NOI brehs and former brehs, can you explain the climate after Elijah Muhammad died?

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

So what’s the main difference between the mosques and teaching in the NOI back then compared to the Arab mosques in fundamental Islam of the time

Where African Americans segregated or discriminated against by the Arabs to the point they couldn’t join a regular mosque before NOI existed? Or were there even any mosques close enough to black communities back that they could even have the option?

not as different a sit was teach back in the 50's, 60's and even under the farrakhan leadership in the 80's..
nowadays the NATION practise ramadan, jummah prayers, quranic lessons etc..

but orthodox mosques are worshipped and used how it has been in the original lands of al islam.

the early days, the nation of islam had TEMPLES..muslim temple, where they usually held lectures, fundraising and meetings. Praying sessions were held but the prayer rituals were not like the sunni/othodoxy tradition..this all changed when the ahmadiyah got my intergral with elijah etc..they start teaching the followers how to pray and submit in the traditional islam but this was ahmadiyah, a pakistani sect.

this is also why plenty of the nation followers had pakistani/persian names not just arabic..

Elijah was called Gullam before Muhammad.

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

there is a story that happened in detroit that was told by farrakhan and the elders..it centred around a young elijah and his master teacher aka fard muhammad.
the locals at the moorish temple did not like elijah and wd fard because they were precahing their version of the nation ie their doctrine..wallace fard was spitting his knowledge and some of the moors felt like he was trying to take over noble drew ali's foundation..this lead to few of the moor's putting a beat down on wallace..wallace took it like a man and left detroit but only to return later with LESSONS for the young Elijah to study and master..

 

[DoubleClutch]

I wonder why hasn’t a movie been made about the Nation of Islam. Seems like an interesting topic and pivotal moment in black American history from its beginning to Farrakhan

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Ok I didn’t know he was taught under Drew Ali. I thought he was the originator But still, he is credited with being integral in the creation of NOI and his influence is greater

Elijah is the one who took it to new heights

I just see the black people back then as being real gullible if this guy with no background or credibility who might’ve looked black but probably culturally was different and had to have an accent or something if he wasn’t raised in a black family just popped up claiming to have the answers to all African Americans problems

Maybe he was able to get away with it better because he was “different” in a sense so they looked up to him

There were many people like him back in the day with huge followings


https://www.thecoli.com/threads/black-aa-spiritualist-churches-and-temples.676725/

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Where African Americans segregated or discriminated against by the Arabs to the point they couldn’t join a regular mosque before NOI existed? Or were there even any mosques close enough to black communities back that they could even have the option?

african americans did have some close ties to south asian muslims

On February 15th we Ahmadi Muslims will celebrate our centennial as the oldest Islamic organization in America, and not just esthetically but with self renovation, prayer, fasting, charity, outreach, and community services. It was Hazrat Dr. Mufti Muhammad Sadiq, may Allah be pleased with him, who arrived in Philidelphia as the first Muslim Missionary in America and swiftly established the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community as well as America's longest running Islamic periodical, the Moslem Sunrise under the auspices of Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad, May Allah be pleased with him, 2nd Caliph of Messiah Ahmad and the Promised Reformer. Sadiq came to win hearts towards Islam as the best solution to societal ills. Sadiq awakened Americans to the lasting revolutions brought about by the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, who was sent as a mercy to all people for all times, and to announce the advent of the global Messiah, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, peace be upon him, of whom Sadiq was a prominent disciple. When racial discrimination against Blacks, Indians, Asians, and other "darker races" rocked the nation, reminiscent of today, Sadiq practiced and preached the needed Islamic principle of universal siblinghood. Mosques never separated people based on race or social class. In fact, when segregation based on color was the norm and the colored had to take the back seat in America's public, our African American Ahmadi Muslims blessed the front rows of our Mosques and were the foremost Muezzins or callers to prayers as well as Chapter Presidents throughout the nation. Sadiq revealed to Black Americans that Islam was the religion of their forefathers before slavery. African Americans were not only the earliest converts and pioneers, but the majority of our community. Not only did our Ahmadi Muslim predecessors influence and contribute to the civil rights movement but our efforts to actualize racial equity and equality predated it. "Love for all, hatred for none" is the culture my Ahmadiyya Muslim Community gifted the United States one century ago this month.

100 Years of "Love for all, hatred for none" in America

 

[DoubleClutch]

Elijah is the one who took it to new heights




There were many people like him back in the day with huge followings


https://www.thecoli.com/threads/black-aa-spiritualist-churches-and-temples.676725/

This Spiritualism stuff is actually pretty interesting I’ll have to check out this thread and the links later

Seems like it’s a development from the southern church and traditions from slavery times, somehow made its way to Detroit (something special about Detroit I guess) and took a new life

but I can see now the similarities between the religious movements that were popping up at the time

Still doesn’t explain Fard being the only non black leader involved in those movements who directly sought out black people and their communities versus his own for example

 

[motion order]

Let's see how much longer this "Nation of Islam" thread goes before someone posts an actual quote from Elijah Muhammad.

 

[get these nets]

Let's see how much longer this "Nation of Islam" thread goes before someone posts an actual quote from Elijah Muhammad.

Not sure if you are posting just to post.
We put up 2 different chapters of a book about Islam in Black America. One about Wallace and one about Elijah Muhammad. Quotes from both men are in those chapters.

 

[get these nets]

full book

 

[motion order]

Not sure if you are posting just to post.

No, that's what you're doing

• The NOI it existed in isolation , and away from outside scrutiny until they got media coverage during Malcolm's time.

Children of its members attended classes at the newly created Muhammad University of Islam, but this soon led to challenges by board of education in Detroit and Chicago, which considered the children truants from the public school system. The controversy led to the jailing of several University of Islam board members and Elijah Muhammad in 1934 and to violent confrontations with police. Muhammad was put on probation, but the university remained open.

On May 8, 1942, Elijah Muhammad was arrested for failure to register for the draft during World War II. Muhammad was charged with eight counts of sedition for instructing his followers not to register for the draft or serve in the armed forces. Found guilty, Elijah Muhammad served four years, from 1942 to 1946, at the Federal Correctional Institute in Milan Michigan.

I guess the local police and board of education and the Federal Government is not "outside scrutiny."

The Nation of Islam was not "isolated" from the Black media, particularly the independent Black newspapers. The Nation of Islam didn't need Malcolm X grandstanding to the white media to get their word out to the intended audience.

 

[get these nets]

No, that's what you're doing

Children of its members attended classes at the newly created Muhammad University of Islam, but this soon led to challenges by board of education in Detroit and Chicago, which considered the children truants from the public school system. The controversy led to the jailing of several University of Islam board members and Elijah Muhammad in 1934 and to violent confrontations with police. Muhammad was put on probation, but the university remained open.

On May 8, 1942, Elijah Muhammad was arrested for failure to register for the draft during World War II. Muhammad was charged with eight counts of sedition for instructing his followers not to register for the draft or serve in the armed forces. Found guilty, Elijah Muhammad served four years, from 1942 to 1946, at the Federal Correctional Institute in Milan Michigan.

I guess the local police and board of education and the Federal Government is not "outside scrutiny."

The Nation of Islam was not "isolated" from the Black media, particularly the independent Black newspapers. The Nation of Islam didn't need Malcolm X grandstanding to the white media to get their word out to the intended audience.

Yet you avoided that I refuted/debunked your claim that an Elijah Muhammad quote hadn't been posted in this thread.
Just admit that you were wrong.


The topic was about the NOI and Orthodox Islam in America. I said Orthodox Islamic organizations in America became aware of the existence and doctrine of the NOI after mainstream media covered them. The conflict/tension between organizing body of Islam in America and the NOI happened after they became aware of how NOI teachings contradicted what orthodox Islam taught.

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

I wonder why hasn’t a movie been made about the Nation of Islam. Seems like an interesting topic and pivotal moment in black American history from its beginning to Farrakhan

there have been several attempts including a big budget but the content would have been an insult to the current leadership of the nation..

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

This Spiritualism stuff is actually pretty interesting I’ll have to check out this thread and the links later

Seems like it’s a development from the southern church and traditions from slavery times, somehow made its way to Detroit (something special about Detroit I guess) and took a new life

but I can see now the similarities between the religious movements that were popping up at the time

Still doesn’t explain Fard being the only non black leader involved in those movements who directly sought out black people and their communities versus his own for example

he wasn't actual a leader face value, he met with elijah privately and taught him stuff and gave him instruction show to build the NOI..his first temple.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Still doesn’t explain Fard being the only non black leader involved in those movements who directly sought out black people and their communities versus his own for example

perfect storm....

1. Detroit was a hot bed at that time for Islamic/Eastern influences

2. He soaked up the lessons of Noble Drew Ali and it gave some weight with many of the blacks that would later follow him

3. He gave an origin story that he was of african descent + middle eastern (again, nothing about his features would have made "black" people see him as non-black, as long as he was of african descent via 1 drop rule....and he told them he was african descent)

according to elijah, Fard said he was african descent

.
.
.

and I said earlier, non-white immigrants, especially ones who were darker/non-east-asian, could blend/travel into afroamerican circles easier + non-white immigrants could understand the struggle of african americans trying to fight against white supremacy

 

[motion order]

Yet you avoided that I refuted/debunked your claim that an Elijah Muhammad quote hadn't been posted in this thread.
Just admit that you were wrong.

You're more interested in being technically right, than disseminating Elijah Muhammad's perspective, even to the bare minimum, with respect to the Nation of Islam's history. Certain people frequent these Nation of Islam threads quoting everything except the main source.

The topic was about the NOI and Orthodox Islam in America.

No, actually the post you responded to was asking for some history and background on Wallace Fard Muhammad. Elijah Muhammad answers these questions, extensively. A couple of sentences here and there from Mr. Muhamnad, quoted from this third party, is absolutely insufficient when there is literally a book entitled: "The True History of Master Fard Muhammad." By Elijah Muhammad.

But none of that matters because you debunked my claim.

For the most part, there's two ways to look at Wallace Fard Muhammad's history; either from what Elijah Muhammad said of it, or from what J. Edgar Hoover said of it.

The conflict/tension between organizing body of Islam in America and the NOI happened after they became aware of how NOI teachings contradicted what orthodox Islam taught.

The Nation of Islam did it's thing, those other Muslims did their thing. Elijah's conflict/tension was with the U.S. government. But I know, the "conflict with other Muslims" is a better narrative to use to diminish the NOI's historical efficacy.