“It Should’ve Been Way Bigger:” Pop Smoke’s Label Boss Steven Victor Isn’t Satisfied with One Grammy Nomination
“Dior” is deserving, but to Victor, Pop’s successful album warranted more.
BY WILLIAM E. KETCHUM III
November 25, 2020
Steven Victor knows a thing or two about greatness in the music industry. The record executive’s accomplished career includes running Kanye West’s label G.O.O.D. Music, working as executive VP and head of A&R at Def Jam, and currently carrying a trio of titles: senior vice-president of A&R at Universal Music Group, founder of the label Victor Victor Worldwide, and manager of Pusha-T and The-Dream through his William Victor Management Group. That pedigree explains why, within hours of meeting Pop Smoke, Victor knew he was going to be a star.
His instincts were right: the smoky-voiced rapper’s boisterous anthems, “Dior” and “Welcome To The Party,” took over NYC in 2019. That catapulted the burgeoning Brooklyn drill scene—a blend of violent, nihilistic, Chicago-born rap with rumbling production from producers in the U.K.—to a nationwide audience. And just as Pop Smoke’s career took off, his life was tragically cut short in February 2020, when he was shot and killed during a home invasion in Hollywood Hills. Pop had built a relationship with 50 Cent before his death, and the rap veteran finished Pop’s LP, Shoot For The Stars, Aim For The Moon. It dropped this past July (with a Virgil Abloh-designed cover), went platinum, and became the first posthumous debut album to top the charts.
This week brought another posthumous honor for Pop Smoke: a 2021 Grammy nomination for “Dior” as Best Rap Song. It’s a well-deserved honor for a song that only grew in commercial and cultural relevance this year despite its 2019 release. However, in a call with GQ, Steven Victor makes a case for why one nomination isn’t enough, gives his perspective of the 2021 rap nominations overall and shares gems from his journey with a star who died way too soon.
GQ: This has to be both a celebratory moment and a somber one. Someone who you believed in has gotten yet another accomplishment. What did you see in Pop that made you want to sign him?
Steven Victor: When I met him, I immediately knew he was a superstar. I thought he was talented by the music he played, but more than that, I just saw something in his eyes. He was super determined. It wasn’t just the usual star quality. It wasn’t like he walked into a room and you’re like, “who’s this guy.” I met Pop as a favor to his manager, Rico, who was a close friend of mine. I didn’t even do the meeting at my office; I did it in Rico’s office, because my plan was to go in for five minutes and leave. I ended up staying and speaking to Pop for hours.
The Grammy nomination is for “Dior,” for Best Rap Performance. Do you remember when he first made “Dior,” and what made it special?
If I’m being honest, when he first made the song, I’m like, this is interesting. There was something about it that made me keep playing it. But I didn't think it was going to be a huge song. But a kid named AE that works with me, I really respect his opinion and his ear. When he heard it, he said to me, “This record is going to be big like ‘Panda.’ This is song is going to be massive, one of Pop’s biggest songs.” I started listening to it with a different ear and I realized how infectious the hook was. The next day, I went and played it for Republic and I told him, this is the song I want to focus on as the single for his mixtape.
So what went into making “Dior” a global smash?
We shot the video. Then we went on a promo tour. I really wanted to make him a global artist, so we had a focused plan on making him go SUS. We started in London, because that’s where the producer is from, and [“Dior”] has a U.K. drill sound to it, so it had a presence out there. We started doing grassroots things, bringing the man to the masses. We had him on a promo tour in all the different cities where the song was reacting. Another thing we did at the same time, I personally started working the record through New York radio stations. I picked a couple different regions—New York, DC, Philly, Chicago—where me and two of my friends started working the record ourselves. We just started calling DJs and sending the videos, like, “you’ve gotta start playing this record. He’s a special artist. You’ve got to meet him. You’ve got to support him. He’s going to be the biggest artist in the world. Not the biggest artist from New York, but the biggest artist in the world.”
I think that when people saw how seriously I was taking him, they took a deeper dive into who he was. Anybody that I knew that had an impact or influence in music, I started reaching out to them. That’s how the thing with Virgil came about. When I first signed Pop, maybe a week after we started making songs, there were seven songs, they were demos, and I sent them to Jay-Z. “I just signed this kid, let me know what you think about these songs.” This is super early. Jay texted me back: “This kid knows how to make records. He’s special. Focus on him.”
A lot of people are going to see these nominations. And if they don’t already know about Pop, they’re going to Google him, see that he passed, and may think that Pop just got this nomination because he passed away.
Not to cut you off, but I think the Grammys is cap, bro. No disrespect, but who is D Smoke? This is an artist—I’m not saying he started a genre, because he didn’t start drill music— but [Pop] bought drill music to the forefront and made it mainstream. He had a huge impact. Forget about whether he passed away, his impact was felt way before that. He was going to be a superstar. His mixtape sold 40,000 records in its first week with no hit record. It’s not like “Dior” was a hit when we put out the second mixtape. Most albums that come out and sell north of 25,000 their first week, there’s always a song driving those sales. To say that his impact is because he passed away, it’s cap. It’s not true. Modern day music, you can have an album that goes platinum, and it’s really just one or two songs, and the track equivalent allows you to say your album went platinum or gold because one song sold X amount of records. People were just genuinely interested in Pop Smoke. It wasn’t like he had a song or two songs that was buzzing. His next project was going to sell north of 100,000 either way. He had a sold out tour in Europe before he even toured in the U.S.
The top three albums this year are Lil Baby with 2.3 million records sold, that came out in January or February; the number two most sold album is Pop Smoke, and that came out in July, that’s 2 million records sold; and behind Pop is Weeknd, which came out in March. Weeknd, with 1.9 million records sold. So how does he not get nominated for Album of the Year or Rap Album of the Year or Best New Artist? This is his only chance to get nominated for these awards. So to me, the Grammys is cap. I don’t know who’s making these decisions. He should’ve been nominated for “Dior” in more than one category, he should’ve been nominated for Best New Artist, he should’ve been nominated for Album of the Year, and he should’ve been nominated for Rap Album of the Year. He should’ve swept the whole thing. It doesn’t make any sense. That kid was incredibly talented, he gave his life to his music, and you can’t at least nominate him? I mean, I’m sorry this whole thing went left, but...
I was going to ask what you think it means for Brooklyn drill to make it to the Grammys, but it sounds like you think it’s not there in the way it should be.
Yeah, it should be there in its proper way, but they don’t want it to be, for whatever reason. But at the end of the day, it’s still positive. The producer of the record, Melo, he’s super talented. “Dior” was one of Pop’s favorite songs, even when he made it, he was super excited about it. We’re grateful for it, but I would’ve loved for him to have gotten those nominations and hopefully one of those awards. Especially for his mother. Because it’s an acknowledgment. It’s history, right? Regardless of what I want to say about the Grammys, calling them cap and all this other stuff, the fact remains that it’s historical. [Pop] wanted to win a Grammy, because he knew what it meant for his career and his legacy. It’s just disappointing that he didn’t get nominated.
And hip-hop has had an interesting relationship with the Grammys, because--
Hip hop has never had no relationship with the Grammys! That’s what I think. They just pick and choose and do what they want to do based on how they’re feeling at the moment, without any regard to what’s really going on in the culture.
There was an interview that 50 Cent gave where he said that he didn’t think the Grammys would nominate Pop at all.
Yeah, I believe it. I’m looking at things online. Nicki Minaj didn’t get nominated when she dropped Pinkprint and had all those crazy stats and impact. Like I said, they don’t have a relationship with hip-hop or the culture. It hasn’t been a tumultuous relationship—there is no relationship.
This year, for Rap Album of the Year, the Grammys had a bunch of underground artists, or artists who feel like underground artists: Royce, Jay Electronica, D Smoke, Freddie Gibbs and Alchemist, Nas. Some think they did a better job of at least trying to cater to the culture.
They’re trolling. You can’t be so extreme, know what I’m saying? That’s what trolls do, they do extreme things to get a rise out of people. How do you not [award] Nas, with all the great albums that he’s had? What?
I’m thinking that this is a huge moment for y’all. But you’re like, it should’ve been an even bigger moment.
It should’ve been way bigger. For the year and the impact that he had—and he’s not here, he’s not going to be able to do this again. It’d be one thing if this album came out and everybody loved it, and it didn’t have all of the accolades that it has. “Look, people really liked it, but this album sold more, this album had more singles, this album did this, this album did that.” But the album is the biggest album of the year when you look at how many records it sold within the timespan that it sold those records, and all of that charted on Billboard. What’s going on?
This is why I say the Grammys is cap, and don’t have a relationship with our culture. Look at the year Baby had, look at the year Weeknd had. The Weeknd gets no nominations? Baby doesn’t get Album of the Year or Rap Album of the Year? Weeknd doesn’t get nominated for Song of the Year, Record of the Year? The only thing these artists have in common is their skin color. These are the three biggest, most impactful albums of the year in terms of numbers.
So what do you think should be the balance between respecting people who did numbers, like Pop and Baby, while also respecting underground artists?
The Grammys are trolling by making the rap categories lean so far left. They didn’t include any albums that had commercial success. I’m not saying that’s the criteria for the Grammys. Lil Baby and Pop Smoke, those were culturally impactful records. You look at the songs from Pop Smoke, they were super relevant with what was going on in our community earlier this year. Same for Lil Baby, he dropped a record specifically talking about issues. This is music that’s the soundtrack of our lives. That’s what people are listening to, broadly. Some people are listening to Freddie Gibbs like you said, some are listening to Jay Electronica. But those are subsects. Across the board, this is what people are listening to to get them through their days.
This is not 2002, where record labels can force music down consumers’ throats. People go on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, and they pick what they want to listen to. The public made this decision that these albums are what they’re listening to, so what are we talking about with these nominations? Now more than ever. How do you not incorporate that into the “biggest awards in music”? How do you not factor that in? You have to this year, more than any year. You have to listen to what the people want.
What kind of reactions have his family and the rest of the team had for the nomination, or lack thereof? Were they as upset as you, or were they happy with the one he did get?
His family is definitely happy that he got a nomination. I think a lot of the people that worked really closely on the project, I would say all of us feel the same way. It’s still a big deal that he got an actual nomination. A lot of people in the community feel the same way as I, in terms of Baby, Weeknd, Pop, Roddy Ricch. He’s not going to have another chance to be up for those awards. And I’m not saying that the Grammys should’ve taken that into consideration. I’m saying for me, personally, that’s a reason that I’m so disappointed. But like I said, sorry for that rant.
Speaking of cultural resonance, “Dior” was played at a lot of protests this year after George Floyd was killed by police. That’s not a song that people would immediately associate with protests. It’s not a song like “Alright” by Kendrick.
It’s not, but there’s so many different nuances at the core of “Dior.” There’s drill, there’s African music in there, there’s Caribbean nuances in there. The melodies that Pop is using within the beat, it touches all these different types of music that’s implemented in our culture. When you think about it like that, it makes sense that it was used in the riots. It evokes that emotion.
