Hip Hop Outkast or Mobb Deep...who was the better duo?

[JustCKing]

Well, you're odd. P was as rewind worthy and has as many all time great, classic verses as all those guys. Easily too. And The Infamous is as good as or better any of the albums in that equation.

P was a quotable machine in his prime.

How is that odd? There's a lot of people that don't hold Prodigy in that regard.

 

[Big Mel]

And they're all foolish.

 

[JustCKing]

And they're all foolish.

I get saying Prodigy was great enough to be a Top tier MC in the 90's, but to say that he was a Top tier MC in the 90's is another story. When I think of a 90's Prodigy, I think of an MC that was more slept on than someone that was revered for their lyricism. You had guys like Big Pun who people went crazy over just off his lyrics. Even his most simplistic lines "middle men in the middle of little Italy didn't do diddly" or "even if I stuttered, I'd sh sh s*** on you" are quoted. You had people even doing the same with Inspectah Deck's verse on "Triumph". Then you had people hyping up a Canibus just based off lyrics.

 

[MartyMcFly]

How is that odd? There's a lot of people that don't hold Prodigy in that regard.

I think the people you're referring to who don't hold P in that regard are either the ones who let his current output disregard his past word or they're just not giving dude the credit he deserves and feel like because Mobb Deep wasn't as "big" as other groups and artists during that period, he just gets overlooked. There's a reason dude was sampled on so many songs during that era and a reason HNIC was so anticipated. The voice, the vivid imagery, the allusions, the flow...I'd put P's verses on Apostle's Warning and Still Shinin' up against A LOT of verses from that era. That doesn't mean he's better than the guys who normally get the shine from that era but he could definitely hold his own with them easily.

 

[Ashtrey]

Lil Dap and Malachi the Nutcracker >>>>

 

[JuvenileHell]

That's just something that I'm not in agreeance with. Not saying that he wasn't great, I'm just not seeing where people where putting him up there with the likes of a lot of other lyricists out at the time. Mid-late 90's saw:

Nas- vivid imagery, conceptually great songs, and vivid storytelling

Pac- possessed one of the greatest uses of alliteration ever, vivid imagery, great storytelling

Biggie- crazy wordplay, storytelling, and witty

Common- witty and he penned one of the greatest songs ever in "I Used To Love H.E.R.", just an overall great wordsmith

Scarface- Great storytelling,

Jay Z- one of the wittiest MC's ever, nice storyteller, and great amount of technical skill

Rakim- intricate rhyme schemes, great wordsmith

AZ- crazy rhyme schemes, also a great wordsmith, besides he delivered a standout verse on what's considered one of the most lyrical albums ever

Then you have Raekwon, Ghost, and a couple of other MC's you could put on that list over Prodigy.

In regard to Prodigy, his greatest asset was that he had some of the best opening lines.

Prodigy only has great opening lines? You can't be serious.

Prodigy doesn't use vivid imagery? If anything that's one of his strengths, he always uses dark imagery in his raps.. And on top of that he had one of the illest voices and deliveries I've ever heard, he's one of the most sampled rappers for a reason. How is Prodigy not a good wordsmith? Surely he isn't Nas, but to underrate his rapping skills like this, when songs like these exist, is criminal.







Prodigy mastered the art of making tough talk poetic.

I don't have a problem with most of your arguments in this thread, but you can't be serious with this post

 

[JustCKing]

I think the people you're referring to who don't hold P in that regard are either the ones who let his current output disregard his past word or they're just not giving dude the credit he deserves and feel like because Mobb Deep wasn't as "big" as other groups and artists during that period, he just gets overlooked. There's a reason dude was sampled on so many songs during that era and a reason HNIC was so anticipated. The voice, the vivid imagery, the allusions, the flow...I'd put P's verses on Apostle's Warning and Still Shinin' up against A LOT of verses from that era. That doesn't mean he's better than the guys who normally get the shine from that era but he could definitely hold his own with them easily.

Was he sampled because of his voice/delivery or was it the lyrics themselves? Because this is about him being a Top tier lyricist. I've pretty much said that much. I've never downplayed him as a lyricist. I just said he wasn't top tier.

 

[JuvenileHell]

Was he sampled because of his voice/delivery or was it the lyrics themselves? Because this is about him being a Top tier lyricist. I've pretty much said that much. I've never downplayed him as a lyricist. I just said he wasn't top tier.

How are Tupac and Scarface top tier lyricists and Prodigy isnt? Prodigy uses the same approach to lyricism as the other two do.

 

[JustCKing]

Prodigy only has great opening lines? You can't be serious.

Prodigy doesn't use vivid imagery? If anything that's one of his strengths, he always uses dark imagery in his raps.. And on top of that he had one of the illest voices and deliveries I've ever heard, he's one of the most sampled rappers for a reason. How is Prodigy not a good wordsmith? Surely he isn't Nas, but to underrate his rapping skills like this, when songs like these exist, is criminal.







Prodigy mastered the art of making tough talk poetic.

I don't have a problem with most of your arguments in this thread, but you can't be serious with this post

I never said that "opening lines" was his only asset, I said it was his greatest. Didn't say he didn't use vivid imagery either? Pac and Nas were just better with it. I'm not underrating his skills. I said he was great, just not a contender for greatest.

 

[Art Barr]

It doesn't matter how people perceived Mobb Deep. The FACT is that Juvenile Hell is their debut album and it's being overlooked. Kast and Mobb Deep are like a year a part in age. That makes Mobb about the same age as Kast when Juvenile Hell and Southernplayalistic dropped. That nullifies your argument. You're in here making excuses.


Again more excuses. As a dark horse, he would've had to have been considered a GOAT, even if nobody really expected him to be.

You're really going to act like Wu Tang wasn't a model for them to succeed. They were also labelmates at the time. Mobb Deep had a model and a template to build upon. Everything you said about Mobb's could be attributed to Wu, who was more successful with that style than Mobb.

You were not around back then.

I gave you the cultural basis and facts about the cultural and industry connection in both regards.
If you were around then,...
you would know better than just to write that off.



You talking like a toy,....


Art Barr

 

[JustCKing]

How are Tupac and Scarface top tier lyricists and Prodigy isnt? Prodigy uses the same approach to lyricism as the other two do.

Pac is greater because one of the things that separates him from his counterparts is how he used alliteration, which is best displayed in "If I Die 2nite". With Pac and Face, they were more versatile and diverse with their lyrics. It really wasn't a topic that they couldn't cover lyrically.

 

[JustCKing]

You were not around back then.

I gave you the cultural basis and facts about the cultural and industry connection in both regards.
If you were around then,...
you would know better than just to write that off.



You talking like a toy,....


Art Barr

No you didn't give me cultural basis and facts. You didn't back up how Mobb Deep was culturally bigger in '95 than anyone else at the time.

 

[JuvenileHell]

Pac is greater because one of the things that separates him from his counterparts is how he used alliteration, which is best displayed in "If I Die 2nite". With Pac and Face, they were more versatile and diverse with their lyrics. It really wasn't a topic that they couldn't cover lyrically.

I dunno man, when I hear lyrcism I think strictly about pen game (Basically the level of their use of literary techniques). You're more talking subject matter which I can't argue against.

Prodigy also uses a fair amount of literary techniques as well. Mostly metaphors. Like snakes in Apostles Warning.

The way I see it rap lyrcism has two major schools of thought. Those that value the high level use of metaphors, wordpla and such like Rakims, Nas, Common and such. And then those that are more straight forward with their lyrics (Not necessarily super basic), and focuses more on the delivery/flows whatever. Big, Cube, Pac (Especially Pac), Face and Prodigy use this approach.

Now, if we're talking musically (factoring in flow, delivery, beats and so on) thenI would be inclined to agree with you a bit. But you're talking lyricism.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Was he sampled because of his voice/delivery or was it the lyrics themselves? Because this is about him being a Top tier lyricist. I've pretty much said that much. I've never downplayed him as a lyricist. I just said he wasn't top tier.

I feel like it was both. Anytime you sample someone's voice it's not just because of the delivery but because you're behind what they're saying and feel like it will add to your song. If you don't feel like he's top tier that's cool but I disagree

 

[Art Barr]

That is a common stance but the actuality is that the Tribe albums go in order from best to worst.

I'd accept LET as the best but I don't agree with it. MM was too elctro piano ish and sounded like muzak. still great and has aged well but didn't slam out the box as hard as the first 2.

I agree that tribe actually does descend in release order.
If judged on tribe being a longplayer group.
If tribe is judged on a tape generation group,..
I would say let, is the best.

Similar to gangstarr's discography,....
No more mr nice guy and step in the arena are the best longplayers.
Yet, in tape gen, daily operation is better.

Gangstarr just like tribe, finally got a nod marketing wise from their labels.
At the tail end of a two to three classic lp's.
As the industry koved into the sales spike era.
Where finally gsngstarr got a plaque.
The sales award plague,..that I go over my neighbor's house and stare at, with a smile.

mm, is the album jive gave tribe a bone marketing wise.
As, digable got a Grammy for impersonating q-tip and stole their draw.
Jive was to ignorant to capitalize on their own with, originally.
Midnight marauders is the platinum gateway for general rap fans to appreciate tribe.
It is in no way the best, in their discography.
If you say it is ,...
you expose yourself even further.
to real tribe fans who knew that already about you, anyway.



art barr