Phil's Drunk Messin' With The Association Save Again: Knicks 2015-2016 Tryout / Off Season Thread

Crown Bearer

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Tim pulled down 0 boards.

Swish's rebounding numbers will rise as the season goes along. Tell me what dumb shots Swish takes. His step-back jumper that he shoots 66% on?

No, 'Melo's poor shooting didn't put NY into a whole against the Pistons. That was ft's, the rhythm it got them into, and poor rebounding put them into a whole. 'Melo set up teammates to make the shots they made and he boarded.

Jason, Sam, Tim, Pablo, Wear, and Early all had putrid rebounding numbers. Ft's, scandalous reffing, Swish being dumb, fatigue, and Larkin cost NY the game. It didn't help that Pablo went down.

The rebounding is inexcusable because you're still capable of out-rebounding a team if you wanna win. NY has done it against the Bulls and Pacers when they led the league in that stat.

Not giving 'Melo a pass for shooting poorly. He's partly to blame. He's just not mainly or the only one to blame. How well did Swish shoot tonight? How about rebounds? Assists? To blame 1 person is to say they can beat a team on their own. Being a superstar means you play better than everyone on your team on most nights. That should afford you the room to have a few bad games.
So he had no boards. Still doesnt change the fact that JR is not a beast on the boards. No one is looking to JR for his rebounding. He's a scorer, and Tim gave us scoring tonight. How do you even know JR would've had any if he played? I dont want to hear about what his numbers will do during the season becuase you cant say that with certainty.

How did his bad shooting not help put us in a hole? You cant be serious. You claim his second half shooting is what got us back into the game, but he was 5-15 which was still terrible. If you want to claim it was the discrepancy in ft's, that's more on us for relying on jumpers all night. I'll give him credit for setting guys up, but you need to stop acting like his rebounding numbers were something special while calling the others' numbers "putrid." He had 6 boards. I don't even know why you're throwing Wear and Early in there. They played like 5 mins.

Just because they had games where they rebounded better than good teams doesn't mean it should be expected, and it damn sure doesn't make it inexcusable. Those teams are leaders for a reason. You dont think think those teams are capable of putting in as much effort and "wanting it" as much as we do?

There's no way you can look at the game tonight and not say Melo isn't the main reason we lost. If you want to say it was defense, he was just as poor as everyone else on d. You cant say he killed on the boards. Shump, Larkin (who you're throwing blame at), STAT, and Acy all had similar or better numbers. It's one thing to have an off night and have another teammate, or even two, pick up the slack, but to be the superstar on the team and have 4 guys score more than you, you need to catch heat. Especially the way he just relied on jumpers instead of realizing his shot wasn't falling and trying to get to the basket. Look at the shyt Lebron caught when we beat the Cavs, and he put up better numbers than Melo did tonight
 

DetroitEWarren

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Detroit You bytch Ass nikka
I aint see the game today but based off the NY games I have watched, I see why nikkas can be frustrated at Melo. I mean, as a Melo fan, I can deal with bad shooting nights as long as he aint hogging the ball. But damn nikka, LEARN HOW TO RUN A fukkIN P&R. I mean, for the love of god its not that damn hard to hit the roller in stride, while watching games the few times you do get a Melo&STAT P&R, Melo has not caught STAT off the roll not 1 time. Everytime STAT has had room to catch the ball and go straight up, but Melo never even tries to give him the rock.

Im saying this cause I watched the replays and Melo had got a pick from STAT, STAT had a WIDE fukkIN OPEN lane to the basket but Melo completely missed it. STAT still scored and Melo still got the assist, but the pass was so late that it made the score a lot harder than it needed to be. Come on Melo bro, I know you are better than this my nikka :smh:

And before nikkas get the running they mouth, this is not based off that one play, this has happened 1-3 times every game this season :yeshrug:. I would not shyt on my nikka Melo if it was not the truth
 

Victim of Racism

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So he had no boards. Still doesnt change the fact that JR is not a beast on the boards. No one is looking to JR for his rebounding. He's a scorer, and Tim gave us scoring tonight. How do you even know JR would've had any if he played? I dont want to hear about what his numbers will do during the season becuase you cant say that with certainty.

How did his bad shooting not help put us in a hole? You cant be serious. You claim his second half shooting is what got us back into the game, but he was 5-15 which was still terrible. If you want to claim it was the discrepancy in ft's, that's more on us for relying on jumpers all night. I'll give him credit for setting guys up, but you need to stop acting like his rebounding numbers were something special while calling the others' numbers "putrid." He had 6 boards. I don't even know why you're throwing Wear and Early in there. They played like 5 mins.

Just because they had games where they rebounded better than good teams doesn't mean it should be expected, and it damn sure doesn't make it inexcusable. Those teams are leaders for a reason. You dont think think those teams are capable of putting in as much effort and "wanting it" as much as we do?

There's no way you can look at the game tonight and not say Melo isn't the main reason we lost. If you want to say it was defense, he was just as poor as everyone else on d. You cant say he killed on the boards. Shump, Larkin (who you're throwing blame at), STAT, and Acy all had similar or better numbers. It's one thing to have an off night and have another teammate, or even two, pick up the slack, but to be the superstar on the team and have 4 guys score more than you, you need to catch heat. Especially the way he just relied on jumpers instead of realizing his shot wasn't falling and trying to get to the basket. Look at the shyt Lebron caught when we beat the Cavs, and he put up better numbers than Melo did tonight

Swish doesn't have to be a beast on the boards. He just has to be solid, which is something Tim is not and did not fill in Swish's absence as you claimed. To the bolded, false. People look to Swish for his scoring, rebounding, defense, and passing. That's why Tim doesn't play. Barring injury, there's no reason to believe Swish will regress in his rebounding. He has progressed in his play-making. Tim hasn't progressed in any area. That's why he isn't playing.

You don't get in a whole against Detroit with 1 player shooting poorly. If that were true, it would have happened against the Wiz. The main reason NY lost the game is that Swish behaved like an idiot. I'm very serious that it was Swish and not 'Melo. If you combine what 'Melo gave with anything Swish gives, do they still lose? Of course not. I missed most of the 1st half, but word on the street is that no one could make a shot in the first half, except for Jason. The team was gassed and 'Melo played the whole 4th quarter last night. They needed as many players as possible because they're running out like they did last season when only 4 players missed less than 16 games. Swish really messed up.

He got NY back into the game with timely buckets in the second half. Like Larkin's untimely to's lost the game, as did Tim's untimely terrible shots. His rebounding was special. If every player that played a good amount of minutes had 6 boards, the disparity wouldn't have been so great. 'Melo did his job on the boards and most players did not. That pretty much all the bigs are asked to do and most of them didn't do that. As far as Wear and Early, you can grab more than 1 rebound in 5 minutes, especially when you need them badly. Competing should always be expected. If 'Melo can do his job on the boards, so can the rest of them.

Nah, it wasn't the d. I said it was ft's, scandalous reffing, Swish being dumb, fatigue, and Larkin. It didn't help that Pablo went down. How was 'Melo bad at d? Pistons shot 36%. Larkin had 3 to's and a horrible one late.

You're not making sense by calling him a superstar and then arguing that he needs heat for being outscored by 4 of his teammates, most of which he set up. That's like saying play well because you usually do but since you didn't tonight, you should catch heat. That's absurd that a superstar can't have 2 bad games, or even 30 out of 82. If one person has a bad night shooting, everybody on both teams might outscore him, so your logic isn't logical.

'Melo was attacking the basket and usually doesn't get the calls. That's old news.

Lj didn't put up better numbers in that game than 'Melo did tonight. Lj had less assists (and he dominates the ball; 'Melo doesn't), less rebounds, and more turnovers in that game than 'Melo did tonight. 'Melo even managed to have a better game last night than Lj had when NY beat the Cavs. What are you talking about?
 
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Crown Bearer

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Swish doesn't have to be a beast on the boards. He just has to be solid, which is something Tim is not and did not fill in Swish's absence as you claimed. To the bolded, false. People look to Swish for his scoring, rebounding, defense, and passing. That's why Tim doesn't play. Barring injury, there's no reason to believe Swish will regress in his rebounding. He has progressed in his play-making. Tim hasn't progressed in any area. That's why he isn't playing.

You don't get in a whole against Detroit with 1 player shooting poorly. If that were true, it would have happened against the Wiz. He got NY back into the game with timely buckets in the second half. Like Larkin's untimely to's lost the game, as did Tim's untimely terrible shots. His rebounding was special. If every player that played a good amount of minutes had 6 boards, the disparity wouldn't have been so great. 'Melo did his job on the boards and most players did not. That pretty much all the bigs are asked to do and most of them didn't do that. As far as Wear and Early, you can grab more than 1 rebound in 5 minutes, especially when you need them badly. Competing should always be expected. If 'Melo can do his job on the boards, so can the rest of them.

Nah, it wasn't the d. I said it was ft's, scandalous reffing, Swish being dumb, fatigue, and Larkin. It didn't help that Pablo went down. How was 'Melo bad at d? Pistons shot 36%. Larkin had 3 to's and a horrible 1 late.

You're not making sense by calling him a superstar and then arguing that he needs heat for being outscored by 4 of his teammates, most of which he set up. That's like saying play well because you usually do but since you didn't tonight, you should catch heat. That's absurd that a superstar can't have 2 bad games, or even 30 out of 82. If one person has a bad night shooting, everybody on both teams might outscore him, so your logic isn't logical.

'Melo was attacking the basket and usually doesn't get the calls. That's old news.

Lj didn't put up better numbers in that game than 'Melo did tonight. Lj had less assists (and he dominates the ball; 'Melo doesn't), less rebounds, and more turnovers in that game than 'Melo did tonight. 'Melo even managed to have a better game last night than Lj had when NY beat the Cavs. What are you talking about?
So when JR grabs 2 or 3 boards, it's solid, but when others grab the same amount it's putrid? I dont even know why you think JR's rebounding numbers are going to magically get better as the season goes on when he avgs around 3 boards for his career. I don't know where you got this notion that people look to JR for all those things. JR is a scorer. Plain and simple. If he happens to give you some boards and some soild passing, you'll take it and run. The reason Tim doesnt get playing time is because his defense is terrible and up until tonight he was struggling on offense. Not because he's not a good rebounder or passer.

No, he didnt' get us back in the game with timely buckets in the second half. He was 3 -10 in the third. He hit a couple shots in the fourth like the scoop layup near the end, but that doesnt erase that fact that he was terrible up until that point. His rebounding wasnt special. It was 6 boards. 6. STAT had more boards in almost half the time. Shump had the same amount in less minutes. Larkin, who it seems you're determined to throw under the bus, had 5 in less minutes. Acy had 6 in 14 minutes. Cole had 5 in 11 minutes. You're throwing guys like Early in there for some reason, but if they played the same amount of mins as Melo, he would've been on pace to have more boards than Melo. How is 6 boards in 39 mins special? Could Dalembert and Smith have had more boards? Sure, but you're acting like they could've just got them when they wanted and didnt. Monroe/Drummond/Smith are all great rebounders.

You really gonna act like Josh Smith being a clown jacking up bricks and Drummond being a terrible offensive player isn't the reason why they shot 36%? :comeon:. Melo was getting blown by by guys like Bulter. Was he the only one terrible on d? No. Like I said, everyone was bad. We're a bad defensive team so I dont know why you're bringing it up.

Yes he deserves heat. He set some guys up, but he was outscored by 4 teammates and he took more shots than any of them, and outside of Shump, all of them shot over 50%. I dont know how you can look at 5-21 and not :scust: just because he had some assists. And no he wasn't driving to the basket and not getting calls. If that were the case, no one would have any issue with how he played tonight. Go look at his shot chart and show me where all the drives are.

Only reason Bron had that terrible ast/to total against us is because he was trying to show out with his passes. Even then, he had more points shooting a better percentage than Melo did tonight, and he did something Melo didnt tonight. Drive to the rim.

You can keep going on if you want , but tonight was on Melo imo. You obviously feel differently, but I'm on to the next one.
 

Harleminthe80s

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I'm confused why you dudes are in mid season form after 5 games when we all knew coming into this that we'd probably be inconsistent to begin the season
Cause last season is still fresh in everyone's mind. We started out meh then a nose dive. Then Jan came it was looking bright next thing you know Feb and March came.:mjcry:

They can never be trusted

I'm not pessimistic but I understand :manny:
 
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I love these long-winded posts that cherry pick stats and situations trying to argue that players like JR and Bernyarny arent terrible at basketball. If you listen to these people, every player on the Knicks is at least above average and it's a complete mystery why we've been losing games for over a season :heh:
 
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Victim of Racism

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So when JR grabs 2 or 3 boards, it's solid, but when others grab the same amount it's putrid? I dont even know why you think JR's rebounding numbers are going to magically get better as the season goes on when he avgs around 3 boards for his career. I don't know where you got this notion that people look to JR for all those things. JR is a scorer. Plain and simple. If he happens to give you some boards and some soild passing, you'll take it and run. The reason Tim doesnt get playing time is because his defense is terrible and up until tonight he was struggling on offense. Not because he's not a good rebounder or passer.

No, he didnt' get us back in the game with timely buckets in the second half. He was 3 -10 in the third. He hit a couple shots in the fourth like the scoop layup near the end, but that doesnt erase that fact that he was terrible up until that point. His rebounding wasnt special. It was 6 boards. 6. STAT had more boards in almost half the time. Shump had the same amount in less minutes. Larkin, who it seems you're determined to throw under the bus, had 5 in less minutes. Acy had 6 in 14 minutes. Cole had 5 in 11 minutes. You're throwing guys like Early in there for some reason, but if they played the same amount of mins as Melo, he would've been on pace to have more boards than Melo. How is 6 boards in 39 mins special? Could Dalembert and Smith have had more boards? Sure, but you're acting like they could've just got them when they wanted and didnt. Monroe/Drummond/Smith are all great rebounders.

You really gonna act like Josh Smith being a clown jacking up bricks and Drummond being a terrible offensive player isn't the reason why they shot 36%? :comeon:. Melo was getting blown by by guys like Bulter. Was he the only one terrible on d? No. Like I said, everyone was bad. We're a bad defensive team so I dont know why you're bringing it up.

Yes he deserves heat. He set some guys up, but he was outscored by 4 teammates and he took more shots than any of them, and outside of Shump, all of them shot over 50%. I dont know how you can look at 5-21 and not :scust: just because he had some assists. And no he wasn't driving to the basket and not getting calls. If that were the case, no one would have any issue with how he played tonight. Go look at his shot chart and show me where all the drives are.

Only reason Bron had that terrible ast/to total against us is because he was trying to show out with his passes. Even then, he had more points shooting a better percentage than Melo did tonight, and he did something Melo didnt tonight. Drive to the rim.

You can keep going on if you want , but tonight was on Melo imo. You obviously feel differently, but I'm on to the next one.

3 boards is solid for a guard. 0 to 1 board (Tim, Pablo) is not. 0 to 3 boards is not solid for a forward (Jason, Wear, and Early), nor a center who can't make up for it with his scoring (Sam), especially when that is needed against a certain team.

Swish has not been scoring much, but he still plays because he does more than that. He plays d, passes, and rebounds well. Stat doesn't even get many minutes because his d and passing is bad, even though he's a decent rebounder. You don't even want to know the passing disparity between Tim and Swish. You need willing passers in the Triangle, which Tim is not. So, like I said, Tim did not fill Swish's shoes; not even close

Stat should have had more boards than 'Melo because he's taller. 6 boards in 39 minutes is special because he went up against a big team. Those guys who had more boards were more special. That doesn't mean 'Melo's weren't. That said, 'Melo didn't have to be special on the boards. All he had to be was solid and he was and many other teammates were not. It's funny you talk about Larkin having a lot of boards who is the shortest guy on the team but then you cop pleas for Sam. It's also funny that you would accuse me of throwing Larkin under the bus for saying he was one reason NY lost (not even the main reason) for his late turnovers and his minimal to lack of contribution in any other category than boarding, but what you're doing to 'Melo isn't throwing him under the bus when Larkin did more damage than 'Melo and never made up for it.

Apparently Butler wasn't blowing by 'Melo too much because Butler was 2-7. Jennings 2-9. Singler 0-1 in 13 minutes. So, no, it wasn't just Josh and Dre. If you don't play d, they will be efficient. They shot 44.7% as a team last season when they were at their worst. That is 0.3% less than being efficient. They are an improved team this season. They will be at least a little bit better later. Good d makes struggling teams struggle even more. NY did that last night.

He did go to the rack. He was cold-cocked on a reverse layup; every star gets that call. There was a play where 'Melo had perfect position, had Josh pinned down, and got no call. Headband gets knocked off, no call. James Harden is a jump-shooter with less than 18.8% of his attempts coming at the rim last year. He attempted 9 fts. 'Melo had 21.3% of his attempts coming at the rim last year. Durant is a jump-shooter with less than 24.5% of his attempts coming at the rim last year. He attempted 9.9 fts. 'Melo isn't just a jump-shooter. He is the best post player in the NBA. No, he didn't have "some" assists. He had eight assists and he doesn't even dominate the ball. That was more assist than anyone on either team had, so you can go to the store with that trying to minimize everything he did and maximize everything everyone else did, just because they ball didn't go in for him last night. He contributed more than Jason and Jason had 17 efficient points (all of which came in the 1st half). 'Melo helped those 4 teammates outscore him. 'Melo should have shot more than them because superstars are known to make a positive impact on the game if they keep shooting. Non-superstars are not. There's a reason superstars are the only ones with the green light to take 20 shots per game. You must think Iverson is trash huh? 'Melo got to the line 3 times less than his average, despite the fact that the refs were against NY like they always are and were determined to keep NY off the line and keep the Pistons on the line, proven by the fact that NY only got there 10 times.

Why are you copping pleas for Lj? Who cares about him? This discussion is about NY. I see, you're one of those. The one's who love to throw 'Melo under the bus because of your love affair with your Bron. Lj may have had more points and a better percentage but that's one stat because the point total is meaningless if it's inefficient. Only key buckets matter in that situation, which Lj had late (only 1), just like 'Melo did last night (and 'Melo had several). You claimed Lj put up better numbers and he didn't. He had less assists (and he dominates the ball; 'Melo doesn't), less boards, and never plays d. 'Melo did a good job on him as usual, just like Shump and Wear did. Apparently he wasn't driving to the basket too much because that's his game and he was putrid on offense even for a jump-shooter, which he is not. He gets the calls to do so and he only got 'Melo's average in trips to the line (7). And that's all he can do. He can't shoot. That's why he gets punked by guys half his size like Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, and J.J. Barea in the Finals. :scust:That's why he got punked by Kawhi for 2 straight Finals series. Kawhi can't guard 'Melo. Bully Butler can't even guard 'Melo. And again, he even got punked by Shump. :scust:

And no, it wasn't on 'Melo. This is not a matter of "opinion". You made a truth-claim. It was on Swish. The main reason NY lost the game is that Swish behaved like an idiot. If you combine what 'Melo gave with anything Swish gives, do they still lose? Of course not. Do they get out-rebounded as badly? I highly doubt it. I missed most of the 1st half, but word on the street is that no one could make a shot in the first half, except for Jason. The team was gassed and 'Melo played the whole 4th quarter the night before. They needed as many players as possible because they're running out like they did last season when only 4 players missed less than 16 games. Swish really messed up.

One thing on Lj I will say is that the loss wasn't only his fault. Love played like trash too. Kyrie played very well. However, it was mainly his fault because he had 8 to's, was inefficient while primarily being guarded individually by players smaller than he is, didn't drive to the hoop enough when that's his game and he has the favoritism to do so, played no d (as usual), didn't board well enough, held the ball too much (4 assist is nothing for a guy that dominates the ball as much as he does while having played huge minutes in that game), and most of his teammates were efficient. At least in the wizards loss Sam, Larkin, Cole, Swish, and Tim were all inefficient. More of all of their shots should have gone to Jason Smith.
 
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tremonthustler1

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Mr. Jack Napier

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Being pissed and saying things like "I'm done with the team for the week" are two sides of a line we shouldn't be at yet
And it's the same people time & time again. We're 5 games into the season with a new system & coach and we are 2-3 and people act like it's the end of the world. NY has the most reactionary fans.
:ufdup: Stop wishing bad juju on us.
 

OsO

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season is going up and down as expected.

melo definitely struggled these last two games but the knicks haven't been finding him enough in the triangle, especially in the first quarter. just like kobe and jordan you have be intentional in getting the ball to your best player in the triangle. if i see another jason smith or quincy acy isolation on the elbow :snoop:

and d fish really needs to get the rotation figured out. these struggle lineups are :scust:

plus with more consistency in the rotation we'll get more consistency from the players. for some stretches the knicks look like a playoff team, for other stretches they look like a d-league team. the core players need to start building that chemistry.
 
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