This is complete and utter bullshyt right here, again, the rosters around David Robinson when they were top 5 weren't very good, especially not from a defensive personnel standpoint. So that was all KG in Boston, and had nothing to do with the coach, who also by chance also seems to magically have the Bulls as mainstays among the top 5 defensively. Do you ever think that maybe, just maybe Thibs helped Garnett become a better team defender? He was a great individual defender in Minnesota, but team defense is where big man should have a major impact. Also, that wasn't the greatest defensive rating in league history stop with the hyperbole breh
Oh, Thibs helped KG? So what you're saying is that Garnett turned into a better defender in Boston? That's bullshyt. He was clearly a better defender in Minny. The Thibs argument is horrible considering Celtics were elite defensively years after Thibs left. And don't tell me Doc was running Thibs stuff and that's the reason, if so, then Doc should have Clippers elite defensively, which they aren't. It was never about Thibs, it was about KG. Sure, Thibs helped but Garnett was the anchor and leader on the floor. Look at the on/off splits. Why did the defense fall apart without KG if Thibs was the reason?
Lol at the "he was a great individual defender in Minnesota". Yes he was. But he was an even better team defender. He was the reason why Flip got away with playing a zone for years there, because Garnett was used at the top of the key and disrupting the offense with his length and athleticism and was quick enough to recover if they got past the zone.
Just answer me this, why the fukk were Minnesota all of a sudden a top 6 defense in 2004? Does that not show you that rosters play a huge part in this?
Oh, so now they were a bunch of D-leaguers playing with KG. The amount of excuses for this dude are incredible, he's gotta be the Teflon Don of the NBA. Garnett was a better individual defender in Minnie, yet why is it every great defensive big in history could power their teams to top 5 defenses regardless of what garbage may have been around them at the time, everyone except KG of course.
Yes, he played with a bunch of d-leaguers. It's the reason why you can barely find any player with more ridiculous raw +/- numbers than KG. This is not excuses, these are facts. He did play for one of the worst organizations in league history, he did play for a GM who got busted for making illegal deals and lost three first rounders because of this. It was a horrible franchise that had horrible rosters. These are facts, not excuses.
Because that has more to do with Thibs taking advantage of the zone principles than it does just 1 singular player, it's why the Bulls looks so great defensively now regardless of who is in the lineup.
How did Boston stay elite defensively without Thibs then? Why were the Nets elite defensively with KG on the floor this year? Let me guess, Thibs? If so, why aren't every other player Thibs has coached having an elite impact defensively?
Uh, what? I've clearly made my case around Robinson anchoring more top defensive teams than KG, the blocks and steals are just the icing on the cake. You'd have a point if Camby was always on a top 10 defensive team, but he wasn't. Robinson's ridiculous amount of blocks and steals came while he was anchoring the leagues best defense several times, something Hakeem did as well, we gonna throw out the Dreams blocks and steals next?
Ok, that's your case. Let me then ask you, do you believe that Nash is the GOAT offensive players? Because he anchored the GOAT offensive team of all-time and IIRC, 6 of the top 10 offenses in league history. Is Nash the GOAT offensive player? Or did he play with some really talented offensive players? Be consistent.
Or let me put it like this, is Nash a better offensive player than Kobe? According to your logic, he should be. Be consistent now.
So, you're going to bring up PER, but fail to mention that David Robinsons PER when he was 37 was higher than Garnetts, despite playing more minutes. I don't want to hear about playoff PER either, he's played 7 games, Robinson's team won the title and he played 23 playoff games that year, so brag about his playoff PER when they are done.
Will do.
@ KG being the 2nd best defender based on +/-, breh you're just reaching for straws here. Is Garnett a better defender than Hakeem?
Not +/-, adjusted plus minus. which adjusts for lineups, teammates, coaching etc. The far best defensive stat you'll find. Dismiss it though, because it will probably not support your biased opinion in all cases.
Not sure about being better than Hakeem, it's close. I have Russell, Hakeem and KG in the top 3, I think. But yeah, it's close.
All you're doing is posting stats, now you want to throw out a stat because it doesn't show Garnett as superior. I don't care how many more games he's played, Robinson's rebound rate is higher, you do nothing but posts stats then reject the ones you don't like. You cannot use stats like that, then turn around on some "But but but" shyt, you're either in or out.
Yeah, don't contextualize stats! Use them in a vacuum!
Let's have some fun with your logic: Dominique Wilkins is a better scorer than Kareem.
Why? Because he played a shorter career and his averages werent penalized because of this. Makes zero sense, but according to you, this is how it played out. No excuses. I don't care if Kareem played more games. This is exactly what you're doing with their rebounding rate.
You're being stubborn, or stupid. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're being stubborn and refuse to admit that Garnett was the better rebounder. But you might also be stupid and actually believe that we're better off not trying to contextualize numbers.
Go ahead and believe that DRob was the better rebounder, when KG played two seasons at SF to begin his career, and has a total of 400 more out of his prime games compared to DRob.. and yet their career averages are 0.3 % off.. Also, Garnett peaked higher and has way more impressive numbers during his whole prime. But those teenage years is the evidence of DRob being a better rebounder
Garnett was hoisting up long range jumpers prior to the zone rules, back when Tim Duncan & Shaq were murdering people in the post. You don't seem to get the difference between a big man taking a 15 and in jumper, and a nikka living and dying with 16-23 footers, long 2s are the worst shots in basketball and that was the bulk of Garnetts offense. I could see if he was hitting 3s and stretching the floor out to the 3 line, but he was taking the worst shot in basketball and you're applauding that, and not even getting the correlation between that and why Duncan was better. In todays NBA, we currently have Al Jefferson, he shot 35% on 16-23ft shots, and you're saying that Robinson who shot 34% on those shots after his hernia wouldn't be as effective today? Please, he would fit right into todays game and nobody would be able to stop him, if Jefferson can score 21ppg, what would Robinson do
Like a 7'1" guy who could hit the 15 footer, post up and run the floor like a gazelle wouldn't be good today. He'd be more effective today than Garnett, considering there isn't a center in the league right now that can match up to him physically. Robinson in the NBA today would be the 2nd tallest center (7'1" WITHOUT shoes), the most skilled, the most athletic and have one of the highest IQs, yet KG would be better? Who gonna stop him, Hibbert, Dwight?
Yes, long twos are the worst shot in basketball.. for some players. But not for players like KG and Nowitzki. There are several benefits of having bigs that can stretch the floor and shoot long twos.. I mean, long twos per say is not the problem, the problem is that people cant hit them at a high enough clip to warrant the shot.. well most people can't, garnett is an exception. Are you willing to learn? If so; here's a good quote to make you understand, taken from courtvisionanalytics.com
Kevin Garnett’s name appears in both the most frequent and most efficient lists. He is perhaps the best exception to the long-two-is-a-dumb-shot rule for a few reasons. First, he obviously makes these shots at a high rate. But his ability to shoot and make this shot is really helpful for two other less apparent reasons:
1) Since he is often defended by the opponent’s biggest defender, it creates space in the paint for his teammates, including
the great spatial negotiator named, Rajon Rondo. Garnett’s ability to make these long 2′s unclogs the paint and forces defenses to stay honest on pick and pop plays.
2) When Kevin Garnett shoots a long two, chances are it’s in front of the basket. When we examine his shooting clusters, we see his favorite jump shot locations are just inside the top of the arc, shaded a bit to his left. So what? Well, in the event of a missed shot by KG, a missed shot by one of his teammates, or some kind of turnover, when he is positioned at that long two location it means that he is much more likely to “get back on defense”. Garnett is one of the best defenders in the NBA, but he is aging, and by anchoring him in this location the Celtics and KG are in a great position for when offense quickly turns to defense. KG only has to run about 70 feet to defend the rim and/or prevent fast break opportunities. The reward is twofold: fewer miles on KG’s odometer, and a stronger transition defense.
Do whatever with the information.
