P$4 or Larrybox?

  • PS4 Gang gang gang

  • Xbox all day

  • PC Gang

  • Nintendo Fan


Results are only viewable after voting.
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
267
Reputation
300
Daps
533
I want to see your face when there's sub 4K games running at 30fps on the Scorpio. :coffee:



Can't wait for the comparison videos. Gonna be lots of "I can't see the difference" and "smh it's still 30fps?" You guys have hyped yourselves up to inevitable disappointment.
naw.....every game will be runnning 4k 60fps
 

Fatboi1

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
60,379
Reputation
7,928
Daps
110,553
naw.....every game will be runnning 4k 60fps
You probably really believe this too. :mjlol: A 60fps racer running at 4K doesn't mean every other game will be 4K/60fps.



Post bookmarked. :coffee:


edit: From DF themselves:

1. Smoother performance and no screen-tearing
"We bring to bear all 40 compute units and the full 1172MHz clock-speed [of the Scorpio GPU], we're bringing those to bear on all the games possible," says Andrew Goossen. "Now, I have a caveat a bit later about all the compatibility testing we do for these and some of the implications, but we can bring all the 40CUs, all 1172MHz, of course the full 2.3GHz on the CPU."

What this means in practice is that games that cannot fully sustain their target frame-rate on Xbox One stand a really good chance of doing so on Scorpio. But to be clear: what we won't see will be 30fps games suddenly running at 60fps. The game itself still sets its frame-rate target, and there are no functions for removing performance limits.

2. Maximum possible resolution on dynamic titles
A popular technique in games development is to adapt dynamic resolution scaling. The idea here is straightforward: when a game is in danger of losing its lock on its performance target, be it 30fps or 60fps, the title scales down the image, running it at a lower resolution in order to maintain a smoother frame-rate. There are many games out there that support dynamic scaling - Doom 2016, Halo 5, Gears of War 4, Battlefield 1, Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare and The Division, for example.

"With the additional performance of the Scorpio Engine, we expect to see those titles hit the maximum render resolution that those titles support," says Goossen. "As you know, we can't boost it to 4K, but definitely the maximum resolution the game supports, we should be able to run it."
Five ways your Xbox One and 360 games will be better on Scorpio
 
Last edited:

Fatboi1

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
60,379
Reputation
7,928
Daps
110,553
On CPU cores

AMD technically has several cores potentially available for Scorpio: Excavator (Bulldozer-based, as seen on 28nm), Jaguar-based (also from 28nm) or Zen based (seen on 14nm GF). While the latter is a design that has returned AMD to the high-end of x86 performance computing, offering high performance for reasonable power, a Zen design would be relatively quick turnaround from a consumer launch a month ago. Because of the time frame, even if Microsoft could go for Zen in the Scorpio, this would increase the base cost of the console by redesigning the cores on 16nm TSMC.

In the Digital Foundary piece, Microsoft stated that the CPU portion of Scorpio has a 31% performance gain over the Xbox. This isn't IPC, this is just raw performance. Moving from Jaguar to Zen would be more than 60%, and actually the frequency difference between the 2.3 GHz in Scorpio and 1.75 GHz in Xbox One is exactly 31%. So we are dealing with a Jaguar-style core (although perhaps modified).

That being said, this is a ‘custom’ x86 core. Microsoft could have requested specific IP blocks and features not present in the original Jaguar CPUs but present in things such as Zen, such as power management techniques. Typically a console shares DRAM between the CPU and GPU, so it might be something as simple as the CPU memory controller supporting GDDR5. So instead of seeing Zen coming to consoles, we’re seeing another crack at using Jaguar (or Jaguar+) but revised for a smaller process node to keep overall costs down – and given that the main focus on a console is the GPU, that’s entirely possible.

GPU
Now there is a bit of nuance here, as AMD’s GPU architecture is offered piecemeal: the shader cores, the memory controllers, the display controllers, etc are all separate blocks that can be mixed and matches. This is how the PS4 Pro uses just parts of Vega. So it’s entirely possible that there are other bits and pieces in Scorpio that are newer than Polaris, however the all-important shader cores and ROP backends clearly point to Polaris.

Diving into the specs a bit deeper, we do have the clockspeeds and configurations for both the GPU and the memory. Scorpio’s GPU is a 40 CU (2,560 SP) wide design – a bit wider than the Radeon RX 480 – which is a rather extensive upgrade over the original Xbox One. Ignoring clockspeeds for the moment (more in a sec), just the CU count itself is 3.33 times the 12 CUs in the original XB1. Similarly, Microsoft has doubled the number of ROP backends from 16 to 32. The ROP change is badly needed in order for Microsoft to reach their 4K goal, and it has been a pretty universal suspicion that the original XB1’s 16 ROPs were a big part of the reason that major multiplatform games tend to go with 900p instead of a native 1080p.

Meanwhile on the clockspeed front, the new GPU is clocked at 1172MHz, giving Microsoft 6 TFLOPS right on the dot. This is a 37% clockspeed increase over the original XB1, and a 28% increase over the XB1S, which received a slight clockspeed bump of its own. These clockspeeds are well within the range of what the Polaris architecture can offer, and while not as conservative as Sony’s design choices, should still be reasonably power efficient, though I’m very much interested in seeing what total power consumption is like.

More importantly, combined with the much wider GPU, the impact to the various throughput metrics is staggering. Shader/texture throughput will be 4.58x the original XB1, and ROP throughput will be 2.75x. Microsoft had a very large gap to close from the original Xbox One if they wanted to do 4K, and they have certainly put together a design that is equally large to help close that gap. However with that said, with performance that, on paper, is slightly ahead of a Radeon RX 480, I expect we’re still going to see some compromises here to consistently hit Microsoft’s 4K goal. 6 TFLOPS often isn’t enough for native 4K at current image quality levels, which means developers will have to resort to some clever optimizations or image scaling.

Memory subsystem
What makes things especially interesting though is that Microsoft didn’t just switch out DDR3 for GDDR5, but they’re using a wider memory bus as well; expanding it by 50% to 384-bits wide. Not only does this even further expand the console’s memory bandwidth – now to a total of 326GB/sec, or 4.8x the XB1’s DDR3 – but it means we have an odd mismatch between the ROP backends and the memory bus. Briefly, the ROP backends and memory bus are typically balanced 1-to-1 in a GPU, so a single memory controller will feed 1 or two ROP partitions. However in this case, we have a 384-bit bus feeding 32 ROPs, which is not a compatible mapping.

What this means is that at some level, Microsoft is running an additional memory crossbar in the SoC, which would be very similar to what AMD did back in 2012 with the Radeon HD 7970. Because the console SoC needs to split its memory bandwidth between the CPU and the GPU, things aren’t as cut and dry here as they are with discrete GPUs. But, at a high level, what we saw from the 7970 is that the extra bandwidth + crossbar setup did not offer much of a benefit over a straight-connected, lower bandwidth configuration. Accordingly, AMD has never done it again in their dGPUs. So I think it will be very interesting to see if developers can consistently consume more than 218GB/sec or so of bandwidth using the GPU.
Microsoft’s Project Scorpio: More Hardware Details Revealed
 
Last edited:

Leasy

Let's add some Alizarin Crimson & Van Dyke Brown
Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
44,785
Reputation
4,407
Daps
97,500
Reppin
Philly (BYRD GANG)
Okay so to make sure I'm clear you think every game on the Scorpio will be native 4K 60fps? no dynamic, no special rendering just straight native 4k 60fps? :wow:
You dudes are delusional

Just because your PS4 Pro can't do it don't expect the Xbox to be the same :pachaha: you heard Digital Foundry
 

Mike809

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
16,042
Reputation
3,631
Daps
81,784
Reppin
Bronx
How much do you guys think it's going to cost ? Don't think it will go below 400.
 

Trapperman Dave

Basil Fawty 
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
19,033
Reputation
2,685
Daps
29,527
Reppin
Gamers World Wide

Fatboi1

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
60,379
Reputation
7,928
Daps
110,553
Xb360 and OG XB probably can get games at 4k 60 but the jury still out on upcoming games 1st and 3rd party will remain to be seen
it isn't. I'm 1000% sure of that. I'll bet $5 with anybody that the Scorpio will not play every game at 4K/60fps(native 4k not no dynamic rendering or any other magic.)
 

Mowgli

Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
102,861
Reputation
13,333
Daps
242,715
Scorpio could have been an optipnnif it was xtimes more poweful then pro. But it's what.


40 percent more powerful? :mjlol:

The new age of disappointment for you larryboys will be legendary.

Hopefully you didn't buy a pro already.
 
Top