New York Times: New Harvard study shows police kill white and black suspects at the exact same rates

[ogc163]

Cat's deadass calling Fryer a c00n.

 

[blackzeus]

Gotta love pencil pushers. 9 times out of 10 the white dude getting shot is a hardened criminal, and 9 times out of 10 the black dude getting shot is not.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

Half of arrestees by St. Anthony police in 2016 are black
MINNEAPOLIS — Police in the suburban St. Paul area where a black man was shot and killed during a traffic stop have disproportionately arrested African-Americans, according to an analysis of data provided by the department that shows nearly half of the people arrested this year in the heavily white community were black.
Just 7 percent of residents are black in St. Anthony and neighboring Lauderdale and Falcon Heights, according to census data. The St. Anthony police data shows that nearly half of all arrests made by St. Anthony officers were of African-Americans in 2016. And despite a small increase in the area's African-American population since 2010, the percentage of the department's black arrestees has increased steadily since 2011, when a third of the people it arrested were black.

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"The numbers are shocking and certainly raise some very serious concerns," said Glenda Hatchett, the attorney for Castile's family who has vowed to file a lawsuit in his death.

All told, roughly 38 percent of the people arrested by the St. Anthony Police Department since 2011 have been black.

"That is consistent with a pattern of profiling," said Myron Orfield, who helped conduct a study for the Minnesota Legislature on racial profiling.

St. Anthony Police Chief Jon Mangseth was not immediately available to respond to a request for comment. A message seeking comment from the community's mayor, Jerry Faust, was not immediately returned.

The St. Anthony Police Department did not participate in the 2003 study for the Legislature, although 65 other law enforcement jurisdictions did. The study found a strong likelihood that racial bias played a role in traffic stop practices statewide. The pattern was more pronounced in suburban areas.

More data from St. Anthony on police searches and how often contraband is found in searches would paint a fuller picture, said Orfield, who's with the Institute on Metropolitan Opportunity at the University of Minnesota Law School in Minneapolis.

The St. Anthony data does not give details about individual arrests, nor show when an arrestee was also issued a citation. The department's annual reports show the vast majority of its arrests stem from traffic-related offenses.

St. Anthony, north of St. Paul, serves the small communities of Falcon Heights and Lauderdale. The area mirrors the demographics of the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area as a whole, which was about 7 percent black in 2014, according to the latest American Community Survey data from the U.S. Census Bureau.

St. Anthony figures for police-issued citations are closer to the demographics of neighboring communities. Twelve percent of its citations issued since 2011 have been to blacks.

It makes a shocking headline but its far from reality...i looked into it and its a very small community with an unusually large number of one star hotels in its proximity and on the intersection of 3 major interstate arteries ...that are well known drug routes

It sounds like there IS profiling but its mostly for cars with out of state licence plates

 

[tmonster]

It makes a shocking headline but its far from reality.

It makes a shocking post but its far from reality.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

It makes a shocking post but its far from reality.

Glad you agree then....looking at your posts in this thread which are mostly irrelevant to the subject, loaded with emotion and very little fact i was getting the impression that basic statistical analysis is beyond you.

 

[tmonster]

Glad you agree then

Thanks for agreeing with me

 

[Prodyson]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-the-data-says.html?_r=0



Youre making the same mistake the other guy did...Mindlessly transposing US population census data onto police activity...

Thats like taking data from every racehorse in the world to explain the kentucky derby..you have to focus your calculations on reality..like the horses in kentucky.

the census data doesnt account for things like age..most of the white population is old..old people have near zero risk of being killed or arrested..things like gender,,women have lower risks as well...distribution..people in rural areas and suburbs have low risk


There are more police interactions per person in poorer mostly Black neighbourhoods than in suburbs or rural areas for many reasons
-Higher crime rates
-The war on drugs
-Broken windows policing

So if a black person is 3-5 times more likely to actually encounter a cop than a white person then the stuff you copied and pasted is meaningless.....right?

To be honest... your thought process has some of the same flaws you're pointing out in his.

Furthermore, some of items you've listed could actually support his argument. For instance, the war on drugs is widely perceived to be a targeted attack on black communities... hence black people have increased encounters with police officers by design. Which is the reason black people are killed disproportionately. You are essentially saying, "yean maybe black people are killed or harmed at higher rates than whites, but that's only because the have increased encounters"

Well yea... that's the point. You just don't seem to think the two are related, whereas others recognize a correlation. And the same point that you're arguing is specifically pointed to as a flaw in the response article that someone posted. You and the article writer are trying to narrow the scope of the overreaching argument regarding targeting blacks. Sure... once apprehended by police the rates may be the same. But we're arguing a more systemic issue. The only real conclusion you can come to based on that guy's research is that maybe this issue has less to do with individual racism of police officers and more to do with deep rooted systemic racism and prejudice. But even that isn't completely proven because he did in fact see higher rates of non-lethal force used against blacks.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

To be honest... your thought process has some of the same flaws you're pointing out in his.

How so? Clearly the poster i was referring to was in error making the data fit his assumptions

Furthermore, some of items you've listed could actually support his argument.

The crux of his argument is that the rate of deaths by police SHOULD match the demographic profile collected by the census bureau..In a nation as varied as this with all the different ages social classes ,population densities and balkanization that is a ridiculous notion

For instance, the war on drugs is widely perceived to be a targeted attack on black communities... hence black people have increased encounters with police officers by design. Which is the reason black people are killed disproportionately. You are essentially saying, "yean maybe black people are killed or harmed at higher rates than whites, but that's only because the have increased encounters"

Which is a factor that i brought up as well...so

Well yea... that's the point. You just don't seem to think the two are related, whereas others recognize a correlation

.
False..if i didnt see the correlation i wouldnt have pointed it out..I clearly stated Black people are far more likely to encounter police,to be arrested and handled more severely.

BUT the issue in the OP is whether race is a factor when the decision is made to fire that fatal shot..the data doesn't support that assertion.

And the same point that you're arguing is specifically pointed to as a flaw in the response article that someone posted. You and the article writer are trying to narrow the scope of the overreaching argument regarding targeting blacks. Sure... once apprehended by police the rates may be the same. But we're arguing a more systemic issue.

When i see words like systemic i get the impression we are leaving the world of Facts and logic because invoking the words "systemic"means that youre dealing with something organised,pervasive yet oddly nebulous because no one can prove or define it.
There IS proven institutionalized racism in things like sentencing guidelines and the lousy schools to prison pipeline but the idea that disparate independently managed police departments are conspiring against Black people is beyond fiction.

The only real conclusion you can come to based on that guy's research is that maybe this issue has less to do with individual racism of police officers and more to do with deep rooted systemic racism and prejudice. But even that isn't completely proven because he did in fact see higher rates of non-lethal force used against blacks.

I have to disagree with you there and propose that its mostly individual...it has more to do with anticipated costs and consequences to the officer based on his perception of the victim of his brutality's social class and standing.. a finding almost echoed in this study.
I doubt even the most racist cop would pull over and rodney king an expensively dressed well spoken black man driving a vehicle that is worth 2 years of his salary...but take the same man and put him in a dusty outfit driving a hooptie talking street slang and the outcome will be very different...
This isnt a simple race issue..its a class issue with strong racial overtones...thats just my opinion though....i dont have the research grant to quantify it.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

Cat's deadass calling Fryer a c00n.

The reason why people are doing this is because articles like these help white supremacy in this country. Not everyone has the intellectual depth to read this article and see that the statistical approach as well as the claims are skewed.

And then what? When we point out that the system is flawed and needs CORRECTION (not abandonment) they will use articles like these to prop up their arguments that the system is fine when it is clearly and has never ever been fine or fair.

EVER. PERIOD.

You or I might know for example, that "black on black crime" is a lazy and intellectually fraudulent response to the issues of systemic racism in this country but not only is it still used on the news, in newspapers, and by political leaders in this country but it was retweeted by the current presidential nominee of a major political party in this country. It's literally become something that's commonly said even by BLACK people who lack awareness regarding crime stats in this country.

So he may not be a c00n...but he should have the self-awareness to know that it is dangerous to put an article like this out there to the public.

It's irresponsible. And when a grown person does irresponsible things it's either because they don't know better or they don't care.

A c00n is someone who is aware that his actions or mindset is detrimental to the advancement towards equality for black people but performs these actions or thinks these thoughts regardless.

 

[ogc163]

The reason why people are doing this is because articles like these help white supremacy in this country. Not everyone has the intellectual depth to read this article and see that the statistical approach as well as the claims are skewed.

And then what? When we point out that the system is flawed and needs CORRECTION (not abandonment) they will use articles like these to prop up their arguments that the system is fine when it is clearly and has never ever been fine or fair.

EVER. PERIOD.

You or I might know for example, that "black on black crime" is a lazy and intellectually fraudulent response to the issues of systemic racism in this country but not only is it still used on the news, in newspapers, and by political leaders in this country but it was retweeted by the current presidential nominee of a major political party in this country. It's literally become something that's commonly said even by BLACK people who lack awareness regarding crime stats in this country.

So he may not be a c00n...but he should have the self-awareness to know that it is dangerous to put an article like this out there to the public.

It's irresponsible. And when a grown person does irresponsible things it's either because they don't know better or they don't care.

A c00n is someone who is aware that his actions or mindset is detrimental to the advancement towards equality for black people but performs these actions or thinks these thoughts regardless.

From what I have seen and read Fryer has admitted the limitations of his work, and what should and shouldn't be gleaned from it. In terms of it being "dangerous" again he has stated that he went in expecting one thing and getting the opposite result, at the conclusion of his study I don't think it is fair, reasonable, or practical to expect him to suppress his results as a result of them likely being used by irresponsible/disingenuous//hyperbolic politicians and individuals. That is not a burden I would like put on any academic, regardless of the subject matter.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

From what I have seen and read Fryer has admitted the limitations of his work, and what should and shouldn't be gleaned from it. In terms of it being "dangerous" again he has stated that he went in expecting one thing and getting the opposite result, at the conclusion of his study I don't think it is fair, reasonable, or practical to expect him to suppress his results as a result of them likely being used by irresponsible/disingenuous//hyperbolic politicians and individuals. That is not a burden I would like put on any academic, regardless of the subject matter.

That's dangerous as fukk and a large part of the reason many white people viewed Blacks and other minorities as inferior in times past in this country.

Because the "science" and "studies" supported it.

It's irresponsible.

 

[ogc163]

That's dangerous as fukk and a large part of the reason many white people viewed Blacks and other minorities as inferior in times past in this country.

Because the "science" and "studies" supported it.

It's irresponsible.

And the science was debunked and discredited. There are already articles going against Fryer's conclusions, if his methodology is flawed and without basis then there won't be a shortage of academics racing to expose it.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

And the science was debunked and discredited. There are already articles going against Fryer's conclusions, if his methodology is flawed and without basis then there won't be a shortage of academics racing to expose it.

Before or after the damage was done?