Official Hezbollah/Iran-Israel Regional War Thread

[King Kreole]

It might seem pedantic but I don't think what is happening in Gaza is a genocide, it's an ethnic cleansing IMO.

I've had good-faith arguments with people about this point. I can understand the hesitancy to call it genocide based on certain non-legal definitions (a lot of people think of a genocide solely in the frame of nazi extermination camps), but to me, the targeted destruction of the institutions of Palestinian history and culture align with genocidal intent, especially when one comes to the understanding that Palestinian existence itself is anathema to the Zionist project and its origin principle of "a land without a people, a people without a land". I've heard too many allegedly Liberal Zionists try to argue that Palestinian identity either doesn't exist or is a modern creation ("they're just Jordanians! they're just random Arabs!") to give Zionism the benefit of the doubt on this issue.

 

[King Kreole]

And as I've mentioned before, Israel is attempting to shifting expectations on the viability of terror groups embedding themselves around civilians for protection.

They've basically committed to we will kill you where you are with little or no regard to civilian losses.

So, in other words, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

 

[FAH1223]

 

[Micky Mikey]

on one hand much of their leadership didn't live in Gaza.

And as I've mentioned before, Israel is attempting to shifting expectations on the viability of terror groups embedding themselves around civilians for protection.

They've basically committed to we will kill you where you are with little or no regard to civilian losses.

I detest Israel's handling of this conflict but I can see the logic. It'll be interesting to see how these terror groups change their strategy moving forward. In the case of Hamas it doesn't seem like they have any other option but to embed themselves in the civilian population.

 

[FAH1223]

Can someone explain to me in good faith why this level of precision couldn't be used in Gaza? They completely dismantled an entire terrorist organization in less than a month. Why couldn't this have been applied to Hamas?

Supposedly, the Israelis didn’t have the intelligence (human or otherwise) to penetrate Hamas operations in Gaza.

Gaza is a small place. Everyone knows everyone. Hamas was able to influence or be aware of all activities there.

The Israelis underestimated them and just wrote them off.

Lebanon is different. The Israelis have been preparing a war with Hezbollah for over a decade. But it seems they have invested in non-conventional means and used Mossad to infiltrate Hezbollah at the highest levels.

Lebanon is also multi-religious and factional. Hezbollah is a powerful paramilitary force but they don’t have the same monopoly of power over all Lebanese. With that said, most Lebanese are against another Israeli occupation.

 

[CrimsonTider]

It might seem pedantic but I don't think what is happening in Gaza is a genocide, it's an ethnic cleansing IMO.

what’s Hamas role in this ?

 

[Kooley_High]

Supposedly, the Israelis didn’t have the intelligence (human or otherwise) to penetrate Hamas operations in Gaza.

Gaza is a small place. Everyone knows everyone. Hamas was able to influence or be aware of all activities there.

The Israelis underestimated them and just wrote them off.

Lebanon is different. The Israelis have been preparing a war with Hezbollah for over a decade. But it seems they have invested in non-conventional means and used Mossad to infiltrate Hezbollah at the highest levels.

Lebanon is also multi-religious and factional. Hezbollah is a powerful paramilitary force but they don’t have the same monopoly of power over all Lebanese. With that said, most Lebanese are against another Israeli occupation.

It very clear someone was leaking information to the Mossad on whereabouts and weapons. Hezbollah is not liked by everyone in Lebanon and getting dragged into another war is not something they want.

 

[Kooley_High]

So, in other words, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Using human shields is a war crime as well.

 

[FAH1223]

 

[Liu Kang]

Which makes October 7th even more suspect and their genocidal intent in Gaza even more undeniable.

IMO, Hamas was simply harder to infiltrate than Hezbollah. Mossad has proven time and time that they are very competent but that doesn't mean they are infaillible. Most importantly, they are elite when it comes to technology, which it is said that Hamas didn't use to prepare Oct 7th. Beepers, phones, PCs and stuff are hackable, not word of mouth.

 

[King Kreole]

I detest Israel's handling of this conflict but I can see the logic. It'll be interesting to see how these terror groups change their strategy moving forward. In the case of Hamas it doesn't seem like they have any other option but to embed themselves in the civilian population.

The logic of committing barbaric crimes against humanity has always been evident to all people across history. That's never been in question. The reason most modern states don't do them is because they feel constrained by the relatively novel idea that all humans have inherent rights and worth, so we can't just do whatever we want to them in the name of settling international political disputes. The UDHR was only created within living memory.

History shows us that unless you're committed to literally exterminating an entire people, the "terror groups" that are responding to your oppression cannot be eliminated through even more brutal oppression. Societies and peoples are rarely, if ever, beaten into perpetual submission. People will live in peace when they have their hearts and minds changed. And the hardest desire to change is the one for freedom and self-determination. So as long as the Zionists stay committed to denying that to the Palestinians, they will continue to be in the position of doling out inhuman brutality on their victims. I don't expect the groups resisting Zionist oppression will change their overall approach. They've been incredibly successful recently and Israel is in its most precarious, de-legitimated position since its inception.

 

[King Kreole]

Using human shields is a war crime as well.

Correct. Yet we know that Israel's deployment of this rationale is completely without merit, and it is the IDF who has actually been found guilty of using human shields in the traditional sense of the term as utilized in international law. And even if Hamas/Hezbollah/*insert whatever Arab group Israel is attacking* was intentionally using human shields, killing the human shield is the worse crime.

 

[Liu Kang]

I've had good-faith arguments with people about this point. I can understand the hesitancy to call it genocide based on certain non-legal definitions (a lot of people think of a genocide solely in the frame of nazi extermination camps), but to me, the targeted destruction of the institutions of Palestinian history and culture align with genocidal intent, especially when one comes to the understanding that Palestinian existence itself is anathema to the Zionist project and its origin principle of "a land without a people, a people without a land". I've heard too many allegedly Liberal Zionists try to argue that Palestinian identity either doesn't exist or is a modern creation ("they're just Jordanians! they're just random Arabs!") to give Zionism the benefit of the doubt on this issue.

I can understand this point of view. I just simply do not see the will to exterminate Palestinians and a systemic approach to it.

It's weird to say it but the levels of systemic barbarism in the Armenian, Cambodgian or Rwandan genocides were far higher. I do see the systemic targeting of infrastructure and cultural sites but I do not think that it is enough to call it a genocide.

However, it's clear that there is a will to systemically remove Palestinians from their lands through force which is why this falls under ethnic cleansing to me.

Ultimately, Palestinians don't care if I call it X or Y, their suffering is still the same.

 

[King Kreole]

Biden is an utter disgrace. Never seen a President so cucked. Reaching Bush-tier incompetence.

 

[Cuban Pete]

yup petty beef in islam is their own undoing. they can't even be unified, not serious people at all.

These dudes just wanna party and bullshyt with their oil money and live, they got about 30 years before that shyt runs dry or becomes obsolete

Russia been getting fukking embarrassed for 2 years straight and they show no signs of stopping, North Korea is a habitual line crosser even when theyre being left alone and their demands are met... Islamic leaders are just soft, the ONLY ONES STANDING ON BUSINESS RIGHT NOW are the brehs in Burkina Faso, Mali, and Níger

US support for Israel is at an all time LOW and we aint sending any ground troops there, especially if Kamala gets in office but they still on that shyt lolol

Very unserious tribe of humans

Edit: maybe add Turks and Yemen to the list of thorough Muslims but until further notice Irans and Hezbollas hoe card is effectively pulled