Official JOKER Thread (SPOILERS)

[HoloGraphic]

I got more on why this didn't work for me.

The whole film felt like Act 1. The ending should have been the climax. Joker should have been committing more crimes which coincides with his transformation and mental decline. The falling action should have been Joker creating a criminal enterprise while young Bruce vows revenge.


3 aspects on what make Joker: Crime Comedy Insanity.


Crime- yes this Joker was criminal but almost accidentally. He should have turned to crime to take care of his mother like any other goon. Then he would have been more endearing as a character.

Comedy - they took away his greatest character trait. They kick this character so much when he's down he never really gets back up. Arthur's jokes should have improved as he did more crimes and lost his mind more and more which leads to...

Insanity/Madness - this is why he's criminal. Arthur was mentally ill but too much so where we can't see him becoming a criminal mastermind. Jokers Insanity was actually his "genius" it was his gift. Arthur's Insanity should have been what sets him free, it's supposed to be that final crack was exactly what Joker needs to be his true self. His Insanity is where everything clicks, it's his bridge between Crime and Comedy. Madness is his true self.

Granted the movie does show how mental illness does affect those in society who can't be helped. It's a social commentary disguised as a comic book movie I guess we're supposed to ask ourselves why we love and praise Joker so much when in reality this is what he may be like. But this is also fantasy, so I'm not wrong to expect a crimelord.

I'm biggest thing gripe is that Arthur doesn't change. He doesn't evolve and grow as a person. His changes are surface level only. The end scenes show he's still the same Arthur from the Beginning. He isn't Joker by the end of it just a mentally ill man in make up looking for attention. But maybe that's the movies message.

 

[Poetical Poltergeist]

I got more on why this didn't work for me.

The whole film felt like Act 1. The ending should have been the climax. Joker should have been committing more crimes which coincides with his transformation and mental decline. The falling action should have been Joker creating a criminal enterprise while young Bruce vows revenge.


3 aspects on what make Joker: Crime Comedy Insanity.


Crime- yes this Joker was criminal but almost accidentally. He should have turned to crime to take care of his mother like any other goon. Then he would have been more endearing as a character.

Comedy - they took away his greatest character trait. They kick this character so much when he's down he never really gets back up. Arthur's jokes should have improved as he did more crimes and lost his mind more and more which leads to...

Insanity/Madness - this is why he's criminal. Arthur was mentally ill but too much so where we can't see him becoming a criminal mastermind. Jokers Insanity was actually his "genius" it was his gift. Arthur's Insanity should have been what sets him free, it's supposed to be that final crack was exactly what Joker needs to be his true self. His Insanity is where everything clicks, it's his bridge between Crime and Comedy. Madness is his true self.

Granted the movie does show how mental illness does affect those in society who can't be helped. It's a social commentary disguised as a comic book movie I guess we're supposed to ask ourselves why we love and praise Joker so much when in reality this is what he may be like. But this is also fantasy, so I'm not wrong to expect a crimelord.

I'm biggest thing gripe is that Arthur doesn't change. He doesn't evolve and grow as a person. His changes are surface level only. The end scenes show he's still the same Arthur from the Beginning. He isn't Joker by the end of it just a mentally ill man in make up looking for attention. But maybe that's the movies message.

I think you get it. I liked the movie to an extent but I don't think this is a joker movie either. The focus on mental illness makes it more of a movie about someone who just doesn't know who he is and why he exists rather then someone who eventually turns into a criminal mastermind. Arthur is not that dude.

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

Just saw it. Not a fan.

Good movie, acting, cinematography, etc
Story felt underwhelming.



I want to say we got a criminal Gangster Clown Prince of Crime


Heath's Joker had depth, weight, purpose.

I preferred Ledgers version. Dangerous. Gangster. Leader. Criminal. Intelligent.

This Joker is just too much of a victim.

oh, well you already had that, bozo

 

[jwinfield]

Just saw it. Not a fan.

Good movie, acting, cinematography, etc
Story felt underwhelming.

Arthur is a puss the whole movie and it fits the character but I felt his transformation never "completes". Like we're not left off feeling like this guy is a master of chaos.


I want to say we got a criminal Gangster Clown Prince of Crime, but we got a mentally ill man who falls into crime, which is actually more realistic. But where's my super criminal?

I was disappointed at how little "Joker" was in the movie but w.e origin story. The "inner" Joker isn't really there or is just weak. Heath's Joker had depth, weight, purpose.
This Joker literally cries through the whole movie, never grows a spine and never BECOMES Joker. The confident charismatic. This isn't anywhere in his personality even as a hidden trait.
By the end it's like a child got the attention he always wanted not the dawn of a criminal mastermind. His personality doesn't change when he "becomes" Joker. His transformation is surface.



It felt like watching a weaker version of Mr.Robot tbh.
I wish he laughed in the middle of his speeches cause THAT'S crazy. Crazy is unscripted.

I preferred Ledgers version. Dangerous. Gangster. Leader. Criminal. Intelligent.

This Joker is just too much of a victim.

Okay film. Bad super hero movie. Overhyped.

It's an origin movie.

You're comparing the characteristics of Joaquin's Joker, someone that's becoming the Joker, to Heath's Joker, who had been that way for a while.

One of the last scenes of the movie is the Joker standing on top of a car with a crowd cheering him while absolute mayhem surrounds him.

 

[OmegaK2099]

It's an origin movie.

You're comparing the characteristics of Joaquin's Joker, someone that's becoming the Joker, to Heath's Joker, who had been that way for a while.

One of the last scenes of the movie is the Joker standing on top of a car with a crowd cheering him while absolute mayhem surrounds him.

Other people are already doing that, saying he was better than heath and I dont buy it. This was the story about a mentally ill man in the every day struggle not the joker. They actually want to see him in sequels and I'm thinking nah I'd rather see leto come back over Phoenix in a joker part 2

 

[Supa]

Saw it.

Good movie but I felt it dragged a little in the first half/middle. Phoenix put in a great performance.

7.5 maybe 8/10

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

The Joker is a mentally ill man in make up though.

 

[jwinfield]

This Joker literally cries through the whole movie, never grows a spine and never BECOMES Joker. The confident charismatic. This isn't anywhere in his personality even as a hidden trait.

Arthur's Insanity should have been what sets him free, it's supposed to be that final crack was exactly what Joker needs to be his true self.

The focus on mental illness makes it more of a movie about someone who just doesn't know who he is and why he exists rather then someone who eventually turns into a criminal mastermind.

We do see it click for him though, after he kills his mom and realizes that everything was bullshyt. He's no longer on his meds so he stops giving a fukk about making people laugh.

He kills his co-worker, comes out on the Murray show dancing smooth, and then tells Murray he doesn't give a shyt about anything anymore, that killing the guys on the train was funny, how he used to pretend how stuff like that wasn't funny, and jokes that he killed them because they couldn't sing. He admits that he doesn't give a shyt about being a symbol. One of the final scenes is him surrounded by chaos with the

He isn't Joker by the end of it just a mentally ill man in make up looking for attention.

Isn't that who the Joker is?

Heath's Joker said

You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! I just do things.

It's an origin movie. We don't need to see him act exactly like the Joker and doing the types of crimes he's committing 20 years into his career.

I don't think it's hard to see how the man we see mercilessly bashing his co-worker's head to pieces, killing a talk show host on TV, embracing the chaos of Gotham and killing a nurse at what's presumably Arkham, could become the Joker.

We've seen the Joker rob banks, put together ridiculous crimes many times. That wasn't necessary in this movie.

 

[OmegaK2099]

The Joker is a mentally ill man in make up though.

Hes a step beyond the textbook socio/psychopath. Lumping him in with someone with mental health issues is wack.

 

[hex]

Just saw it. Not a fan.

Good movie, acting, cinematography, etc
Story felt underwhelming.

Arthur is a puss the whole movie and it fits the character but I felt his transformation never "completes". Like we're not left off feeling like this guy is a master of chaos.


I want to say we got a criminal Gangster Clown Prince of Crime, but we got a mentally ill man who falls into crime, which is actually more realistic. But where's my super criminal?

I was disappointed at how little "Joker" was in the movie but w.e origin story. The "inner" Joker isn't really there or is just weak. Heath's Joker had depth, weight, purpose.
This Joker literally cries through the whole movie, never grows a spine and never BECOMES Joker. The confident charismatic. This isn't anywhere in his personality even as a hidden trait.
By the end it's like a child got the attention he always wanted not the dawn of a criminal mastermind. His personality doesn't change when he "becomes" Joker. His transformation is surface.



It felt like watching a weaker version of Mr.Robot tbh.
I wish he laughed in the middle of his speeches cause THAT'S crazy. Crazy is unscripted.

I preferred Ledgers version. Dangerous. Gangster. Leader. Criminal. Intelligent.

This Joker is just too much of a victim.

Okay film. Bad super hero movie. Overhyped.

Eh, I respectfully disagree breh.

One of the most popular origin stories for The Joker is "The Killing Joke" and if they did just the origin....meaning, everything leading up to him falling into the acid....it's actually 100x more abrupt and unnatural than anything in this movie.

And Arthur Dent was way more of a bytch in "The Killing Joke" than this.

Fred.

 

[OmegaK2099]

Eh, I respectfully disagree breh.

One of the most popular origin stories for The Joker is "The Killing Joke" and if they did just the origin....meaning, everything leading up to him falling into the acid....it's actually 100x more abrupt and unnatural than anything in this movie.

And Arthur Dent was way more of a bytch in "The Killing Joke" than this.

Fred.

Joker before he fell into the chemicals was a Brilliant chemist, so it made sense hed become the joker. Who is Arthur Dent?

 

[hex]

Joker before he fell into the chemicals was a Brilliant chemist, so it made sense hed become the joker.

Fred.

 

[OmegaK2099]

Fred.

If you read it, it's kind of hard to miss. He quit his job to pursue comedy and he wasnt
mentally ill either

 

[Spades Of Aces]

I think with Leto out as the Joker, it gives great lead way for this Joker to burst into DCEU. Only problem I see is if Robert Pattinson is capable of going toe to toe with Joaquin Phoenix acting wise.

 

[jwinfield]

Joaquin Phoenix Shocked ‘Joker’ Crew by Improvising Refrigerator Scene on First Take

One of the more baffling moments in “Joker” finds Joaquin Phoenix’s Arthur Fleck coping with his violent descent into the eponymous villain by clearing out the contents of his refrigerator so that he can fit inside it. Arthur fits himself into the fridge and shuts the door behind him, as director Todd Phillips holds the shot for a couple extra seconds to show Arthur will remain inside the tight space for awhile. Phoenix’s refrigerator move was an improvisation that no one on the crew knew until the moment happened during filming, “Joker” cinematographer Lawrence Sher reveals in a new interview with /Film.

“While some scenes were very planned out, like when he’s in the phonebooth or walking up the stairs, others had no plan at all,” Sher said. “When he climbed in the refrigerator, we had no idea he was going to do that. We set up two camera positions, and Joaquin just thought about what he would do if he was a massive insomniac. Again, we lit it so he could go anywhere, and the first and only time he did it, we were mesmerized. I remember thinking, ‘What is he doing? Did he just crawl in the fridge?’ It was as fun and weird for us to watch it, too.”