“Nobody feared LeBron. I’ve heard people say including myself that they feared Michael Jeffrey Jordan” Shaq

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

A team three years removed from winning a championship is closer to its peak than a team that was the defending champs?

In terms of quality of play yeah the 2006-07 pistons were closer if not better than the 2003-04 squad was. They just had the misfortune of the East getting better. The 1990-91 pistons were washed up. They got off to a hot start and then ran out of gas halfway through the year. They won 10 in a row early to get off to a 13-2 start, then lost 7 of their next 8 before taking 18 of the next 22 to get to 33-13 but hit the wall after that. Games 55-59 was a 5 game losing streak. In games 60-69 they alternated wins and losses every game. Then they went just 8-5 over their final 13 games. 23 wins and 21 losses over their final 44 games going into the playoffs. Barely over .500 for more than half the season and it’s not like they got hot going into the playoffs either. They ran out of gas early and limped their way in.

It didn’t get better in the playoffs either. They were up and down against the hawks and got pushed by an old Celtics team missing Larry Bird for one game and with him averaging less than 14 points on under 40% shooting in the other 5 games, only taking the final 3 games by 7, 5, and 4 points. Their 2 losses that series were by 6 and by 33 points by the way. They were at the end of their run. That core team never won another playoff series after that.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Players keep saying shyt like this when there’s video of people moving out of Lebrons way so he can do whatever he wanted. It’s not adding up.

You can’t be this dumb...

Yeah you stand there and try & take a charge from a 6'8" 250lb freight train.

 

[Mindfield333]

Sounds like they feared Phil Jackson. I don’t hear about Wizards MJ like that. Even though him and current Lebron like the same age just about

 

[Professor Emeritus]

A team three years removed from winning a championship is closer to its peak than a team that was the defending champs?

A healthy squad coming off their most wins ever in a season (2006) and still good enough to make the ECF the next two years is playing closer to their peak than a team mostly comprised of injured or washed players that never even won another playoff series.

Y'all expect people here to be straight stupid.

 

[Mars]

And Kobe still has 5 rings to Lebrons 4, and there's an argument to be made for 3, because most people don't feel he wins that last ring if not for covid and the bubble.

Regardless, Kobe has more rings than Lebron. Lebron doesn't win another ring before retirement unless he does some serious team hopping within the next couple of years.

So I say all that to say.... what is your point??

My point is that Kobe being the greatest of all time is a bit of a reach.

 

[Po pimp]

A healthy squad coming off their most wins ever in a season (2006) and still good enough to make the ECF the next two years is playing closer to their peak than a team mostly comprised of injured or washed players that never even won another playoff series.

Y'all expect people here to be straight stupid.

That 07 team was literally missing its heart and soul (Ben Wallace).

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

My point is that Kobe being the greatest of all time is a bit of a reach.

Second to MJ

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I think what people are getting at is that at its core the fear that people had for Kobe/Jordan was more organic because it was about them using sheer will and determination and killer instinct in their rise to the top. LeBron on the other hand had always felt like a social engineering project as a means of pivoting away from Kobe post Colorado as the next face of the league and Jordan’s heir. More ticky tack fouls were called and it gradually became less about your bag and your will to kill and more about if you were a part of the NBA’s marketing efforts. I think had Bron won in Cleveland first it would’ve went a long way. Bron’s “bulldoze through nikkaz” offense and hopping on Wade’s team to win has permanently stained Bron for many fans.

With that said, I feel bad from Bron because now he can’t be appreciated for the great player he is because too many people still sense that stench of his being overly pushed by the league as the guy to root for. I honestly hope and wish that the league goes away from this “Next Jordan” bullshyt once and for all.

Thanks to that shyt, nearly 30 years of NBA discourse has devolved into Stan wars which has made it where one all time great is having his legacy erased while the other is being made to be hated by a growing contingent of NBA fans all while the same GOAT exists today and has to continuously be brought up because the sport refuses to move the fukk on.

 

[NYC Rebel]

I think what people are getting at is that at its core the fear that people had for Kobe/Jordan was more organic because it was about them using sheer will and determination and killer instinct in their rise to the top. LeBron on the other hand had always felt like a social engineering project as a means of pivoting away from Kobe post Colorado as the next face of the league and Jordan’s heir. More ticky tack fouls were called and it gradually became less about your bag and your will to kill and more about if you were a part of the NBA’s marketing efforts. I think had Bron won in Cleveland first it would’ve went a long way. Bron’s “bulldoze through nikkaz” offense and hopping on Wade’s team to win has permanently stained Bron for many fans.

With that said, I feel bad from Bron because now he can’t be appreciated for the great player he is because too many people still sense that stench of his being overly pushed by the league as the guy to root for. I honestly hope and wish that the league goes away from this “Next Jordan” bullshyt once and for all.

Thanks to that shyt, nearly 30 years of NBA discourse has devolved into Stan wars which has made it where one all time great is having his legacy erased while the other is being made to be hated by a growing contingent of NBA fans all while the same GOAT exists today and has to continuously be brought up because the sport refuses to move the fukk on.

No one was winning their first on the first iteration of the Cavs he played with. I never understood why it's used as a slight against him.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

I think what people are getting at is that at its core the fear that people had for Kobe/Jordan was more organic because it was about them using sheer will and determination and killer instinct in their rise to the top. LeBron on the other hand had always felt like a social engineering project as a means of pivoting away from Kobe post Colorado as the next face of the league and Jordan’s heir. More ticky tack fouls were called and it gradually became less about your bag and your will to kill and more about if you were a part of the NBA’s marketing efforts. I think had Bron won in Cleveland first it would’ve went a long way. Bron’s “bulldoze through nikkaz” offense and hopping on Wade’s team to win has permanently stained Bron for many fans.

Bro this is exactly what I was thinking and trying to figure out how to put it into words but you said it better than I could have!

Colorado is when the NBA pivoted away from Kobe being the heir apparent. Think of it like Chris Brown in terms of talent. Both got into bad situations and lost their mainstream appeal (even when Kobe passed, them fools tried to bring up Colorado). But they are both so talented that they can't be completely ignored even though mainstream would have liked to completely ignore them.

Actually Chris could have took some lessons from Kobe and his career would have rebounded the same way Kobes did. Keep your head down and just work on your craft. Stay out of trouble and let your talent and hard work speak for itself and prove the naysayers wrong. But that's a whole different topic.

My point is that I agree about Kobe losing that mainstream appeal once Colorado happening and the NBA needed a new face and so they went with Bron, which probably would have eventually happened anyway but they needed it sooner than they would have due to the Colorado stuff. I would love to see some NBA players speak about THAT on their podcasts.

 

[10bandz]

Bro this is exactly what I was thinking and trying to figure out how to put it into words but you said it better than I could have!

Colorado is when the NBA pivoted away from Kobe being the heir apparent. Think of it like Chris Brown in terms of talent. Both got into bad situations and lost their mainstream appeal (even when Kobe passed, them fools tried to bring up Colorado). But they are both so talented that they can't be completely ignored even though mainstream would have liked to completely ignore them.

Actually Chris could have took some lessons from Kobe and his career would have rebounded the same way Kobes did. Keep your head down and just work on your craft. Stay out of trouble and let your talent and hard work speak for itself and prove the naysayers wrong. But that's a whole different topic.

My point is that I agree about Kobe losing that mainstream appeal once Colorado happening and the NBA needed a new face and so they went with Bron, which probably would have eventually happened anyway but they needed it sooner than they would have due to the Colorado stuff. I would love to see some NBA players speak about THAT on their podcasts.

Kobe’s appeal came back when he scored 81 and by the 08 MVP he was pretty much back. Nike held him down and starting pushing him after a few years. The LeGBT contingent was already established by then though. John Hollinger, Henry Abbott, etc on ESPN.com which led to the stat geeks and forum nerds we see today.

 

[10bandz]

I think what people are getting at is that at its core the fear that people had for Kobe/Jordan was more organic because it was about them using sheer will and determination and killer instinct in their rise to the top. LeBron on the other hand had always felt like a social engineering project as a means of pivoting away from Kobe post Colorado as the next face of the league and Jordan’s heir. More ticky tack fouls were called and it gradually became less about your bag and your will to kill and more about if you were a part of the NBA’s marketing efforts. I think had Bron won in Cleveland first it would’ve went a long way. Bron’s “bulldoze through nikkaz” offense and hopping on Wade’s team to win has permanently stained Bron for many fans.

With that said, I feel bad from Bron because now he can’t be appreciated for the great player he is because too many people still sense that stench of his being overly pushed by the league as the guy to root for. I honestly hope and wish that the league goes away from this “Next Jordan” bullshyt once and for all.

Thanks to that shyt, nearly 30 years of NBA discourse has devolved into Stan wars which has made it where one all time great is having his legacy erased while the other is being made to be hated by a growing contingent of NBA fans all while the same GOAT exists today and has to continuously be brought up because the sport refuses to move the fukk on.

You can feel bad for Bron but he doesn’t help himself. He just tried to force feed his son down our throats to set up some father and son duo narrative shyt. It’s all pre planned, they got media members who participate and it stinks like hell.

 

[Ghostface Trillah]

You can’t be this dumb...

Yeah you stand there and try & take a charge from a 6'8" 250lb freight train.

You’re trying to justify people being afraid of Lebron in a thread about how nobody is afraid of Lebron and you think I’m the dumb one?

Your teachers failed you.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

You can feel bad for Bron but he doesn’t help himself. He just tried to force feed his son down our throats to set up some father and son duo narrative shyt. It’s all pre planned, they got media members who participate and it stinks like hell.

I feel you but breh I remember when I first heard about Bron and I was a freshman in high school. I can’t imagine a young Black man from a single parent home being told by wealthy white men that they’ll hand him the world before he’s even matured fully. Not to say he didn’t feed into it but between that and fabricating an adversarial dynamic between himself and another Black man as a selling point to fans I tend to feel bad for Bron because he didn’t get an honest shake to do things more organically. shyt is sad to me because it’s 21 years later and it feels like he’s still seeking validation when it shouldn’t be the case.

I can even recall how Wade let himself get drawn into that dumb shyt when Shaq came around. I’m just saying, it’s rather convenient how in the NBA there’s a more concerted effort to engineer legacies and create animosity in the discourse of the sports that’s got the most visible Black representation. As Bron’s career winds down that shyt becomes more glaring to me.

No one was winning their first on the first iteration of the Cavs he played with. I never understood why it's used as a slight against him.

I get that breh, but the perception towards him shifted for the worst. If we being fair, KG is the one that started this and he was fairly justified because of how the Wolves had failed to build around him. But in comparison to Jordan and Kobe and even Duncan who all stayed and won with their squads it’s a slight on Bron. Had KD not done something far more lowly it would probably be brought up more.

 

[fifth column]

I think what people are getting at is that at its core the fear that people had for Kobe/Jordan was more organic because it was about them using sheer will and determination and killer instinct in their rise to the top. LeBron on the other hand had always felt like a social engineering project as a means of pivoting away from Kobe post Colorado as the next face of the league and Jordan’s heir. More ticky tack fouls were called and it gradually became less about your bag and your will to kill and more about if you were a part of the NBA’s marketing efforts. I think had Bron won in Cleveland first it would’ve went a long way. Bron’s “bulldoze through nikkaz” offense and hopping on Wade’s team to win has permanently stained Bron for many fans.

With that said, I feel bad from Bron because now he can’t be appreciated for the great player he is because too many people still sense that stench of his being overly pushed by the league as the guy to root for. I honestly hope and wish that the league goes away from this “Next Jordan” bullshyt once and for all.

Thanks to that shyt, nearly 30 years of NBA discourse has devolved into Stan wars which has made it where one all time great is having his legacy erased while the other is being made to be hated by a growing contingent of NBA fans all while the same GOAT exists today and has to continuously be brought up because the sport refuses to move the fukk on.

I think the “next Jordan” means people want that competitive spirit back in the league. I love Kobe cause he really went after it. That only friends shyt that Lebron pioneered ain’t it.