players like him. .

 

[Goatpoacher]

I don't understand the KG hatred that some credible posters display here. Look past his bullshyt antics on the court, he's clearly a great player and was second only to TD in terms of PF's, and third as a big man overall in the post jordan era.

I also don't understand why he is still being ripped for having bullshyt teams like it was his fault the Twolves were retarded. Whenever he had decent players, he overachieved. Look at the defensive impact even an old ass KG had 2-3 years ago. Alot of the same players who claim Dirk is better because hes' a true #1 option even though Dirk's had a similar career without playing any defense.

This is a comparison thread. Both D-Rob and KG are all time greats, both failed to achieve success until they got better teammates, and both were shytted on by their peers in playoff series. If the question is who to start a team with, I think KG is like a Lebron where you can put talented teammates around him and he will make it work, as opposed to D-Rob who needs a specific type of teammate (mainly, a 6'11 PF who happens to be the greatest PF of all time).

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

When you're a big man who's as versaitle as KG..who's clearly more talented than the rest of your teammates... you damn near become a point forward by default.

 

[invincible1914]

Yes, Garnett was the better defender. Don't get me wrong, it's a close comparison because DRob is in the top 5 defensively of all-time too, but Garnett is higher IMO. He covered more space defensively and was the superior pick-n-roll defender (probably the best in league history). DRob was the better rim protector but that's it, Garnett covered the whole floor and is one of the best zone defenders in league history.

I couldn't care less about block and steals numbers. It doesn't prove anything.

Lol, longevity plays a HUGE part in their both careers. DRob came into the league late, and missed a full season in his prime.

Lol, same age DRob was better. I don't even agree with it, they're basically the same players but lol at totally ignoring the fact that Garnett has logged what, 400+ games more than DRob at this stage compared to what DRob had done at the same age

What? Garnett posted the higher rebounding percentage, they're off by 0.3 % for their careers.. and KG has played 400 more games. DRob posted a 17.4 TRB % for his prime (89-98), while KG posted a 18.3 TRB % between 1998-2008. He was clearly a superior rebounder for his career.

So you don't think shooting is a distinct advantage for KG? He's one of the best mid-range shooting bigs of all-time, DRob was not. Better FT shooter too. He flat out was the far better shooter.

There are three years in which play-by-play data is found for DRob.. He shot a combined 34.3 % from 16 feet out to the 3pt line. Garnett shot 45.2 % from the same area.. for his full career. DRob was not a shooter, at all.

I stopped reading right there....






Sorry

 

[SwagKingKong]

I stopped reading right there....

Good for you. Now go back in your bubble where Camby and Iverson are elite defenders.

Smh.

 

[Goatpoacher]

Good for you. Now go back in your bubble where Camby and Iverson are elite defenders.

Smh.

LOL. Somebody needs to pull up KG's defensive rating. Even in 2009-2011, KG had one of the biggest defensive differentials in the league.

 

[wizworld]

This is a ridiculous comparison. David Robinson's HOF legacy is a casualty of Hakeem Olajuwon & Tim Duncan's basketball geniuses. KG was never as dominant as The Admiral in his prime.
And if the Spurs had more scoring options during his prime, The Admiral's boards and blocks would have shot up considerably.
What could KG do that the Admiral couldn't? Let's not act like Olajuwon wouldn't have ate KG's food too.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

But he's more versatile than them. They aren't 5 tool players like him. .

You put Shaq or Dream on a mediocre team(Say like the Suns this year) and they make it all the way to the Finals and probably win it.

D Rob would get them to the 2nd round..maybe.That '94-'95 San Antonio team was arguably more talented than the '94-'95 Rockets, but D Rob just didn't have it in him

 

[Malta]

Yes, the T'Wolves were not top 5 defensively and the closest they got was in 2004, when they were ranked top 6. This is also the year that he finally got some help, what does this tell you? Or what do you believe happened when he arrived in Boston? And lead that team to the greatest defensive rating in league history, what exactly does that tell you? Did he magically turn into a monster defensively late in his career? Why exactly are Boston so great defensively? Why are the Nets several points better per a 100 possessions defensively with KG on the floor?

This is complete and utter bullshyt right here, again, the rosters around David Robinson when they were top 5 weren't very good, especially not from a defensive personnel standpoint. So that was all KG in Boston, and had nothing to do with the coach, who also by chance also seems to magically have the Bulls as mainstays among the top 5 defensively. Do you ever think that maybe, just maybe Thibs helped Garnett become a better team defender? He was a great individual defender in Minnesota, but team defense is where big man should have a major impact. Also, that wasn't the greatest defensive rating in league history stop with the hyperbole breh

Garnett was a better defender in Minny, yet he only anchored top defenses late in his career. This is because it takes a competent team to be a top defense, it does NOT take a player. You can't have Flip Saunders as a coach and a bunch of d-leaguers and expect KG to lead a top 5 defense, that's laughable. Not even Bill Russell would be able to do that. You're focusing on team results, which is stupid when there is on/off data on KGs impact defensively. There are advanced stats like RAPM that shows that KG was the best defender of his generation and would easily slide him into a top 3 defender of all-time. Like I said, DRob was fantastic defensively, one of the best of all-time. But Garnett was overall more impactful defensively.

Oh, so now they were a bunch of D-leaguers playing with KG. The amount of excuses for this dude are incredible, he's gotta be the Teflon Don of the NBA. Garnett was a better individual defender in Minnie, yet why is it every great defensive big in history could power their teams to top 5 defenses regardless of what garbage may have been around them at the time, everyone except KG of course.

I also like how you completely disregard anything Garnett did with Boston defensively, why are you not using those teams as examples for great defenses his lead? They were routinely in the top 5 and that's with KG anchoring the defense. What do you think would've happened if he played with a team like Boston in his prime / peak?

Because that has more to do with Thibs taking advantage of the zone principles than it does just 1 singular player, it's why the Bulls looks so great defensively now regardless of who is in the lineup.

No, because blocks and steals are horrible ways to measure defensive impact. It's the reason why Camby has won a DPOY. You don't want to base your argument on those stats.

Uh, what? I've clearly made my case around Robinson anchoring more top defensive teams than KG, the blocks and steals are just the icing on the cake. You'd have a point if Camby was always on a top 10 defensive team, but he wasn't. Robinson's ridiculous amount of blocks and steals came while he was anchoring the leagues best defense several times, something Hakeem did as well, we gonna throw out the Dreams blocks and steals next?

Eh, minutes per game, why do you not comprehend that it matters? Also, postseason numbers? Look at KG, his PER is over 20 this postseason. Also, Garnett measured out as the 2nd best defender in the league this year, behind Larry Sanders (who only played like 20 games) according to adjusted +/- . I don't look at ppg, rpg and bpg to make a judgement on a player, especially when you refuse to place numbers within its context.

So, you're going to bring up PER, but fail to mention that David Robinsons PER when he was 37 was higher than Garnetts, despite playing more minutes. I don't want to hear about playoff PER either, he's played 7 games, Robinson's team won the title and he played 23 playoff games that year, so brag about his playoff PER when they are done.

@ KG being the 2nd best defender based on +/-, breh you're just reaching for straws here. Is Garnett a better defender than Hakeem?

I'm not sure if you're joking with me or not at this point. Do you not realize that it matters that Garnett came out of high school, while DRob joined the NBA when he was 24 and therefore has played 400 more games than KG at the same age? How does this not matter? You're using rebounding percentage over the course of their career and that is absoutely stupid considering Garnett came in younger AND played as a small forward his first two years. Honestly, I thought you was a knowledgeable poster. How can you refuse to accept that Garnett was the better rebounder? Its facts. Garnett has the higher rebounding percentage over his prime / peak. You're basically penalizing Garnett for coming in early in the league, which is just stupid.

All you're doing is posting stats, now you want to throw out a stat because it doesn't show Garnett as superior. I don't care how many more games he's played, Robinson's rebound rate is higher, you do nothing but posts stats then reject the ones you don't like. You cannot use stats like that, then turn around on some "But but but" shyt, you're either in or out. In one response you're talking about the number of games played, then in another you're bigging up KG's PER for the playoffs after only 7 games be consistent.

Ok, this just shows that you don't understand the importance of spacing. Yes, in todays league you absolutely want your bigs to be able to shoot the ball. Its the reason why prime Garnett measures out so well offensively in advanced stats, he's basically having an elite impact and that has alot to do with his ability to shoot. Just the threat of him being able to hit jumpers makes defenses stretch out which leads to open lanes for perimeter players. This is basic stuff. You don't want your PF clogging up the lane, which is exactly what he didn't. Garnett was ahead of his time with his game, look at all the PFs coming in to todays league, they try to play like KG.

Garnett was hoisting up long range jumpers prior to the zone rules, back when Tim Duncan & Shaq were murdering people in the post. You don't seem to get the difference between a big man taking a 15 and in jumper, and a nikka living and dying with 16-23 footers, long 2s are the worst shots in basketball and that was the bulk of Garnetts offense. I could see if he was hitting 3s and stretching the floor out to the 3 line, but he was taking the worst shot in basketball and you're applauding that, and not even getting the correlation between that and why Duncan was better. In todays NBA, we currently have Al Jefferson, he shot 35% on 16-23ft shots, and you're saying that Robinson who shot 34% on those shots after his hernia wouldn't be as effective today? Please, he would fit right into todays game and nobody would be able to stop him, if Jefferson can score 21ppg, what would Robinson do

I understand that DRobs game worked very well in the 90s. It really did. But Garnetts offensive game is built for the league he's playing in. Both of them did were really good offensive players.

Like a 7'1" guy who could hit the 15 footer, post up and run the floor like a gazelle wouldn't be good today. He'd be more effective today than Garnett, considering there isn't a center in the league right now that can match up to him physically. Robinson in the NBA today would be the 2nd tallest center (7'1" WITHOUT shoes), the most skilled, the most athletic and have one of the highest IQs, yet KG would be better? Who gonna stop him, Hibbert, Dwight?

 

[Goatpoacher]

Wilt:

D-Rob was great and you are right that he would be hands down the best center in the league today. But isn't it possible that Centers are not that important today? With the modern perimeter league, wouldn't a flexible defender like KG be more valuable? Just remember, in and around 2002-2004, KG was the only player who slowed down TMac and Kobe back when nobody else could.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Doggy, Seems like you're saying this like Terry Cummings was a baller. Is that the same Terry Cummings averaging 22/8 with his team winning 21 games?

Someone please...I...I...I c...I can't!
Clones just looking at numbers instead of impact. The Cedric Ceballos Syndrome. No wonder you 're voting KG

He might have averaged that for the Bucks......But I don't remember Terry averaging that for the Spurs.....Could be wrong tho....Bottom line is, he wasn't a force like that with San Antonio