Official Michael Jordan 'The Last Dance' Doc Thread (NO SPOILERS)

[god shamgod]

@god shamgod thanks for the neg....But I really do think the Curry/KD Warriors would hold their own against the Bulls.. GS was far superior than any team Chicago faced during their 6 championship run.......Orlando and maybe the Blazers are the only teams that could hang with the Warriors.

Edit: How come people keep mentioning Lebron?.......We can't have an honest dialogue about the Chicago Bulls without people inserting Lebron's name into the conversation?...... You clowns are more obsessed with Lebron than the Lebron fans.....I'm out

I negged you cuz you a wakk ass poster

Couldn’t care less about your opinion on Jordan or the bulls opponents collapsing or whatever hypothetical bullshyt you talking bout

 

[606onit]

Jordan documentary Closing Theme:



LeBron James documentary Closing Theme:

 

[nieman]

Scottie would have eaten as a free agent regardless if he indeed signed 1 year contract with the Bulls to make another run for the title.

1999 Free Agent signings:

Look at these bums:

B.J. Armstrong, g Chicago Orlando undisclosed
Bruce Bowen, f Philadelphia Boston undisclosed
Mark Bryant, f Cleveland Chicago undisclosed
Calbert Cheaney, g-f Boston Washington 3 years, $6.6 million
Dell Curry, g-f Toronto Milwaukee 3 years, $6.6 million
Michael Curry, g Detroit Milwaukee 5 years, $12 million
Tony Delk, g Sacramento Golden State multi-year, undisclosed
Todd Fuller, f-c Charlotte Utah undisclosed
Greg Foster, c Seattle Utah three years, $5.5
million
Fred Hoiberg, g Chicago Indiana undisclosed
Grant Long, f Vancouver Atlanta undisclosed
Darrick Martin, g Sacramento LA Clippers undisclosed
Vernon Maxwell, g Seattle Sacramento 3 years, undisclosed
George McCloud, g Denver Phoenix 3 years, $6.6 million
Oliver Miller, c Phoenix Sacramento 1 year, undisclosed
Ruben Patterson, f Seattle LA Lakers undisclosed
Will Perdue, c Chicago San Antonio undisclosed
Olden Polynice, c Utah Seattle undisclosed
Terry Porter, g San Antonio Miami 3 years, $6.6 million
J.R. Reid, f-c Milwaukee LA Lakers multi-year, undisclosed
Rodney Rogers, f Phoenix LA Clippers 3 years, $6.6 million
Detlef Schrempf, f Portland Seattle 2 years, undisclosed
Dennis Scott, f Vancouver Minnesota 1 year, $1 million
Felton Spencer, c San Antonio Golden State undisclosed
Otis Thorpe, f Miami Washington undisclosed
Samaki Walker, f San Antonio Dallas 3 years, $8.8 million
John Wallace, f New York Toronto 3 years, $6.6 million
Bill Wennington, c Sacramento Chicago undisclosed
Aaron Williams, f Washington Seattle undisclosed

They were gonna dump Scottie no matter what though. That relationship was torn beyond repair. They were gonna offer him some trash 1-year deal that would've insulted anyone. For those that read Phil's book, did he say he was offered a chance to come back?

The stories were that it was Phil's last year going into that season. He was out, no matter what. Pippen wasn't gonna be offered another contract, and would MJ want to be a part of a rebuild. With Phil, granted Phil has always been petty, but if you wanted him back, why even put that out there at the beginning of the season? Why not just say "lets see." If Phil comes back, Mike comes back...Scottie is still gonna get offered shytty 1-year though, but I'm sure he gets convinced to come back.

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

MJ: Scott Burrell was a really nice guy. First day I met him, he was really nice....too niceSo from that point on, it became personal. He was on my list

 

[nyknick]

That's all I needed to send Bridges to the G League

 

[Mars]

I negged you cuz you a wakk ass poster

Couldn’t care less about your opinion on Jordan or the bulls opponents collapsing or whatever hypothetical bullshyt you talking bout

I'm a wack poster because you don't agree with my opinions...Had I said Jordan Is hands-down better than Lebron you would be dapping me up.

 

[Rell Lauren]

Overall, the documentary was ok. I really needed to see the archival footage the NBA had and not what we already have seen before and known.

Mike didn't have food poisoning. It's cute that they've run with this story for twenty years now. Anyone who's had it will tell you that you won't have the strength to do what he did between the vomiting, defecation and dehydration.

 

[nieman]

Nah breh the Knicks were on a mission how you think we made the Finals in the first place?

Our defense was monstrous and we was a mentally tough team only reason we was an 8th seed was because of injuries in the season

The Spurs beat us in 5 anyway how did they struggle

That was our perfect storm.

Ahmad Rashad is soooo fortunate there was no coli or social media around when the Bulls had they run.

Cuz the way some of y’all talk shyt about certain star players and their entourage/friends.

No telling what kind of threads y’all would’ve had shytting on him

Shyt, he was talked about then. He and his "main man Jordan."

 

[nieman]

and there were back to backs in the playoffs. No way that old team survives that grind to the end.

There were always back to backs in the playoffs. This 3-5 days in between is new.

 

[Breh the HitMang]

Overall, the documentary was ok. I really needed to see the archival footage the NBA had and not what we already have seen before and known.

Mike didn't have food poisoning. It's cute that they've run with this story for twenty years now. Anyone who's had it will tell you that you won't have the strength to do what he did between the vomiting, defecation and dehydration.

Gatorade stocks mustve went up crazy when he was seen drinking that shyt and proceeded to get 38 points

 

[Rell Lauren]

Gatorade stocks mustve went up crazy when he was seen drinking that shyt and proceeded to get 38 points

I had food poisoning last Summer. Of all the Gatorade I drank, nothing made me feel better. I had to get bed rest and let it run it's course. I think people would be willing to accept that he was hungover.

 

[JA_Carter]

I shyt on Karl Malone a lot but him getting on the Bulls team bus to congratulate them is what true champions do

 

[god shamgod]

Mike didn't have food poisoning. It's cute that they've run with this story for twenty years now. Anyone who's had it will tell you that you won't have the strength to do what he did between the vomiting, defecation and dehydration.

you gotta be a stupid mutha fukka if you really think Jordan was drinking so much he’d be hungover during game 5 of the finals

 

[Rell Lauren]

you gotta be a stupid mutha fukka if you really think Jordan was drinking so much he’d be hungover during game 5 of the finals

Guess I'm a stupid MF. That wasn't food poisoning.

 

[Consumed]

These are different eras. Did you watch any of these games? Did you watch them live, or are you just watching highlights now? Watch the full games, and watch regular season games.

Yes, which is why I'm about to show you some clips from a full game I put together some time ago. Here are some examples of Reggie Miller drawing double teams and creating openings for his teammates off ball. All from the '94 ECF G7 against New York, one of the best defensive teams of all time. You look in the box score of that game and you see he scored 25 points with no extra stats. You might think he didn't impact the game in other ways and you'd be wrong



Notice that Reggie pulls two defenders coming off a screen and leaves a big man wide open for a dunk.



He tags Ewing delaying his ability to prevent Smits from getting deep position.



Here he's being faceguarded by Starks, preventing him from helping on the play entirely (a trend with Miller as you can never give him space), and Miller again makes contact with Ewing preventing him from helping on the drive. This is technically an illegal action, but you can get away with it as he often did.



He again pulls two defenders off a screen, delivers the ball to the screener who against most other teams gets a dunk here. But Patrick Ewing was incredible in this game and manages to both cut him off and make any pass to the other big under the rim difficult. Though it was a 2on1 opportunity created by Reggie, Ewing effectively guards both.



THREE players converge on Miller. Awful pass by McKie that should have been a wide open layup. Check the screenshot -

If these links break I'll upload them to youtube all together. I've had some issue with streamable in the past.

All of this is easy to miss when watching live games as opposed to watching again without focusing on the ball. I don't doubt that you watched his career extensively. But you miss out on so many actions live because you aren't looking at how plays develop away from the ball and there is too much going on to keep track of it all in one sitting without replay.

There were many more possessions worth capturing as well, and against a lower level opponent you can imagine that Reggie creates more scoring opportunities than he does here already. So you are misrepresenting his game by calling him just a scorer and nothing else as he helped his teammates a lot on the floor. When you are this good a shooter and this active in moving around a court you are a headache for defenses to contain. Then when you consider he's dropping 20+ reliably while creating opportunities teammates and you have a strong offensive anchor that helps to explains Indiana's success despite not having any perceived top level players. I'd argue that playing with Reggie does more to unlock guys than playing with Drexler.

he Rip comparisons come from...and if you were watching Ball during Rip's peak, were because they played so similar. They didn't handle the ball, but they moved around tirelessly, coming off curls, screens and quickly getting their shots off. Not Reggie (or Rip) were ones to stand around as set-shooters. The difference is that Rip played 15' and in, while Reggie played 15' and out. Reggie also got fouled a lot on his jumpers...even before he kickouts, there was plenty of grabbing, pulling, and running into him, in contesting the shot. That didn't happen to Rip and being compared to Reggie was even repeated by Reggie himself. Rip was a what...45% shooter, Reggie what 47%. The Richmond comparisons come into play because they were both good SGs, but you weren't going anywhere with them as the team's best player. Reggie has even been an all-star less than Rock. I don't know if you've ever seen Richmond play, but he was a versatlie scorer (outside, inside, from the post, and beat you off the dribble).

I do understand that Rip and Reggie resemble each other stylistically. I'm speaking as in who was better at the game. Rip's best skill was just done better by Miller with zero argument whatsoever to the contrary. He's just a poor man version of Miller, except really poor because he can't shoot threes nearly as reliably.

47% to 45% doesn't do their gap in efficiency any justice as Reggie takes more threes and makes them at a rate that is. Reggie is much, much more efficient than Rip when you take the threes and his free throw rate into account.

Indiana made the NBA Finals with Reggie as their best player and made multiple conference finals with Reggie as their best player. He played well in each of these series. What do we mean a team isn't going anywhere with him as their best player? Compared to Richmond who made the playoffs four times in his whole career? And I understand that the Kings sucked but Mitch wasn't a strong playmaker anyway and didn't elevate the players around him like Reggie. He was a very gifted scorer, I'd agree, but I don't think he's more reliable than Reggie in a playoff environment. And It's damning that when the Warriors traded him for Billy Owens their offense didn't get any worse. Not much proof that he's some impactful offensive player compared to Reggie.

Reggie is considered "overrated" because the only thing that people go to elevate his status are his playoff performances. Everyone knows he routinely got off in the playoffs, but everyone also knows that other than a good Reggie display, they weren't a threat.

I mean, you just watched a Jordan doc when he said Indiana was their 2nd biggest test in the Eastern Conference other than Detroit. And those Pacers gave the Knicks hell. So are you saying 90s basketball was weak back then? Because how could this team have been competitive in the playoffs if they weren't a threat.

I showed you a 100+ game sample size of the postseason in an earlier post. That includes games that no one remembers becuase only his performances against the Knicks are ever talked about.

Him averaging 30 for a 3-4 game stretch isn't really huge.

I entirely disagree. It shows that he is a great scorer. I'm interested in how he performs against playoff defenses, not win loss records.

Reggie didn't slash, didn't pass, didn't rebound, didn't play defense.

Reggie wasn't a slasher, but he did leverage tight coverage into driving opportunities and did have a reliable leaner when cut off. He did pass, this is just false. He would often feed Rik post entry passes, get the ball out quick after being double teamed. He wasn't a good passer, but he was a willing passer. Reggie DID play defense and that's another myth about him. He fought very hard for positioning m2m and was annoying as fukk. Jordan said he hated Reggie because of how much he fought and held him. He didn't back down from assignments. That Pacers team was tough and so was Reggie on both ends of the floor.

Here is are some possessions of him guarding Jordan





Of course, Jordan got the better hand of Miller far more often than not. But it wasn't from a lack of effort, he just lacked the physical tools to be a good defender. Despite that he wasn't a liability because the effort was there and he did have height. and it's not like Clyde was a stopper himself.

But even if you include Playoff Reggie Miller, he was never on that tier of the elite players. He wasn't enough of a rounded player, and he wasn't a great enough scorer (once again, regular season) to even be thought of as up there. He was a shooter. He also shot and played horribly for that "great" 98 Pacers team that pushed the Bulls to 7 games.

I agree that he wasn't on the tier of elite players. Not with Hakeem, Malone, Jordan, Barkley, Robinson, so on. But Drexler wasn't on their tier either, and it is/was wildly overrating to place him in that tier.

Postseason performance > regular season, and in the regular season Miller was good anyway. He peaked in '90 averaging 24ppg on 50/40/86. From '90 to '98 he's at 21.2 ppg. His volume may have only usually hovered around 20ppg, but his efficiency was always strong and this matters because he's making better use of scoring possessions to the benefit of his teams offense. Then when the playoffs roll around he shows that he can ramp up the volume without losing that efficiency. Something few players have done throughout league history.

The '00 Finals was Jalen Rose team, and they were completely different. For one, Jalen was their best player and a ballhandler, which was something they didn't have before. The also mixed it up with shooting, speed, and physical play. Bird had them paying a completely different style, while also allowing Reggie to do what he excelled at. They didn't go to any other NBA Finals. This was in fact, the only Pacers team in the Reggie Miller tenure that were considered legit contenders. The Pacers were always viewed the same as the Hawks that had Mookie & Smitty. Matter of fact, Smitty is another one on that level.

You can be a great team and not go to the NBA finals. The Pacers found themselves in three game 7s against the Knicks, Magic and Bulls respectively. I'd like to think those were contending teams to have pushed the Finals representative to seven games.

The Pacers were Jalen's team except Miller led the team in scoring (by 3.1ppg) and efficiency (by 6 TS%). Rose also didn't get many more box score assists than Reggie (just .7 more) so you don't have an argument for him being a better playmaker. Miller was the best player on the Pacers that postseason.

The Pacers were always viewed the same as the Hawks that had Mookie & Smitty. Matter of fact, Smitty is another one on that level.

Here are some facts about Steve Smith and Reggie Miller in the playoffs -

The Hawks never went passed the semifinals. The Pacers made the ECF three times before Rose. Those perceptions were wrong.

Now as for Clyde, now if you want to say he's not MJ level, he wasn't but who was. BUT he went to 2 Finals (90 against Bad Boys, & 92 vs Bulls) and Clyde was doing his thing in both. Bulls vs Blazers was a good series (EA Sports), but MJ went ballistic. It was a duel with the 2 best players in the NBA. Clyde was considered the 2nd best SG then, discussion for 2nd best player, and was an MVP candidate on an incredible run. The comparisons in their game in anticipation for the matchup was all people talked about. He has at least 2 seasons of 27 7 & 6, and at 1 other season at 25 6 & 6. Now once again, I haven't looked it up his stats in years, but I always debate with my young coworker, and I'll tell him to look it up, and his only response will be "OH" after he checks it out. What Clyde could do is grab the rebound or make a defensive play, go coast to coast, and score or dish off to Buck, Kersey or Duckworth. He could either finish in traffic, or do his funny-looking pull up. He could also stay with the defender, and block the shot. Clyde is just a far better player I do think the '92 Finals year was really his last great season...he was out with a knee injury in '93. They say he was hobbled throughout the playoffs. The gap between MJ & Glide is much smaller than Glide & Reggie. There's no way you were there and could say this. I would recommend watching some Blazers games.

I understand the perception of Drexler. I disagree with it entirely. People were marveling at his athleticism compared to Jordan while not paying attention to his ball handling weakness compared to Jordan, erratic mid range shooting compared to Jordan and having none of the half court nuance of Jordan who was absurdly dominant in this section whereas Clyde was at his best in transition. Clyde had less opportunities to go coast to coast in the NBA postseason. And nd he didn't outproduce Reggie as a scorer comparing their respective primes, or careers as a whole in the postseason. I've already explained how Reggie helps teammates through off ball work in ways that are just as meaningful as Clyde's playmaking.

Completely disagree with Clyde and Jordan being closer than Reggie and Clyde. Now thats overrating him.