Official Bernie Sanders HQ: Not Me, Us!

[wtfyomom]

I've been beating this drum heavy. The last debate, they talked about environmental plans with almost everyone but skipped Bernie who only has the most ambitious plan out of anyone in the race. It's the same for the criminal justice reform bill and the housing plan. Those plans just need exposure and I think a lot of people will say "that sounds really good" but it would dispel the idea that Bernie doesn't have plans. This is beyond frustrating but you can see just delving into the stickied Primary thread that even well informed voters haven't seen much of what Bernie's offering and they certainly haven't seen it detailed.



I actually disagree with this one. I think Warren DID pop because of her proposals. But the difference between her and Bernie is that those proposals got coverage and were pumped up as "look at all this detail" while Bernie's proposals don't get the media coverage. Even when Bernie's plans did see light, it was always framed in the lowest common denominator (the Republican framing). Warren only saw those frames after she gained traction but it was too late. People had seen the plans and realized they were good ideas. That's why I like to bring up how Bernie 2016 is a big comparable to Warren 2020, the Bernie plans were attacked but now that they've been revisited in a fair light, they look fantastic to the same establishment heads that went full Chicken Little about that ish last time. It's definitely calculated how this stuff is covered imo and Warren is gonna run into more negative press now imo...it's just probably too late. Once people see the concepts in full without a bunch of BS attached, they realize the ideas are good.

This is best exuded by the wealth tax BS. Warren's wealth tax universally admired and polled excellently; Bernie's a bridge too far and covered as "he wants Billionaires dead" as opposed to what he really means which is "concentrations of power and wealth like a billionaire are systemic failures in this new Gilded Age of inequality."

I think in a sense we are saying the same like yeah her plans are good relative to anyone other than Bernie but they wouldn’t have gotten any coverage without the media intentionally propping warren up, so it’s not just the plans alone

 

[wtfyomom]

Relatively speaking, she represents a more progressive candidacy than any contender we've seen besides Bernie. I truly believe her plans would be transformative in a number of areas, though I do subscribe to Bernie being a better option by a decent margin. Warren would move us left though and she's well to the left of Democratic norms.

How much more would she get done than Obama in your opinion ? Because to me it’s much different getting CFPB passed when you’re not the one in charge , like to me the way she’s running her campaign down to the taking big money in the general is very Obama Esque, Obama had a super majority and got nothing but half measures and didn’t even try on certain issues , like I don’t believe warren is going to push for single payer and that’s my biggest issue other than climate change. Even her plan for climate change i envision being something like a carbon tax that targets the middle class and oh her green bombs, maybe not her “plan “ but what she gets done or rather what she tries her hardest to get done

 

[storyteller]

I think in a sense we are saying the same like yeah her plans are good relative to anyone other than Bernie but they wouldn’t have gotten any coverage without the media intentionally propping warren up, so it’s not just the plans alone

Oh I get what you mean now and agree. They used Warren to draw a direct contrast with Bernie and the by-product is they've magnified her platform in a way that they wouldn't have if not for the chance to swipe at Bernie. I think we're on the same page. I mentioned it a while back in the primary thread that I really believe the two of them have been helping each other in a way even while the media and supporters have kinda pit them as direct rivals. Bernie is taking the majority of the bullets and Warren's plans aren't getting potshotted which gives people a great chance to digest these left leaning ideas (and opens the door for Bernie to move even further left and push that Overton window).

 

[FAH1223]

How much more would she get done than Obama in your opinion ? Because to me it’s much different getting CFPB passed when you’re not the one in charge , like to me the way she’s running her campaign down to the taking big money in the general is very Obama Esque, Obama had a super majority and got nothing but half measures and didn’t even try on certain issues , like I don’t believe warren is going to push for single payer and that’s my biggest issue other than climate change. Even her plan for climate change i envision being something like a carbon tax that targets the middle class and oh her green bombs, maybe not her “plan “ but what she gets done or rather what she tries her hardest to get done

 

[wtfyomom]

But what do you actually think she will do not only what can she do ? Like I said Obama could’ve passed single payer technically with a super majority but it didn’t get done

 

[storyteller]

How much more would she get done than Obama in your opinion ? Because to me it’s much different getting CFPB passed when you’re not the one in charge , like to me the way she’s running her campaign down to the taking big money in the general is very Obama Esque, Obama had a super majority and got nothing but half measures and didn’t even try on certain issues , like I don’t believe warren is going to push for single payer and that’s my biggest issue other than climate change. Even her plan for climate change i envision being something like a carbon tax that targets the middle class and oh her green bombs, maybe not her “plan “ but what she gets done or rather what she tries her hardest to get done

I'm a lot less confident in her on Single Payer after the "Bernie has a framework" BS comment she just dropped. Climate change though, I think she's gonna be good riding Inslee's plan (her debate answers about using America's economy to push other nations to work on it too is a great sign imo). I also think David Dayen's interview on Majority Report and that article from him that @FAH1223 shared gives me some confidence she won't go the Obama route. Dayen said Warren and Sanders had the biggest impact on that article which means they've both taken time to do the homework on how to pass an agenda. That said, I trust Warren most on Anti-Corruption and Wall Street stuff...then Climate...then Healthcare improvement...and last Foreign Policy which I'm to the left of most people on I believe.

With Warren I'm hopeful she'll be really good. Confident she'll be good. With Bernie I'm confident in a more robust and dramatic positive change across the board though.

 

[FAH1223]

But what do you actually think she will do not only what can she do ? Like I said Obama could’ve passed single payer technically with a super majority but it didn’t get done

If you go back to 2008, Obama never specifically promised single payer and they could have passed it or a public option even if they killed the filibuster. I mean, they could have passed that + DREAM Act + Cap and Trade + etc

In terms of Warren, I think she and Bernie are on the same page for the most part on domestic policies. That series shows the VAST powers already in existence THROUGH STATUTE not executive orders that the next POTUS can use.

It is pretty incredible.

 

[wtfyomom]

If you go back to 2008, Obama never specifically promised single payer and they could have passed it or a public option even if they killed the filibuster. I mean, they could have passed that + DREAM Act + Cap and Trade + etc

In terms of Warren, I think she and Bernie are on the same page for the most part on domestic policies. That series shows the VAST powers already in existence THROUGH STATUTE not executive orders that the next POTUS can use.

It is pretty incredible.

Oh I’ll def read it just wanted to get your take

 

[storyteller]

If you go back to 2008, Obama never specifically promised single payer and they could have passed it or a public option even if they killed the filibuster. I mean, they could have passed that + DREAM Act + Cap and Trade + etc

In terms of Warren, I think she and Bernie are on the same page for the most part on domestic policies. That series shows the VAST powers already in existence THROUGH STATUTE not executive orders that the next POTUS can use.

It is pretty incredible.

Yep, the gap is in strategy and mainly falls to Means Testing vs Universal. Both have pros and cons but I fall on the Universal side being better, so I edge Bernie on the policies but they'll both move in the right direction for me. I was basically hopeless about electoral politics in 2015 and big on the "Draft Warren" movement. Now we've got Bernie and Warren both up top, I can't even express how much optimism that gives me. I thought we were at least 10 years away from this.

 

[FAH1223]

 

[FAH1223]

@King Kreole

 

[King Kreole]

@King Kreole

Yeah this something I'm super fascinated by. On the one hand, Liz is absolutely more likely to tap the CAP well to help fill her administration, but she has much stronger executive vision and experience than Bernie does, and it would allow her to provide heavier guardrails around potential fukkery from bad actors on staff. On the other hand, while Bernie is less likely to go to CAP (but as those 2nd and 3rd tweets point out, he'll definitely go to them as well), it's not like he has a robust alternative staffer farm he can pull from because his political coalition and brand is so anti-professional/academic that he hasn't built the relationships that Liz has.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

but she has much stronger executive vision and experience than Bernie does

By what measure are you determining that?

 

[King Kreole]

By what measure are you determining that?

Elizabeth Warren has just one plan

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Elizabeth Warren has just one plan

That tells me she'll do great as Treasury Director or CFB Director. Remember Bernie Sanders moved an entire base and therefore party to the left. Made socialism an acceptable word again. Made UHC/M4A and Federal Jobs Guarantee recognizable and talked about policies.The frontrunners in the Democratic party are pushing socialist policies. That's leadership. It's why Amy Klobachaur, Michael Bennett, Mayor Pete, O'Rourke, Harris, and Booker are flailing. The establishment is as terrified of Bernie as Wall Street is terrified of Warren.

They both exude leadership qualities just in different ways.