Paul Pierce attempts to explain why Lebron isn’t a top 5 player

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God rest his soul but Kobe was a robin for 3. Rings just aren't weighted the same as when you win as the man.

He averaged 29/7/6 in the 2001 playoffs for the 2nd ring AND 27/6/5 in the 2002 playoffs for the 3rd ring.

Those are not the numbers of a Robin. Those are the numbers of a #1 option.

For comparison's sake, from 2008-2010, he averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs en route to 3 finals trips and 2 rings. That's roughly the same numbers he averaged in 2001 and 2002.
 

NYC Rebel

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If you're going to change my initial response from best point guard to best "pure" point guard then that is dishonest because you're automatically excluding a lot of players. That excludes Steph. That excludes Iverson and Oscar Robertson. And in terms of "pure" point guards, you'll be hard pressed to make a case for Stockton over Magic and Isiah Thomas.

As for your point about longevity matters , does it only matter when it comes to Lebron? Because Tim Duncan also played for 19 seasons but no Duncan fan uses that as an argument for why he should be top 5. Kobe Bryant played for 20 seasons and was 3rd all time scoring, Kobe fans don't use that as a reason why he should be top 5.

Now you want to say Miami was not a superteam when Lebron James clearly thought he had created a superteam :

He thought he was going to win more rings than Jordan and Kobe.

As for Duncan winning "only 3 Finals MVP's" , you do realize that's the tied for 2nd most in NBA history?

I don't care about the MVP award. The criteria changes from time to time and no one knows what's its about. Is it an award for best player or best player in the best team? Kareem won it in 1976 when his team didn't even make the playoffs. Nash has the same amount of MVP's as Shaq and Kobe combined.

And that deflates the gas from that graph you brought up.

Get upset at season ticket holder events brehs. :mjlol:
 

Big Boss

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My beef ain't with someone who says Lebron is second best overall. My beef is when someone acts like it's blasphemy to not have him as the second best player of all time. Lebron has done nothing to separate himself from Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, or Russell. He hasn't dominated his era with titles, with stats, so how is it a lock that he's the second best ever.


facts
 

DaRock

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The Truth

Like I said in the doc thread, he aint lyin and he aint biased either cause he used to beat bron's ass yearly :sas2:

So this is coming from a genuine place just like when laimbeer speaks:mjgrin:


"Beat his azz yearly"....

2-2 in the playoffs

Pierce 08 and 10
Lebron 11 and 12

I won't go into the years Pierce went to Brooklyn and Lebron beat his azz again and sent him out West..

Pierce up 3-2 at the crib and we know what happened :sas2:
 

IllmaticDelta

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If you're going to change my initial response from best point guard to best "pure" point guard then that is dishonest because you're automatically excluding a lot of players. That excludes Steph. That excludes Iverson and Oscar Robertson. And in terms of "pure" point guards, you'll be hard pressed to make a case for Stockton over Magic and Isiah Thomas.

Magic is a better pure PG. Isiah was a scoring PG

As for your point about longevity matters , does it only matter when it comes to Lebron? Because Tim Duncan also played for 19 seasons but no Duncan fan uses that as an argument for why he should be top 5. Kobe Bryant played for 20 seasons and was 3rd all time scoring, Kobe fans don't use that as a reason why he should be top 5.

what? That was kobe-stan talking point

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/doe...st-longevity-of-any-athelete-in-sports.66496/

they used to say lebron wouldn't last once he lost his athleticism lol




Now you want to say Miami was not a superteam when Lebron James clearly thought he had created a superteam :

He thought he was going to win more rings than Jordan and Kobe.



after the first year, they were not a superteam because Wade was always injured


Winning back-to-back championships usually elicits one of those "not broke, don't fix it" sentiments. When you're as good as the Miami Heat, though, winning championships doesn't mean all's as it should be.

A bone bruise in his right knee, tendinitis and a handful of other nagging bumps and bruises followed Dwyane Wade into the 2013 playoffs, threatening to derail Miami's attempt to win its second-straight title. If he has anything to say about it this summer, next time will be different. According to the South Florida Sun Sentinel's Ira Winderman, Wade is now turning to the same OssaTron therapy he used to ease his aching knees five years ago.


Wade will also spend the time between now and training camp trying to get in the kind of shape he was in when he came into the league, ostensibly hoping to reduce some of the wear and tear on his joints. To that end, he's again working with Tim Grover, trainer extraordinaire who's also helped the likes of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Grover had worked with Wade earlier in his career and came to his rescue after Game 2 of the 2012 Finals in the star's last-ditch attempt to remain on the floor and somewhat effective. In his book The Cleaner You Are, The Dirtier You Get, Grover expressed admiration for Wade's willingness to seek help (via The Palm Beach Post's Ethan J. Skolnick):

A different player might not have made that call. He could have relied on LeBron to carry the Heat to the title, he could have tried coping with the pain, hoping his knee would give him a couple more games. That’s what most players would have done. But when a championship is on the line and you’re a Cleaner, you don’t let others carry the load, and you don’t just hope it all works out. You make every possible move to put yourself where you need to be.

Another title isn't on the line just yet, but Wade's already putting himself where he needs to be in anticipation of a season that could vault Miami into the NBA's rare ranks of three-peaters. His injury history is one he's not eager to repeat.

Fresh off the 2011 NBA lockout, Wade's health appeared an ominous warning in advance of Miami's attempt to improve upon its 2011 defeat to the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA Finals. By the end of January, he'd missed nine of the Heat's 21 games.

In addition to a strained calf and a bruised left foot that kept him out of three games, Wade suffered a sprained right ankle that put the cherry on top of his early struggles (via ESPN's Michael Wallace):

Wade told reporters in Denver that he had never experienced pain from a sprain as severely as what he felt Friday. He also made light of his recent rash of injuries being a sign that he's getting older. Wade turns 30 on Tuesday.

However many times Wade's been around the sun, discerning his age in NBA years is a little like trying to figure out how old Miguel Tejada was back in the day. It's ultimately a guessing game where birth certificates mean absolutely nothing.

Fast-forward to the postseason, and a familiar problem began haunting Wade's attempts to earn teammate LeBron James his first title.

Two games into Miami's second-round series against the Indiana Pacers in 2012, Wade had to have his left knee drained to relieve soreness that began plaguing him in the postseason. He went on to struggle initially, making just 2-of-13 field-goal attempts in Game 3 and turning the ball over five times. From there, however, Wade exploded for totals of 30, 28 and 41 points in the series' final three games—all Miami victories.

Shortly after upending the Oklahoma City Thunder in the Finals, Wade went on to have knee surgery in July that didn't raise any red flags. In turn, he was unable to join Team USA for the London Summer Olympics but recovered in plenty of time to begin the 2012-13 season in fine working order.



What's Next?

Dwyane Wade entered the summer vetoing the possibility of another surgery, but his regimen of treatment and training looks to be robust as ever. A sign the 31-year-old is finally acting his age?

Not according to Wade. He's hobbling into the 2013-14 season as defiant as ever (per South Florida Sun Sentinel's Ira Winderman): "I'm not done yet. I still got more in the tank. Like I said, my focus is just to make sure physically I can do the things I need to do. My skills haven't diminished by no stretch of the imagination."

Between his cutting-edge treatments and working with Grover, Wade may indeed have the last laugh. Pat Riley was already sold in June, telling Dan Le Batard (via ESPN's Brian Windhorst), "He’s going to get down to 212 pounds next year and he’s going to come back and reinvent himself and everyone is going to say 'Wow.'"

All that talk means Wade will have plenty of walking to do. If he can stay on his feet, anyway.

Timeline of Dwyane Wade's Lengthy Injury History







As for Duncan winning "only 3 Finals MVP's" , you do realize that's the tied for 2nd most in NBA history?

of course, why do you think I posted the chart? Lebron has 2 more reg season MVP's; that's why I stated lebron had the higher peak



I don't care about the MVP award. The criteria changes from time to time and no one knows what's its about. Is it an award for best player or best player in the best team? Kareem won it in 1976 when his team didn't even make the playoffs. Nash has the same amount of MVP's as Shaq and Kobe combined.

And that deflates the gas from that graph you brought up.


tenor.gif
 

Lord_Chief_Rocka

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Magic is a better pure PG. Isiah was a scoring PG



what? That was kobe-stan talking point

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/doe...st-longevity-of-any-athelete-in-sports.66496/

they used to say lebron wouldn't last once he lost his athleticism lol







after the first year, they were not a superteam because Wade was always injured




Timeline of Dwyane Wade's Lengthy Injury History









of course, why do you think I posted the chart? Lebron has 2 more reg season MVP's; that's why I stated lebron had the higher peak






tenor.gif
:pachaha:
 
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"Beat his azz yearly"....

2-2 in the playoffs

Pierce 08 and 10
Lebron 11 and 12

I won't go into the years Pierce went to Brooklyn and Lebron beat his azz again and sent him out West..

Pierce up 3-2 at the crib and we know what happened :sas2:
Beat his ass yearly until he formed a super team and the Celtics got old:sas2:

Pierce aint got nothing to be bitter about. He in that zeke, laimbeer class where he can speak on it from an unbiased place:mjgrin:
 
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