Official Fiscal Cliff Discussion

[cheek100]

I should be seeing page long rants from my Republican friends on FB this week. They gon be shytting bricks

cant wait

 

[Slystallion]

41:1 tax hikes vs spending cuts

That is a motherfukking blowout in political terms. Usually, it's like 3:1, 2:1, something along those lines. Liberals need to stand the fukk up today. This is a watermark day for us. Additionally, Obama gave a hard line on the debt ceiling. Obama found his balls for his second term.

Your happy about debt staying unsustainable? Those tax rates won't bring extra revenue or decrease national debt.

This is basically punting and not going bold in either direction left or right.

So few people have a grasp of the big picture and skim through media making small things into big issues? A 3% tax increase even going by the false premise that raising taxes increases revenues isn't enough to cut debt. People don't recognize tradeoffs either... more taxes less investments in jobs and in their products and services...less spending...which reduces taxpayers and brings in less sales tax revenue.

Stop being taken captive by media and their propensity to market everything like its the biggest issue in the world or the world will end...

 

[iceberg_is_on_fire]

Michelle Malkin was already going in on Paul Ryan. Republicans eat their own. People are going to be primaried in 2014

 

[CASHAPP]

Barry Pending Legacy(Domestic)

ObamaCare
Tax Reform
Comprehensive Gun Control Reform with No Loopholes/ Background Checks
Dream Act/ Comprehensive Immigration Reform
"Cap and Trade" Climate Change
Respect For Marriage Act
Student Loan Forgiveness Act
Revitilization Of American Infrastructure
Fair Minimum Wage Act(passed after Dems regain seats in House)
Fair Sentencing Act For Drug Offenses(updates to 1:1 ratio)
Responsible Fatherhood and Healthy Families Act

 

[FAH1223]

So The Republican-controlled House of Representatives just voted to stop the tax hikes that took place this morning on 100% of Americans...yet managed to agree to kick the over $1 trillion in spending cuts down the road for 2 more months...just in time to coincide with the Debt Ceiling limit increase, where the Republicans have promised to not pay America's bills racked up from last year and default on our loan payments unless they get whatever they want in cuts, especially to Medicare (the recipients of which, ironically, vote mostly Republican).

August 2011 redux soon...

 

[kermit da hustla]

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Obama just made Republicans vote to raise taxes for the first time in 20 yrs. Think about that.

No, he didn't. We need to stop this narrative that Politician A made event A happen. No.

This is why the electorate falls back on their ass and criticizes shyt when it goes wrong (stimulus package), and prematurely celebrates when things seem right (Obamacare).

A poor economy, and an electorate that philosophically agreed with all of the tax hikes made republicans vote to raise taxes.

This is not Obama's victory. For the first time, we were able to reverse the dumbass logic of baby boomers and generation x'ers.

The republicans didn't cave due to Obama's unwavering commitment to basic economic principles. The republicans caved because they see that the country does not agree with their political views. So they're willing to make small and slight compromises to come off as reasonable (all the while sitting in the cut trying to sabotage any and all success). This tax hike situation is NOOOO different then them presenting their own version of the Dream Act.

This fight ain't over. All of these things are extensions. Which means we have to vote on them AGAIN. Which means that from today, January 1st, there will be economic data gathered for use against the democrats in the following election. If any of these tax hikes, were to cause a negative effect on the economy, our tv's will be swaaaamped with political ads and bullshyt.

 

[No1]

No, he didn't. We need to stop this narrative that Politician A made event A happen. No.

This is why the electorate falls back on their ass and criticizes shyt when it goes wrong (stimulus package), and prematurely celebrates when things seem right (Obamacare).

A poor economy, and an electorate that philosophically agreed with all of the tax hikes made republicans vote to raise taxes.

This is not Obama's victory. For the first time, we were able to reverse the dumbass logic of baby boomers and generation x'ers.

The republicans didn't cave due to Obama's unwavering commitment to basic economic principles. The republicans caved because they see that the country does not agree with their political views. So they're willing to make small and slight compromises to come off as reasonable (all the while sitting in the cut trying to sabotage any and all success). This tax hike situation is NOOOO different then them presenting their own version of the Dream Act.

This fight ain't over. All of these things are extensions. Which means we have to vote on them AGAIN. Which means that from today, January 1st, there will be economic data gathered for use against the democrats in the following election. If any of these tax hikes, were to cause a negative effect on the economy, our tv's will be swaaaamped with political ads and bullshyt.

I have to disagree with you. There were many Obama policies were initially popular and popular when framed the right way that Republicans sabotaged. They would not have raised taxes if they did not have to. They had to precisely because of the situation they were put in by the administration. This doomsday scenario was set up by Democrats, they forced the Republicans hand. You cannot look at a party that thrived on doing nothing for 4 years, regardless of what the public believed and then turn around and say that they acted because of public pressure. The public pressure came precisely because it was either or by design at this juncture.

In any other circumstance they would have fought this and spinned it as an Obama failure. You're missing the fact that for a rare moment, Democrats, though not getting everything they wanted, outmaneuvered Republicans. They just sped up the process of infighting that the election inched forward. Obama did win today, it was a moderate win, but it is his win.

 

[FAH1223]

House Speaker John Boehner couldn’t hold back when he spotted Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in the White House lobby last Friday.

It was only a few days before the nation would go over the fiscal cliff, no bipartisan agreement was in sight, and Reid had just publicly accused Boehner of running a “dictatorship” in the House and caring more about holding onto his gavel than striking a deal.

“Go f— yourself,” Boehner sniped as he pointed his finger at Reid, according to multiple sources present.

Reid, a bit startled, replied: “What are you talking about?”

Boehner repeated: “Go f— yourself.”

Read more: The fiscal cliff deal that almost wasn't - John Bresnahan and Carrie Budoff Brown and Manu Raju and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

 

[tru_m.a.c]

This doomsday scenario was set up by Democrats, they forced the Republicans hand. You cannot look at a party that thrived on doing nothing for 4 years, regardless of what the public believed and then turn around and say that they acted because of public pressure.

The public they disregarded were the Democratic base. It was whatever was sent through liberal communication. Up until the election, the republicans simply did not believe that Americans agreed with the philosophies of the democratic party. The proof is the response to the election. The utter shock at voter turnout. The disbelief that republicans were turning democrat. The republicans didn't even factor in engaged minorities voters when they were doing the polls.

But now they see that moderate republicans are actually LEAVING the conservative bubble. Like I said, if you don't think they're swayed by public opinion (now), then you're overlooking things like the Dream Act or republicans like Peter King coming out after the election and publicly stating that he wasn't binded to that no tax pledge.

In any other circumstance they would have fought this and spinned it as an Obama failure. You're missing the fact that for a rare moment, Democrats, though not getting everything they wanted, outmaneuvered Republicans.

Yeah this is where we part ways. We disagree because you think the Democrats planned this from last years credit rating fiasco.

And I can prove that the perfect situation simply happened to land in the Democrats lap.

1. The Democrats didn't have to have a strategy. We, you, I, every media outlet said, "Obama simply doesn't have to do anything...he could just let us go off the cliff."

2. Again, the terms of the debt ceiling were signed and sealed through the election. The election WAS the debt ceiling negotiation. Everything that was agreed upon in the debt ceiling were/are cornerstones of the Obama administration.

3. Again, the republicans hands were tied. There was absolutely nothing they could do. We did the Gang of 6 the 12 Dalmatians, all that bullshyt. Both parties agreed on double dip recession level cuts on a fabricated date. You say the dems had this all planned. Well what would the situation be had romney won the election? How do the Dems out maneuver the republicans at that point? What's their bargaining chip? Where's the advantage? The election was always going to determine the debt ceiling agreement. And you simply can't "plan" to win an election lol. You can want to. You can try your hardest. But ultimately it depends on whether or not the people identify with you. Public support for tax hikes by republicans and democrats made this possible. The economy still being shyt and Americans depending on unemployment benefits made this possible. Colleges putting students in a lifetime of debt made this possible. And Americans for once, awoken by Bill Clinton, realized that the math simply wasn't making sense anymore. So to say that 1 man was the cause for victory is just not true. I hate to use a cliche but, "This one was because of the American people."

 

[El Bombi]

Obama is going back to Hawaii to tear that ass up.

 

[No1]

The public they disregarded were the Democratic base. It was whatever was sent through liberal communication. Up until the election, the republicans simply did not believe that Americans agreed with the philosophies of the democratic party. The proof is the response to the election. The utter shock at voter turnout. The disbelief that republicans were turning democrat. The republicans didn't even factor in engaged minorities voters when they were doing the polls.

This is wrong. They ignored polling numbers that showed certain policies were popular when they don't want to support them like they always do. If they do adjust they then pretend that it was a Republican idea or just re-frame the argument. They were in utter belief that they could lose, but any knowledgeable Republican analyst knows that certain policies are popular by the general populace. I'm half asleep so forgive me not going and getting the sources for you and providing you the names.

But the majority of Americans, and a vast majority at that, believe that CEOs are paid to much. A vast majority of Americans believe that most workers are not paid enough in comparison to their higher ups. A vast majority of Americans believe that college tuition costs to much and I can go on and on. For each of those categories the numbers are greater among Democrats than Republicans but they are still either supported by majorities or near majorities of Republicans. In other words, Republicans have ignored the desires of the American working class for over a decade and either pointed their attention elsewhere or misrepresented the position of their opponents.

Here's a kicker, polls even show that the majority of Americans want the GOVERNMENT to fix the problem.

But now they see that moderate republicans are actually LEAVING the conservative bubble. Like I said, if you don't think they're swayed by public opinion (now), then you're overlooking things like the Dream Act or republicans like Peter King coming out after the election and publicly stating that he wasn't binded to that no tax pledge.

Whether they are swayed by a conservative bubble or not is not the point. Romney said that he did not think 47% of the country would vote for him. He just misjudged the numbers. Obama gained a lower percentage of the electorate and popular vote than he did last time. But a large number of would-be conservatives just stayed home. Those white voters that did vote, that Republican base, voted for their party in higher percentages than they did last time.

Do not make the mistake of reading too much from this election like Republicans did when Bush won a second term.

Yeah this is where we part ways. We disagree because you think the Democrats planned this from last years credit rating fiasco.

And I can prove that the perfect situation simply happened to land in the Democrats lap.

1. The Democrats didn't have to have a strategy. We, you, I, every media outlet said, "Obama simply doesn't have to do anything...he could just let us go off the cliff."

No, I didn't. Anyone who said that wasn't thinking. Going over the cliff wasn't going to make the House Republicans anymore likely to cave on various issues. I knew that from the jump. Why are talking like this is Newt Gingrich getting styled on by Bill Clinton.

2. Again, the terms of the debt ceiling were signed and sealed through the election. The election WAS the debt ceiling negotiation. Everything that was agreed upon in the debt ceiling were/are cornerstones of the Obama administration.

Again, the republicans hands were tied. There was absolutely nothing they could do. We did the Gang of 6 the 12 Dalmatians, all that bullshyt. Both parties agreed on double dip recession level cuts on a fabricated date. You say the dems had this all planned. Well what would the situation be had romney won the election? How do the Dems out maneuver the republicans at that point? What's their bargaining chip? Where's the advantage? The election was always going to determine the debt ceiling agreement.

First off, stop referencing the debt ceiling. You keep calling this the debt ceiling and this is the fiscal cliff debate. The debt ceiling drama will come in February and THAT will determine whether or not the Democrats won.

And you simply can't "plan" to win an election lol. You can want to. You can try your hardest. But ultimately it depends on whether or not the people identify with you.

My dude, what in the world are you talking about? OF COURSE YOU CAN PLAN TO WIN AN ELECTION. This is what we call contingency plans. Do you understand how many deals are made behind closed doors and in those halls contingent on someone winning or a party winning? Agendas have been punted towards presumptive second terms all throughout political history. Of course the public made it possible in the literal sense. If :obamaword: doesn't win then it's all a wrap.

Public support for tax hikes by republicans and democrats made this possible. The economy still being shyt and Americans depending on unemployment benefits made this possible. Colleges putting students in a lifetime of debt made this possible. And Americans for once, awoken by Bill Clinton, realized that the math simply wasn't making sense anymore. So to say that 1 man was the cause for victory is just not true. I hate to use a cliche but, "This one was because of the American people."

No one said, one man is responsible. But you're making a closing argument that applies to any bill's passage. The rest of your argument is full of a false sense of the state of affairs. All those scenarios you just listed were present when Obama first became president sans Bill Clinton. I really think that you somehow have been led to believe that there has been this big sway in public opinion on the issue. That is wrong. The same percentages of people supported the raising of taxes on the wealthy during the 2011 debt ceiling debate. And they didn't give a damn about fukking over the country then.

So yes, this passed precisely because

Boehner gave his members a choice.

The House Republican Conference could attach spending cuts, which would likely kill the bill — and leave them shouldering all of the blame for the largest tax hike in American history. Or they could vote up or down on the Senate bill.

They chose the latter.

:obamaword: Oh and shout out to @LegendNas dapping up everything.

 

[CASHAPP]

This is wrong. They ignored polling numbers that showed certain policies were popular when they don't want to support them like they always do. If they do adjust they then pretend that it was a Republican idea or just re-frame the argument. They were in utter belief that they could lose, but any knowledgeable Republican analyst knows that certain policies are popular by the general populace. I'm half asleep so forgive me not going and getting the sources for you and providing you the names.

But the majority of Americans, and a vast majority at that, believe that CEOs are paid to much. A vast majority of Americans believe that most workers are not paid enough in comparison to their higher ups. A vast majority of Americans believe that college tuition costs to much and I can go on and on. For each of those categories the numbers are greater among Democrats than Republicans but they are still either supported by majorities or near majorities of Republicans. In other words, Republicans have ignored the desires of the American working class for over a decade and either pointed their attention elsewhere or misrepresented the position of their opponents.

Here's a kicker, polls even show that the majority of Americans want the GOVERNMENT to fix the problem.

Whether they are swayed by a conservative bubble or not is not the point. Romney said that he did not think 47% of the country would vote for him. He just misjudged the numbers. Obama gained a lower percentage of the electorate and popular vote than he did last time. But a large number of would-be conservatives just stayed home. Those white voters that did vote, that Republican base, voted for their party in higher percentages than they did last time.

Do not make the mistake of reading too much from this election like Republicans did when Bush won a second term.



No, I didn't. Anyone who said that wasn't thinking. Going over the cliff wasn't going to make the House Republicans anymore likely to cave on various issues. I knew that from the jump. Why are talking like this is Newt Gingrich getting styled on by Bill Clinton.



First off, stop referencing the debt ceiling. You keep calling this the debt ceiling and this is the fiscal cliff debate. The debt ceiling drama will come in February and THAT will determine whether or not the Democrats won.

My dude, what in the world are you talking about? OF COURSE YOU CAN PLAN TO WIN AN ELECTION. This is what we call contingency plans. Do you understand how many deals are made behind closed doors and in those halls contingent on someone winning or a party winning? Agendas have been punted towards presumptive second terms all throughout political history. Of course the public made it possible in the literal sense. If :obamaword: doesn't win then it's all a wrap.



No one said, one man is responsible. But you're making a closing argument that applies to any bill's passage. The rest of your argument is full of a false sense of the state of affairs. All those scenarios you just listed were present when Obama first became president sans Bill Clinton. I really think that you somehow have been led to believe that there has been this big sway in public opinion on the issue. That is wrong. The same percentages of people supported the raising of taxes on the wealthy during the 2011 debt ceiling debate. And they didn't give a damn about fukking over the country then.

So yes, this passed precisely because

:obamaword: Oh and shout out to @LegendNas dapping up everything.

 

[No1]

Where's my dap

 

[CASHAPP]

Obama sure loves to prove right all the time