NSA Wiretapping and Snowden on the run

[kevm3]

lol all of this was planned a long time ago. Think they just magically built these systems out of the clear-blue one day? Sort of like how airports magically unveiled those body scanners the day after underwear man? Think that drones are able to be retrofitted with weapons is a mere coincidence? Active Denial System was a weapon used for afghanistan right? A big, heavy truck that shoots microwave beams meant to disperse a crowd was created for a rocky, mountainous terrain in which guerilla warfare was the norm? Nah, it was meant for American soil.

 

[Type Username Here]

It's no surprise to me that the Obama Administration is going after the whistleblowers. They have been the most vicious when it comes to whistleblower prosecution and intimidation. Examples:

Charges Against the N.S.A.’s Thomas Drake : The New Yorker
Obama Pursuing Leakers Sends Warning to Whistle-Blowers - Bloomberg
State Dept. contractor charged in leak to news organization
John Kiriakou, CIA Leaker, Pens Letter From Federal Prison
Former FBI employee sentenced for leaking classified papers
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/us/07indict.html?_r=0

We all know about Bradley Manning and we know that The US Government was readying charges against Assange:

Julian Assange's lawyers 'preparing for possible US charges' | Media | The Guardian

Until he coincidentally was charged with rape in Sweden around the same time for having consensual sex but not using a condom, an astronomical event that should make any person with an ounce of critical thinking to question the timing.

We also know, as I have sourced in this thread, that FISA and PATRIOT Act is being used in intimidation of journalists and in stomping out Occupy Wall Street protests.

If this was going in Putin's Russia or Chavez' Venezuela, which it was, no one would question that there is a very public effort to coerce the conversation into what benefits the status quo.

Miss me what that "national security nonsense" when we readily admit that we can't or won't prosecute the people responsible for nearly bringing the world economy to a halt. That's a matter of national security. Miss me with that "keeping us safe" nonsense when we are inching closer to the point where reversing the disastrous effects of climate change will be impossible, even though the scientific consensus is nearly fully conclusive.

All I hear is anecdotal evidence or the same neo-con bullshyt as if those things are logical and rational responses to properly sourced and legally sound arguments.

 

[Type Username Here]

The policy of what? What is he to blame for?

That the NSA is collecting, mining, comparing, and extrapolating data is not a scandal. This is the work of proactive criminal investigations and has always had a place in federal and local law enforcement. The FISA courts exist to counteract J. Edgar's abuses of power and provide an additional check, namely, to ensure that if a pattern is found which indicates a link to terrorism (or other illegal activity), the correct requisites are met in order to narrow the scope of the investigation to specific persons suspected of committing said crime.

There is no scandal here, the only difference between the NSA "dragnet" and previous wiretapping/data collection techniques is the scope, or rather, the ability to monitor a wider scope of data.

This becomes a scandal only when the programs are abused by the government or an individual actor. Until then, you're being led on by the media's faux outrage.

The co-author of FISA has an issue with what you said:

Sen. Biden On NSA Database - CBS News Video

"Harry, I don't have to listen to your phone call to know what you're doing."

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

The government got you nikkas dikk pics you sent to ****.

 

[ogc163]

lol all of this was planned a long time ago. Think they just magically built these systems out of the clear-blue one day? Sort of like how airports magically unveiled those body scanners the day after underwear man? Think that drones are able to be retrofitted with weapons is a mere coincidence? Active Denial System was a weapon used for afghanistan right? A big, heavy truck that shoots microwave beams meant to disperse a crowd was created for a rocky, mountainous terrain in which guerilla warfare was the norm? Nah, it was meant for American soil.

 

[Type Username Here]

 

[Swirv]

They couldn't do anything at the time because they did nothing illegal. Same like the other people I mentioned. James Holmes, was purchasing all kinds of materials on the Internet that would raise a red flag but it wasn't illegal.

Point taken but it proves that the tactics employed prevent nothing. They are just for monitoring. If they dont work they should be abandoned & stop the overreaching of citizens rights.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

What im saying is the data piling did nothing to stop the guys who tried setting off underwear and shoe explosives on the planes, citizens did.

 

[ogc163]

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I do not expect to see home again' | World news | guardian.co.uk

"The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change."

 

[No1]

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I do not expect to see home again' | World news | guardian.co.uk

"The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change."

Here's some of his responses

Edward Snowden was interviewed over several days in Hong Kong by Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill.

Q: Why did you decide to become a whistleblower?

A: "The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife's phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.

"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things … I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under."

Q: But isn't there a need for surveillance to try to reduce the chances of terrorist attacks such as Boston?

A: "We have to decide why terrorism is a new threat. There has always been terrorism. Boston was a criminal act. It was not about surveillance but good, old-fashioned police work. The police are very good at what they do."

Q: Do you see yourself as another Bradley Manning?

A: "Manning was a classic whistleblower. He was inspired by the public good."

Q: Do you think what you have done is a crime?

A: "We have seen enough criminality on the part of government. It is hypocritical to make this allegation against me. They have narrowed the public sphere of influence."

Q: What do you think is going to happen to you?

A: "Nothing good."

Q: Why Hong Kong?

A: "I think it is really tragic that an American has to move to a place that has a reputation for less freedom. Still, Hong Kong has a reputation for freedom in spite of the People's Republic of China. It has a strong tradition of free speech."

Q: What do the leaked documents reveal?

A: "That the NSA routinely lies in response to congressional inquiries about the scope of surveillance in America. I believe that when [senator Ron] Wyden and [senator Mark] Udall asked about the scale of this, they [the NSA] said it did not have the tools to provide an answer. We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinised most. We collect more digital communications from America than we do from the Russians."


Snowden is a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA
Q: What about the Obama administraton's protests about hacking by China?

A: "We hack everyone everywhere. We like to make a distinction between us and the others. But we are in almost every country in the world. We are not at war with these countries."

Q: Is it possible to put security in place to protect against state surveillance?

A: "You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying. We can plant bugs in machines. Once you go on the network, I can identify your machine. You will never be safe whatever protections you put in place."

Q: Does your family know you are planning this?

A: "No. My family does not know what is happening … My primary fear is that they will come after my family, my friends, my partner. Anyone I have a relationship with …

I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. I am not going to be able to communicate with them. They [the authorities] will act aggressively against anyone who has known me. That keeps me up at night."

Q: When did you decide to leak the documents?

A: "You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realise that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. It was a natural process.

"A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama's promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor."

Q: What is your reaction to Obama denouncing the leaks on Friday while welcoming a debate on the balance between security and openness?

A: "My immediate reaction was he was having difficulty in defending it himself. He was trying to defend the unjustifiable and he knew it."

Q: What about the response in general to the disclosures?

A: "I have been surprised and pleased to see the public has reacted so strongly in defence of these rights that are being suppressed in the name of security. It is not like Occupy Wall Street but there is a grassroots movement to take to the streets on July 4 in defence of the Fourth Amendment called Restore The Fourth Amendment and it grew out of Reddit. The response over the internet has been huge and supportive."

Q: Washington-based foreign affairs analyst Steve Clemons said he overheard at the capital's Dulles airport four men discussing an intelligence conference they had just attended. Speaking about the leaks, one of them said, according to Clemons, that both the reporter and leaker should be "disappeared". How do you feel about that?

In Dulles UAL lounge listening to 4 US intel officials saying loudly leaker & reporter on #NSA stuff should be disappearedrecorded a bit

— Steve Clemons (@SCClemons) June 8, 2013
A: "Someone responded to the story said 'real spies do not speak like that'. Well, I am a spy and that is how they talk. Whenever we had a debate in the office on how to handle crimes, they do not defend due process – they defend decisive action. They say it is better to kick someone out of a plane than let these people have a day in court. It is an authoritarian mindset in general."

Q: Do you have a plan in place?

A: "The only thing I can do is sit here and hope the Hong Kong government does not deport me … My predisposition is to seek asylum in a country with shared values. The nation that most encompasses this is Iceland. They stood up for people over internet freedom. I have no idea what my future is going to be.

"They could put out an Interpol note. But I don't think I have committed a crime outside the domain of the US. I think it will be clearly shown to be political in nature."

Q: Do you think you are probably going to end up in prison?

A: "I could not do this without accepting the risk of prison. You can't come up against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk. If they want to get you, over time they will."

Q: How to you feel now, almost a week after the first leak?

A: "I think the sense of outrage that has been expressed is justified. It has given me hope that, no matter what happens to me, the outcome will be positive for America. I do not expect to see home again, though that is what I want."

Video: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'


I can't say I fully agree with what he said about Boston (unless we find out how the FBI was tracking them originally in the first place, which I don't know if that's been disclosed), or how he defined foreign policy is such a basic way that everyone knows. "China can't be our enemy because it's not the people that have beef, it's the governments." That's pretty much how every conflict has happened in history breh. But otherwise, I agree with him that the public deserves a discussion on these things. The guy did a very brave thing

 

[MaccabeanRebel]

Here's some of his responses





Video: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'


I can't say I fully agree with what he said about Boston (unless we find out how the FBI was tracking them originally in the first place, which I don't know if that's been disclosed), or how he defined foreign policy is such a basic way that everyone knows. "China can't be our enemy because it's not the people that have beef, it's the governments." That's pretty much how every conflict has happened in history breh. But otherwise, I agree with him that the public deserves a discussion on these things. The guy did a very brave thing

Not really..the guy is an idiot. Leak a whole bunch of government secrets and then MOVE TO CHINA? What kind of stupid ish is that..so your scared of being monitored by the govt. and then move to a country which openly monitors AND sensors it's citizens?

Dude probably was getting paid by Chinese or Russians.

There's nothing admirable about him

 

[Just like bruddas]

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I do not expect to see home again' | World news | guardian.co.uk

"The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change."

I wouldnt have done shyt, just kept on with that huge salary.

 

[Broke Wave]

In what way does the 4th Amendment protect Americans now? Serious question, is there any validity left in the 4th Amendment? Stop and frisk to this shyt, this is crazy.

 

[flipn50]

 

[flipn50]

 

[Kid McNamara]

Here's some of his responses





Video: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'


I can't say I fully agree with what he said about Boston (unless we find out how the FBI was tracking them originally in the first place, which I don't know if that's been disclosed), or how he defined foreign policy is such a basic way that everyone knows. "China can't be our enemy because it's not the people that have beef, it's the governments." That's pretty much how every conflict has happened in history breh. But otherwise, I agree with him that the public deserves a discussion on these things. The guy did a very brave thing

The public deserves a discussion on what things? I strongly disagree with this notion. There should be civilian oversight on the FISA process, but what other aspects of data collection and interception should the public get to decide on?

This is not how law enforcement and proactive investigations work dear friend. Nor should it be.