Devil Plisken…CMS
Veteran
No disrespect to you but if Shawn Carter asked you for a kiss and promised not to tell anyone I have no idea what you would do.
You’re not fit for a level headed conversation on the topic
No Disrespect
On this day 25 Years ago, Jay Z releases his masterpiece Reasonable Doubt
- Thread starter Street Knowledge
- Start date
No disrespect to you but if Shawn Carter asked you for a kiss and promised not to tell anyone I have no idea what you would do.
You’re not fit for a level headed conversation on the topic
No Disrespect
IWW was not a classic in 96No disrespect to you but if Shawn Carter asked you for a kiss and promised not to tell anyone I have no idea what you would do.
You’re not fit for a level headed conversation on the topic
No Disrespect
and it’s not one in 2021
nas stans know Illmatic the only one and been fishing for another one for damn near 30 years
They call it a classic based on who he became...the first album from Jay-Z. Is it a good album? Yes. Great...possibly for his fans. Classic? Ehhh...if your album doesn't stand out amongst all of the other ish that came out that year, is it really?
It's like in the moment, after he became THE guy, all of his albums were met with such praise, only to not be discussed in any fashion 4-6 months later. All people are saying was that he campaigned hard for his album to be mentioned. Hell, the Source said very solid album. It's a 4 mic album the way Doe or Die and Jealous One's Envy are - they're all practically the same album, with Jay's droppin 1 year later.
Nobody calling 2pac first album classic. And 2pac became arguably to most influential rapper ever. Y’all always run to the source lol
Doggystyle nor the chronic or all eyes on me or ready to die got 5 mics
Alexander Wiggin
All Star
Now you're lying. IWW launch cormega and the firm. Solidified nas as a lyricist. Marked the separation between mainstream and underground for better or worse. Popularized singing hooks. First album with dre and primo on the same album. Solidified havoc as a producer. Nas with this album was one of the rare and first hip hop artist outside of death row/nwa circle and parent friendly rappers to get to number one billboard.
Me livin in Europe we were introduced by nas with IWW. It is a classic, no debate.
Stillmatic too
Alexander Wiggin
All Star
IWW just became 3x platinum. An album that still selling 20plus years after is a classic period
That's not the same case. First of all 2pac in his first 3 album didn't matured as an artist, his personna, style and musical sound really reach his full potential during the death row era. So his first albums were too outdated in every aspect to try to push them as classic.
Second of all Jay and pac are two different artists. Pac let the music speak for it self. Jay always was calculate about how he push his art (what artist he got features with, what producers to choose ect). Rap in ny being ultra competitive he always made sure to position himself in the biggie nas bracket when he really wasn't
Third of all, unlike 2pac, Jay's peak as an artist (not commercially) was during reasonable doubt. Jay was already 26, he had time to master his style during the 7 years he was unsigned and got to see the blueprint (pun intended) nas az rae and biggie lauch before him to see what to do. Nas and biggie are unicorn dropping masterpieces on the first try at their age.
All of that to say the reason Jay pushed reasonable doubt is because although it's his best work, this is not in the heights of biggies and nas joint and being at the status where he is he needed to claim a magnus opus he don't really have. Blueprint not being strong enough.
Reasonable doubt is a classic and stood the test of time yes. But it can't be a masterpiece. When we talk about hip hop, masterpieces either changed the game musically or were commercial huge success or both. Reasonable doubt did neither of those
So illmatic is not a masterpiece to u?
Because that album didn’t sale and I don’t see the impact in other people music around that time
reasonable doubt went gold in 3 months independently and had a gold single the same year. so all this nobody cared never made sense
Alexander Wiggin
All Star
Illmatic didn't sold much, didn't have singles for radio, no huge features and was bootlegged like crazy. But it was a recognized as an instant classic and changed the culture. You didn't see the impact?
ok I see what this is about. Just the super producer format changed everything in rap. And nas style of rhyming produced a lot of clones (milkbone, mix geronimo, early eminem, a + ect) and don't get me started on the cover...
So u just saying the same effects after the fact like reasonable doubt.Illmatic didn't sold much, didn't have singles for radio, no huge features and was bootlegged like crazy. But it was a recognized as an instant classic and changed the culture. You didn't see the impact?
If the source gave illmatic 4.5 mics y’all wouldn’t call that shyt classic lol
that’s y’all crowning jewel a album review that was predetermined that it was getting 5 mics
Alexander Wiggin
All Star
what the fukk are you talmbout ? illmatic had effect the year it was released. reasonable doubt was not talked until the nas/jay beef. before that it was just another good album from that era.
No one with two functional ears have to wait for the source to see that it was a masterpiece. and for the record, having 4 or 4.5 mics on the source at that time meant your album was a classic anyway
the album was one of the most anticipated with doggystyle, the wait was huge. no one gave two shyts about when the first jay z album was about to drop
FunkDoc1112
Heavily Armed
Elliot WIlson's a Jigga dikkrider now but in 96, before Jay-Z was anything, he had it on the money:
Elliott's 1996 'Reasonable Doubt' review
Elliott's 1996 'Reasonable Doubt' review
up in here
Superstar
It’s a classic. It’s not a masterpiece but it’s a classic.
In hip hop we confuse the two terms because The Source rating listed a 5 mic album as “a classic”. A classic is something that you can only judge in retrospect. Something becomes a classic based on how it is looked at over time. A masterpiece is a flawless piece of work and can be recognised as such immediately.
Some classics are masterpieces. Some classics are not masterpieces. And there are waaaaaay more classics then there are masterpieces.
and even the perception of what is a masterpiece is subjective.
In hip hop we confuse the two terms because The Source rating listed a 5 mic album as “a classic”. A classic is something that you can only judge in retrospect. Something becomes a classic based on how it is looked at over time. A masterpiece is a flawless piece of work and can be recognised as such immediately.
Some classics are masterpieces. Some classics are not masterpieces. And there are waaaaaay more classics then there are masterpieces.
and even the perception of what is a masterpiece is subjective.
The beats didn't really match up with where Jay was at talent-wise. He had ridiculous lyrics, he had innovative flows, he was engaging, he was witty, etc. The rapping was A+ but the beats were a C+.
Reese nibbled out.