doublex

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shyt like that is why I have complete faith in Nate Moore, Ryan Coogler, and Chadwick Boseman.

They REALLY understand and respect the mythos.

It would be great if all three men who aspire to the throne had a very different direction in which they wanted to take Wakanda:

  • T'Challa: Wants to reach out to the world and work with outsiders to solve global issues (like climate change) that will ultimately effect Wakanda.
  • M'Baku: Traditionalist, isolationist, wants Wakanda to remain closed-off and unchanging.
  • Killmonger: Warmonger, wants Wakanda to become an imperialist nation and use Wakandan technology to conquer other nations.

I like that better than the idea of M'Baku and Killmonger wanting the same thing.
 

Norrin Radd

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It would be great if all three men who aspire to the throne had a very different direction in which they wanted to take Wakanda:

  • T'Challa: Wants to reach out to the world and work with outsiders to solve global issues (like climate change) that will ultimately effect Wakanda.
  • M'Baku: Traditionalist, isolationist, wants Wakanda to remain closed-off and unchanging.
  • Killmonger: Warmonger, wants Wakanda to become an imperialist nation and use Wakandan technology to conquer other nations.

I like that better than the idea of M'Baku and Killmonger wanting the same thing.
Same here.
 

Dr. Narcisse

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M'Baku swagged out like a mothrfukka. @Ziggiy Coogler and crew know not to call him Man Ape.
It would be great if all three men who aspire to the throne had a very different direction in which they wanted to take Wakanda:

  • T'Challa: Wants to reach out to the world and work with outsiders to solve global issues (like climate change) that will ultimately effect Wakanda.
  • M'Baku: Traditionalist, isolationist, wants Wakanda to remain closed-off and unchanging.
  • Killmonger: Warmonger, wants Wakanda to become an imperialist nation and use Wakandan technology to conquer other nations.

I like that better than the idea of M'Baku and Killmonger wanting the same thing.
Yea thats the thing I wonder....I really hope M'Baku and Killmonger are very different. I saw a youtube video breaking down everything describing Killmonger basically like M'Baku. I hope that isn't the case.
 

Birnin Zana

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M'Baku swagged out like a mothrfukka. @Ziggiy Coogler and crew know not to call him Man Ape.

Yea thats the thing I wonder....I really hope M'Baku and Killmonger are very different. I saw a youtube video breaking down everything describing Killmonger basically like M'Baku. I hope that isn't the case.

Killmonger is nowhere close to being the traditionalist that M'Baku is. Killmonger's village has a lot of western influences. Killmonger and M'Baku don't even like each other.

Only thing Killmonger and M'Baku have in common is their dislike of T'Challa. That's it.
 

Dr. Narcisse

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Killmonger is nowhere close to being the traditionalist that M'Baku is. Killmonger's village has a lot of western influences. Killmonger and M'Baku don't even like each other.

Only thing Killmonger and M'Baku have in common is their dislike of T'Challa. That's it.

I know that. I'm saying a video describing Killmonger (can't remember which one) for the movie was making him sound a lot like M'Baku.
 

Birnin Zana

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I know that. I'm saying a video describing Killmonger (can't remember which one) for the movie was making him sound a lot like M'Baku.

Breh, there's soo many videos claiming a lot of BP alternative facts and claiming them as truth, shyt is crazy. :snoop:

If movie's popularity means that folks will actually read the damn books for a change, it'll be worth it lol.
 
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Mic-Nificent

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Killmonger is nowhere close to being the traditionalist that M'Baku is. Killmonger's village has a lot of western influences. Killmonger and M'Baku don't even like each other.

Only thing Killmonger and M'Baku have in common is their dislike of T'Challa. That's it.

I swear I've yet to see a Youtube breakdown of the Black Panther mythos that doesn't have at least a few things that are just made up. I get that the mythos is complicated because of retcons, but some people just make shyt up and throw it out there like nobody is going to notice.

Killmonger had McDonalds franchises in his village and was hoping to host the NHL playoffs. :mjlol:
 

Dr. Narcisse

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ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Okoye exists in the comics, and she has been loyal to T’Challa through good times and bad. What do we need to know about the movie’s version of her?
DANAI GURIRA:
She is an extremely proud Wakandan. She’s very proud of her people, her country, and her heritage. She is a traditionalist. She is rooted in what is, what has been done, how we do things as Wakandans. How wehave done things, and how that must be preserved.

What’s her relationship to the king?
She is a lover and protector of her people and of the throne. To protect the throne, you are protecting the core institution of the nation, which allows it to thrive. She has a deep passion and connection to her country, to her people, and to the very special nature of who and what they are. Preserving that is something that is at the core of who she is.

How does she feel about how T’Challa is ruling?
[Shrugs] She’s not in conflict with him. They work together. She works with him and she cares deeply for the royal family.

Wakanda is a century ahead of the rest of the world. They mine Vibranium, and develop astounding technology from it. What’s it like bringing that world to life?
When you see Wakanda, you see this very unusual world that you have never seen prior. Seeing all those people living and thriving in specific ways as a result of the protection that Wakanda is under is something that fuels her passion to keep her country safe and prosperous.

The country is closed off from other countries, partly to protect itself. What’s Okoye’s feeling about Black Panther opening up to the rest of the world. Is she against reaching beyond their borders?
Being the head of the Dora Milaje and losing a monarch in somewhat of a security breech situation is not something that sits well in her soul. The desire to make sure that never happens again is something very intrinsic to who she is.

What’s Okoye’s backstory? How did she rise to the position of head of the Dora Milaje?
She is from the border tribe. [This is the group that maintains the disguise that Wakanda is a modest, agrarian nation.] She is not someone who rolled out of bed and got where she is. She is someone who is purposeful. She has been purposeful all her life.

Can you tell me about the tattoo markings on your head? What do they signify?
You can look at it from various ways. The Dora Milaje have been rendered differently through various editions of the comic book. There has been quite an evolution. The evolution into them looking somewhat like what I have going on right now is probably one of the most recent additions you will find. It is very specific to these women, who have dedicated themselves and their lives to the protection, honor, and preservation of this kingdom. That comes with its markings.

Why is it important for the Dora Milaje to be only women?
[Smiles] Why not?

I mean, is Wakandan culture more matriarchal than our own? More open to strong women in leadership roles?
They are not utopic, but what Wakanda has down well is it has honored people by allowing them to function within their strengths. These women are functioning within their strengths. Their strength is to preserve Wakanda in a Special Forces-type way. It’s more like a Secret Service in a sense that it’s also very much about intel. It’s not just military. [Okoye] is head of intel. [Laughs] She is a busy woman.

What can you tell me about Okoye’s personality away from her work?
She can be serious, but she also has an unexpected sense of humor. She has a heart for her country and for her people. She’s not a person who doesn’t connect to human beings as a result of what she does, but she is very devoted to what she does.

Lupita Nyong’o’s Nakia is a special agent for Wakanda, who often works outside the nation. What is Okoye’s relationship like with her? Friends? Rivals?
[Smiles] We’ll have to see. Maybe I have told you too much already.



From Michonne to Marvel: Danai Gurira Brings Fierce Loyalty to 'Black Panther'
 

teacher

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We weren't discussing whether or not the writers are/were feminists or not (and I honestly don't care). You claimed that Coates was the only writer imply that Wakanda might have a matriarchal bent, and that's not accurate. Hudlin was the first writer to do that. Deadliest of the Species specifically centered Shuri, Storm, and Ramonda as the central figures in the story and showed them running and defending Wakanda. Even during parts of the Priest run there are a few elements here and there, especially when looking a the conversations QDJ has with her grandmother and "Big Mama".

You seem to be conflating my issues with Coates with other peoples disdain for "SJW comics". I don't care that Coates is a feminist, nor am I the type of person that uses "feminist" as a pejorative or complains about feminism.

Like I said my beef with Coates boils down to his depiction of T'Challa. I think his take on T'Challa is fukking horrible.

I WANTED to see the Dora Milaje become more fleshed out, I wanted to see more of Ramonda, I wanted to see more of Shuri, I even wanted to see more stuff between T'Challa and Storm....What I didn't want was to see those characters built up at the expense of T'Challa. A good comic book writer can develop and flesh out a supporting cast without making the main character uninteresting, unsympathetic, and incompetent.

not saying Coates is doing the best job of portraying t'challa(it has progressively gotten better ie 'character development'), but a character being to perfect is Uninteresting to, see Superman in general. That's why priest had to do something so ridiculous as killing him because the cac was approaching and hudlin teamed him up with FF4 IMHO
 

Mic-Nificent

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Breh, there's soo of videos claiming a lot of BP alternative facts and claiming them as truth, shyt is crazy. :snoop:

If movie's popularity means that folks will actually read the damn books for a change, it'll be worth it lol.

I've lost track of how many vids I've seen that try to push the idea that the whole "King of the Dead" thing is some long time standard power set for Black Panther and not something that's recent.

I also see a lot of vids where people try to downplay how smart T'Challa is or make it a point to say he's not quite a strong as Steve Rogers. Even saw one that said Peter Parker was smarter than T'Challa.:mjpls:
 

Mic-Nificent

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not saying Coates is doing the best job of portraying t'challa(it has progressively gotten better ie 'character development'), but a character being to perfect is Uninteresting to, see Superman in general. That's why priest had to do something so ridiculous as killing him because the cac was approaching and hudlin teamed him up with FF4 IMHO

I reject the notion that T'Challa has ever been portrayed as "Perfect". That's just a lazy analysis of previous Black Panther runs.

Priest's Black Panther was incredibly competent, capable and he always won, but it was at a great cost (Nakia's fall, damaging his relationship with the Avengers, the brain aneurysm, isolating himself from family and friends).

Hudlin's run was a straight up action adventure series that was basically a cross between Indiana Jones and old school Fantastic Four comics. There's obviously not as much pathos in that series because of the tone but T'Challa is portrayed as arrogant and unwilling to ask others for help. The character has flaws but those flaws weren't the focus of the series.

I've never advocated for a "Perfect" T'Challa, if I did I wouldn't hold up the Priest series as the best interpretation of the character and I certainly wouldn't have enjoyed the Hickman stuff. Coates portrays T'Challa as downright incompetent at times. He thinks he's showing T'Challa struggling and to add drama but it juts makes the character look bad.

What's frustrating is that the Dora Milaje are portrayed as interesting and capable characters. They're not shown constantly getting their ass kicked, making obviously dumb decisions, or being portrayed as uncaring or indifferent. Even when they do bad things in the series they're still held up as having the best intentions and being morally in the right. They're interesting characters that are flawed but still highly capable.

Coates has been writing Black Panther for over a year and we've yet to see T'Challa fix a problem on his own, have an original idea, have a "cool"/"Iconic" moment, or even a brilliant plan.

It briefly got better in the sense that T'Challa was the focus of the story for a couple of issues and every other character wasn't shytting on him, but the shyt regressed again with the last issue where the Dora Milaje were still mad at him for no fukking reason and he gave Storm that "I aint shyt, you're perfect, please save me" speech.

One of the reasons I say that Coates is full of shyt is that he claims he doesn't find "perfect" characters interesting, but Storm is his favorite character and she hasn't shown anything approaching a flaw in Black Panther or in Black Panther and the crew.
 

teacher

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I reject the notion that T'Challa has ever been portrayed as "Perfect". That's just a lazy analysis of previous Black Panther runs.

Priest's Black Panther was incredibly competent, capable and he always won, but it was at a great cost (Nakia's fall, damaging his relationship with the Avengers, the brain aneurysm, isolating himself from family and friends).

Hudlin's run was a straight up action adventure series that was basically a cross between Indiana Jones and old school Fantastic Four comics. There's obviously not as much pathos in that series because of the tone but T'Challa is portrayed as arrogant and unwilling to ask others for help. The character has flaws but those flaws weren't the focus of the series.

I've never advocated for a "Perfect" T'Challa, if I did I wouldn't hold up the Priest series as the best interpretation of the character and I certainly wouldn't have enjoyed the Hickman stuff. Coates portrays T'Challa as downright incompetent at times. He thinks he's showing T'Challa struggling and to add drama but it juts makes the character look bad.

What's frustrating is that the Dora Milaje are portrayed as interesting and capable characters. They're not shown constantly getting their ass kicked, making obviously dumb decisions, or being portrayed as uncaring or indifferent. Even when they do bad things in the series they're still held up as having the best intentions and being morally in the right. They're interesting characters that are flawed but still highly capable.

Coates has been writing Black Panther for over a year and we've yet to see T'Challa fix a problem on his own, have an original idea, have a "cool"/"Iconic" moment, or even a brilliant plan.

It briefly got better in the sense that T'Challa was the focus of the story for a couple of issues and every other character wasn't shytting on him, but the shyt regressed again with the last issue where the Dora Milaje were still mad at him for no fukking reason and he gave Storm that "I aint shyt, you're perfect, please save me" speech.

One of the reasons I say that Coates is full of shyt is that he claims he doesn't find "perfect" characters interesting, but Storm is his favorite character and she hasn't shown anything approaching a flaw in Black Panther or in Black Panther and the crew.

I think the idea of how to save Shuri was 'cool' or 'iconic' as well as the formation of the council, even when he infiltrated Zenzi the first time before Tetu served him or when he infiltrated Stane the ideas for the most part were his they weren't directly told to him but he was able to formulate these ideas himself from conversations. Coates has experience with women imo....women can dish it but can't take it...if you learn that you will be in a long happy relationship. That's why i have no problems with his portrayals of t'challa's interaction with women it's pretty realistic unless you are a pimp or an abusive partner...they come at you with the strength of a hurricane but you still handle them with the care of a new born baby. I woman you care for will say things your worst enemy wouldn't say to you because they know it would be a fight on sight....you just gotta chalk it up to hormones it is what it is and do your best to move forward if possible :yeshrug:
 

teacher

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I've lost track of how many vids I've seen that try to push the idea that the whole "King of the Dead" thing is some long time standard power set for Black Panther and not something that's recent.

I also see a lot of vids where people try to downplay how smart T'Challa is or make it a point to say he's not quite a strong as Steve Rogers. Even saw one that said Peter Parker was smarter than T'Challa.:mjpls:

Peter Parker believes that he was on some :wtf: when t'challa said he would put foot to azz if he interfered again when he was in hell's kitchen...
 
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