My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

[Malta]

Teams have started doubling KP with or without Melo; Melo was affording him some extra space for one on ones early, but it's shifted somewhat. So Melo's been less of a boost to dude for sure. I don't see KP being held back by Melo though, stars become stars. I can't really think of any players where I was like "man...he'd be better faster if not for that teammate" but I can think of guys where I thought "he'd have a bigger impact with higher usage (James Harden, Joe Johnson, Harrison Barnes somewhat). Thing is, like I've said before, I just don't think he's shown the mentality lately that would make him comparable to other young cats who attack, attack, attack. When he gets back, assuming fresh legs, I hope he'll look like he did earlier in the season with or without Melo. It didn't matter that Melo was getting his, KP was getting plenty of looks too. Lately, he's settling and at times not demanding the rock. I think it's just been fatigue though.

Not having a gang of veterans around him would make him more aggressive, there's a reason why teams purge their squads of older players when they get young stars and only look to add veterans later on to add stability after the young player has established themselves. If he were out there demanding the rock and taking shots from Melo, how do you think that would be received? He's a PnR type of player, that plays with a scoring PG & scoring wing, he gets the ball but it's not always in the best position and it's not like the Knicks make it easy for him, where are the cuts? Why not use him more as a passer, he seems to be a very good one but that's not how he's used. He's almost exclusively used as a Pick and Pop guy. Playing him at Center will probably improve his offense as there are less 5s that can check him, where as PF's are becoming more mobile.

Getting KP a PG that can set him up in advantageous situations is absolutely the next step. Getting into a spot to draft one of the PG prospects is definitely the easiest way to that end. Looking at the FA list, there's CP3 whose a great playmaker but off the timeline to work with KP long. Then there are a few good/decent all around PG's that aren't really stud playmakers (I'm a big fan of George Hill but he can't stay healthy lately and he's not a playmaker; Jrue and Teague I mean...not exciting names but passable). Those cats are nice pick ups for the right contract but not really long term keys.

Breh, you can't rely on the FA market anymore, the new CBA is going to limit player movement a lot. The only way the Knicks can get a good PG is via the draft, or a really smart trade for a young guy who is stuck on the bench behind someone.

 

[Frump]

No, he doesn't.


Please list all the current stars that needed some aging star around them to show them how it's done. Porzingis needs the freedom to do what he wants on the court like Embiid, KAT or Jokic, he's going to lag behind those guys because he always has to play second fiddle to some dude iso-ing away the shot clock. What Porzingis needs is one of those PGs in the draft that will live through using a pick and passes, like Smith or Ball. He needs another young player to grow with like Giannis has with Jabari, or Steph had with Klay.


Instead, they are going to waste some of his years like the Pelicans have done with Davis by trying to compete when the goal should be acquiring young talent.

With where the Knicks will probably pick the pg's available will be Fox and Nkitilina

 

[ogc163]

Top 5 picks for Fat Iverson?! GTFOH with that nonsense. The Knicks are not getting Love,B.G., or any of those Nets picks, ya really overrating this dudes value.

 

[Malta]

With where the Knicks will probably pick the pg's available will be Fox and Nkitilina

I think Ntilikina is going to jump up when the workouts happen.

 

[Frump]

I think Ntilikina is going to jump up when the workouts happen.

The only thing is so many teams have pg's and this draft is so pg heavy that some teams may have to pass on these guys or trade the picks

 

[Malta]

The only thing is so many teams have pg's and this draft is so pg heavy that some teams may have to pass on these guys or trade the picks

I agree, but I think Fox is more likely to be there, mainly because he can't shoot. They have Fox in the top 10 right now, but I just can't see a PG that can't shoot going over one that can.

 

[Frump]

I agree, but I think Fox is more likely to be there, mainly because he can't shoot. They have Fox in the top 10 right now, but I just can't see a PG that can't shoot going over one that can.

Yeah unless u have Wall speed if you're a pg who can't shoot it's tough to go high

I think a lot of lotto picks will be traded because of either teams not needing pg's or teams like the Pelicans and Wolves trying to win now and not add more young players but the Knicks don't have any assets to move up

 

[Illuminatos]

KP needs Melo to hide all his fukkin flaws that the fukkin glorified Ryan Anderson is.

KP needs to work on his game tremendously before he thinks of becoming a franchise player because Embiid, Towns, and Turner are so far ahead of him it is sad. No post game, can't score on obvious mismatches, and can't draw fouls, and hunts for block shots like an idiot.

So much he needs to work on before we just give him the franchise tag that everybody keeps calling him

Wow

No, he doesn't.


Please list all the current stars that needed some aging star around them to show them how it's done. Porzingis needs the freedom to do what he wants on the court like Embiid, KAT or Jokic, he's going to lag behind those guys because he always has to play second fiddle to some dude iso-ing away the shot clock. What Porzingis needs is one of those PGs in the draft that will live through using a pick and passes, like Smith or Ball. He needs another young player to grow with like Giannis has with Jabari, or Steph had with Klay.


Instead, they are going to waste some of his years like the Pelicans have done with Davis by trying to compete when the goal should be acquiring young talent.

Yes he does.

We need a player that's never won anything significant in his career and is washed up to help mentor Porzingis.

he is the franchise
glorified ryan anderson?
some of you nikkas need to get all the way off melos dikk
he's been in the league for a year and a half....the fact you're even critiquing kp as much as melo despite melo being in the league well over a decade longer than kp shows the amount of talent he has.
i'd rather all KPs flaws get highlighted to death until he adjusts without melo
he has the work ethic and dedication to get better.
how else does someone get better at handling double teams and drawing fouls than facing them repeatedly. you cant simulate that in practice.
i'm not sure the impact you want him to have. only big men to have massive impact as a true rookies were shaq, hakeem, duncan, wilt
but fukk it melo aint going no where ...we might be tanking with him anyways

Nah, Melo shooting us out of games and not playing defense is crucial to KP's development.

What these idiots don't get is that if KP really is the franchise player we think he is then he'll adjust and eventually improve his game. How is KP gonna learn to be the 1st option if he's playing 2nd fiddle to Melo? The fukk?

 

[Shogun]

Screamin A says he's as good as gone

 

[Trip]

Screamin A says he's as good as gone

Anyone who thinks he's getting traded doesn't understand his contract.

 

[Shogun]

Anyone who thinks he's getting traded doesn't understand his contract.

Never say never

 

[Trip]

Never say never

It's legit impossible breh.

 

[storyteller]

Not having a gang of veterans around him would make him more aggressive, there's a reason why teams purge their squads of older players when they get young stars and only look to add veterans later on to add stability after the young player has established themselves. If he were out there demanding the rock and taking shots from Melo, how do you think that would be received? He's a PnR type of player, that plays with a scoring PG & scoring wing, he gets the ball but it's not always in the best position and it's not like the Knicks make it easy for him, where are the cuts? Why not use him more as a passer, he seems to be a very good one but that's not how he's used. He's almost exclusively used as a Pick and Pop guy. Playing him at Center will probably improve his offense as there are less 5s that can check him, where as PF's are becoming more mobile.

He was isolating plenty early on. He can't operate in PnR because teams are literally just switching a guard onto him and accepting that he settles for the turn around. Until he's punishing the switch, no PG is gonna stop that, he needs to beat that mismatch. Teams have begun answering his elbow touches with double teams and he started to show improvement addressing it, but still a work in progress. I do like the idea of using him more as a passer and getting him more face-ups; but that's a scheme adjustment first and foremost. I'm all for dumping the vets to tank, but I just watched KP take a backseat to Jennings and Willy Hernangomez for no good reason. I'll keep blaming fatigue till he gets back and we see what he looks like fresh. I firmly believe that dude was doing more of everything you asked early on in the season and it tapered off as his legs went (and Rose's FGA's climbed).

Breh, you can't rely on the FA market anymore, the new CBA is going to limit player movement a lot. The only way the Knicks can get a good PG is via the draft, or a really smart trade for a young guy who is stuck on the bench behind someone.

We're both making a similar point. That the FA market isn't the answer.

 

[DPresidential]

One of the most beautiful and promising things I've ever seen is a promising KP work in the high post when he has time to work and a one on one.

One of the most clunky, clumsy and sad things I've ever seen is KP catching the ball in the post as a double team collapses on him.

Honorable sad mention: 'Sgust when I see Marcus Smart hold his own on defense while KP tries to post him up.

@storyteller articulated the point, perfectly.

I've also been part of the school of thought that Melo held KP. To hone my stance a little better, let me say KP NEEDS a dangerous offensive distraction on the court for him to be fully effective.

It doesn't have to be Melo but Melo has been the only outside or spot up shooting threat on KP's court.

Though I believe KP's potential is just only being scratched, I do feel hopeful that as we are clearly in the twilight of the Melo era, our prospective draft position, possible free agency, and developing role players will have the opportunity to provide KP with that no. 2 or that No. 1b player that will complement him by keeping the defense honest if the basketball gods through us another KP type bone.

Brings us to an exciting topic, actually - what does an excellently built team look like with a focus on KP?

I'd love to hear ya'll thoughts.

I'm thinking the best roster to work towards would be:

PG:
A pass first floor general w/ an outside shot that needs to be respected and atleast aggressive when he needs to drive. Does not need to be capable of carrying the scoring load, though. He needs to be the most mature and professional person on the court...Someone who takes any personality on the court and can pull them to the side on some, "Get in the fukking game and complain in the locker room, nikka!" type of shyt.

SG: A solid three and D guy. Doesn't need the ball in his hands and is excellent on the move, regarding cuts and rolls and able to find that spot for the sneaky corner three. (Actually, Courtney Lee is already that but our guard core should be defensive stalwarts through and through)

SF: A mobile and athletically gifted guy who can create his own shot. This should be either the alpha on the team or atleast the talented 1A option who shows effort on both sides of the court.

PF: If KP moves to the center position, then a mobile player that can take a mid range jumper, okay in the post, and agile enough to be sevricable on a mismatch on the perimeter after a PNR. His offense really doesn't need to be more versatile than an O'Quinn, honestly.

C: Hmm...I don't think KP should be playing PF after this year, honestly. If somehow he doesn't become a permanent big... Then an agile, defensive monster. Able to catch the highlight alley-oop and expected to get those put backs.

Anybody else? It's fun thinking about it.

 

[Carter G. Hoodson]

Knicks and Nuggets

Derrick Rose, Mindaugas Kuzminkas, Sasha Vujaic, Lance Thomas, Kyle O'Quinn (2) 2017 2nd round pick for Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Kenneth Faried, 2017 1st round pick via Memphis

Boston and Knicks

Carmelo Anthony for Jae Crowder, Jonas Jerekbo, Amir Johnson, Brooklyn's 1st round pick

Timberwolves and Knicks

Ricky Rubio, Nikalo Pekovic, rights to swap 2018 draft pick for Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee

Porzingis/Hernangomez /Johnson
Wilson Chandler/Faried/Jerekbo
Danilo Gallinari/Holiday
Crowder/Holiday/Baker
Rubio/Jennings

Probably could move Johnson and Jennings to contenders for a late pick plus they're expirings or just let them expire