Marvel’s new Iron Man is a 15-year-old M.I.T black girl Riri Williams aka Iron Man(African American)

[MartyMcFly]

I think the point is that some of us don't want new black superhero to become legacy characters from white iconic superheros

If they made a new black superhero with his own unique powers and abilities debuting on popular white super comics than okay

But this whole idea on the only way a black hero can be popular is to replace a already popular white superhero, in which that's kinda lame to me.

For me I don't like the idea of making new black characters to replace white characters as a right direction of diversity

I was hoping we get unique characters that are not copy cats of the original

Nah I get the point but I also get the reality. And that's not just for black characters but any new character in the big two who catches on is a legacy character. Comic fans are for the most part not open to change

 

[Birnin Zana]

I think the point is that some of us don't want new black superhero to become legacy characters from white iconic superheros

If they made a new black superhero with his own unique powers and abilities debuting on popular white super comics than okay

But this whole idea on the only way a black hero can be popular is to replace a already popular white superhero, in which that's kinda lame to me.

For me I don't like the idea of making new black characters to replace white characters as a right direction of diversity

I was hoping we get unique characters that are not copy cats of the original

All fair points, but we all need to keep it 100 about the comic book fan base in general.

The unfortunate truth is its very, very difficult for a new character to be established. Why? Because comic book fans are basically creatures of habit at this point. Outside of certain books, most comic book readers don't give a fukk about anything else, ESPECIALLY brand new characters who are trying to find their footing.

When was the last time a non-white male character was created from scratch, without going the legacy route, and actually sold well?

The two main one who seem to be getting on their own two feet and are pushing units are Miles Morales and Kamala Khan. Yet both came into the game using existing mantles.

Jane-Thor is selling units (less than Miles and Kamala usually, but not that far behind), but again, its in part due to the Thor affiliation.

And so on...

I mean, how many people would've given a damn about Miles like that if he didn't have the Spidey connection?

Or Kamala without the Ms. Marvel connection (although her situation is somewhat unique)?

Or Falcon without the Cap connection? And Falcon been around since 1969

Or Cho without the Hulk connection?

And so on.

Some may say "Marvel should push existing characters." Easier said than done, especially when the readership doesn't seem to care, regardless of the quality of the book.

War Machine had a book in 2009. Sales were ehhhhhhh at best. And dude has been around since 1980.

Storm finally had a book in 2014. After a somewhat promising start sales wise, the book tanked from #2 onward. Overall sales = And she's easily one of the most popular black characters in comics.

Nighthawk has a book out right now. First month sales = 34k

So when Marvel sees those numbers, of course they are going to go the legacy route. It worked for Miles and Kamala. Sam Wilson is getting the most amount of attention he has ever had in the comic book world. Same with Jane Foster and Cho.

In short, if you want Marvel to not do the legacy shyt no more....support brand new characters! Or else Marvel is simply gonna logically conclude that the quickest and perhaps the most effective way to make people care about new characters--while making a lot of money along the way--is for said new character to go the legacy route.

Money talks brehs. Money talks.

 

[MartyMcFly]

All fair points, but we all need to keep it 100 about the comic book fan base in general.

The unfortunate truth is its very, very difficult for a new character to be established. Why? Because comic book fans are basically creatures of habit at this point. Outside of certain books, most comic book readers don't give a fukk about anything else, ESPECIALLY brand new characters who are trying to find their footing.

When was the last time a non-white male character was created from scratch, without going the legacy route, and actually sold well?

The two main one who seem to be getting on their own two feet and are pushing units are Miles Morales and Kamala Khan. Yet both came into the game using existing mantles.

Jane-Thor is selling units (less than Miles and Kamala usually, but not that far behind), but again, its in part due to the Thor affiliation.

And so on...

I mean, how many people would've given a damn about Miles like that if he didn't have the Spidey connection?

Or Kamala without the Ms. Marvel connection (although her situation is somewhat unique)?

Or Falcon without the Cap connection? And Falcon been around since 1969

Or Cho without the Hulk connection?

And so on.

Some may say "Marvel should push existing characters." Easier said than done, especially when the readership doesn't seem to care, regardless of the quality of the book.

War Machine had a book in 2009. Sales were ehhhhhhh at best. And dude has been around since 1980.

Storm finally had a book in 2014. After a somewhat promising start sales wise, the book tanked from #2 onward. Overall sales = And she's easily one of the most popular black characters in comics.

Nighthawk has a book out right now. First month sales = 34k

So when Marvel sees those numbers, of course they are going to go the legacy route. It worked for Miles and Kamala. Sam Wilson is getting the most amount of attention he has ever had in the comic book world. Same with Jane Foster and Cho.

In short, if you want Marvel to not do the legacy shyt no more....support brand new characters! Or else is simply gonna logically conclude that the quickest and perhaps the most effective way to make people care about new characters--while making a lot of money along the way--is for said new character to go the legacy route.

Money talks brehs. Money talks.

My man with the knowledge drop.

Especially the part about creatures of habit and the part about the bottom line. The bottom line is and will always be king. This is the way they feel like they can bring attention to new characters by putting them in established books. And as he pointed out with ms marvel and miles and Thor, it works. Had they introduced either one of those characters in their own books not associated with those characters, more than likely it would've been crickets.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Let's be honest, if a random white woman replaced T'challa as black panther, nikkas would be heated.

BP is unique in which it would be extreeeeeeeemely difficult to explain why a non-black person, especially a non-wakandan, becomes the new BP and possibly the King/Queen of Wakanda. Wakanda is in Africa and it is generally xenophobic. That alone is a major buffer, narrative wise. The last time BP was replaced, it was by his sister, Shuri, who obviously was a Wakandan and a member of the royal family.

Not to mention, Marvel has already tried replacing T'Challa with a non-Wakandan biracial dude named Kasper Cole during the Priest run. Those sales were straight up . I doubt Marvel will ever try that again.

Meanwhile, the characters being replaced are located in the US and their race isn't directly associated with the mantles. Hence why Marvel can get away with it. As for Jane-Thor, it was a gender swap, not a race swap.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Kind of corny.....dont feel organic

 

[AquaCityBoy]

Let's be honest, if a random white woman replaced T'challa as black panther, nikkas would be heated.

 

[TMNT4000]

Nah I get the point but I also get the reality. And that's not just for black characters but any new character in the big two who catches on is a legacy character. Comic fans are for the most part not open to change

All fair points, but we all need to keep it 100 about the comic book fan base in general.

The unfortunate truth is its very, very difficult for a new character to be established. Why? Because comic book fans are basically creatures of habit at this point. Outside of certain books, most comic book readers don't give a fukk about anything else, ESPECIALLY brand new characters who are trying to find their footing.

When was the last time a non-white male character was created from scratch, without going the legacy route, and actually sold well?

The two main one who seem to be getting on their own two feet and are pushing units are Miles Morales and Kamala Khan. Yet both came into the game using existing mantles.

Jane-Thor is selling units (less than Miles and Kamala usually, but not that far behind), but again, its in part due to the Thor affiliation.

And so on...

I mean, how many people would've given a damn about Miles like that if he didn't have the Spidey connection?

Or Kamala without the Ms. Marvel connection (although her situation is somewhat unique)?

Or Falcon without the Cap connection? And Falcon been around since 1969

Or Cho without the Hulk connection?

And so on.

Some may say "Marvel should push existing characters." Easier said than done, especially when the readership doesn't seem to care, regardless of the quality of the book.

War Machine had a book in 2009. Sales were ehhhhhhh at best. And dude has been around since 1980.

Storm finally had a book in 2014. After a somewhat promising start sales wise, the book tanked from #2 onward. Overall sales = And she's easily one of the most popular black characters in comics.

Nighthawk has a book out right now. First month sales = 34k

So when Marvel sees those numbers, of course they are going to go the legacy route. It worked for Miles and Kamala. Sam Wilson is getting the most amount of attention he has ever had in the comic book world. Same with Jane Foster and Cho.

In short, if you want Marvel to not do the legacy shyt no more....support brand new characters! Or else is simply gonna logically conclude that the quickest and perhaps the most effective way to make people care about new characters--while making a lot of money along the way--is for said new character to go the legacy route.

Money talks brehs. Money talks.

Well that's the thing though, i fell like you can still make new characters but debut them in the more popular comics and give them connects with the already popular superhero without being copies.

Falcon is a good example of being part of Caps legacy but not a copy of him.

That's what we need more of and less replacing

I'll be piss if all future black heroes are exact copies of white heroes lol.

 

[Birnin Zana]

My man with the knowledge drop.

Especially the part about creatures of habit and the part about the bottom line. The bottom line is and will always be king. This is the way they feel like they can bring attention to new characters by putting them in established books. And as he pointed out with ms marvel and miles and Thor, it works. Had they introduced either one of those characters in their own books not associated with those characters, more than likely it would've been crickets.

Breh, without those mantles, Miles, Kamala, and others would either have a much tougher time pushing units or probably would've been sent to the bushes and be fridged.

Cho has been around for a bit now. Few people cared about him or paid much attention to him...till he became Hulk.

And for the record, I'm not a big fan of the legacy stuff. I big on each character being able to forge their own path and get their own adventures. But how can those books about the newly-created characters do that, if the readership won't even buy their shyt and give them the light of day, simply because they aren't _______ (insert character)?

How can Marvel bring "diversity" to its comic book line when it turns out the comic book readership, based on their buying habits, doesn't even seem to want to support such initiatives in the end?

The only non-white male, non-legacy book in Marvel that is doing well right now is Black Panther. It not only took DECADES for him to get there, it took a whoooole lot of luck. It's crazy to think about.

Mosiac, a brand new black inhuman that is described as an anti-hero, is coming out with his own book soon. I would not be shocked if it turns out that his book doesn't sell well in the end. It has happened many times before. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[TMNT4000]

Where's the irony? Is she a bedwench?

Yes she a swirler

 

[MartyMcFly]

Well that's the thing though, i fell like you can still make new characters but debut them in the more popular comics and give them connects with the already popular superhero without being copies.

Falcon is a good example of being part of Caps legacy but not a copy of him.

That's what we need more of and less replacing

I'll be piss if all future black heroes are exact copies of white heroes lol.

But they're not copies per say. Miles isn't a carbon copy of Peter. He's got his own personality, his own look, and his own style of fighting. His book doesn't feel like Peter's book. Jane doesn't feel like "He" Thor...when Sam took over as Cap, it didn't feel like Steve Rogers. They're making them their own characters who just so happen to be in a more popular book.

Sam caught on but not enough to carry his own book at the time, which @Realdealholy pointed out for a lot of these people. If the goal is to move product, then you need to put a character in a book that will move.

Breh, without those mantles, Miles, Kamala, and others would either have a much tougher time pushing units or probably would've been sent to the bushes and be fridged.

Cho has been around for a bit now. Few people cared about him or paid much attention to him...till he became Hulk.

And for the record, I'm not a big fan of the legacy stuff. I big on each character being able to forge their own path and get their own adventures. But how can those books about the newly-created characters do that, if the readership won't even buy their shyt and give them the light of day, simply because they aren't _______ (insert character)?

How can Marvel bring "diversity" to its comic book line when it turns out the comic book readership, based on their buying habits, doesn't even seem to want to support such initiatives in the end?

The only non-white male, non-legacy book in Marvel that is doing well right now is Black Panther. It it not only took DECADES for him to get there, it took a whoooole lot of luck. It's crazy to think about.

Mosiac, a brand new black inhuman that is described as an anti-hero, is coming out with his own book soon. I would not be shocked if it turns out that his book doesn't sell well in the end. It has happened many times before. I hope I'm wrong.

Exactly. They've tried it the other way and I'm not saying this is my ideal way to do it either, but fukk, do it. Do what you gotta do to bring new characters into the fold. If this is the only way your scared and superstitious audience will put invest, then meet them where they are.

 

[Brofato]

It's tangentially related to the topic but Tom Breevort has said for years, definitely since The Other arc for spider man, that they want to make more characters legacy characters. He talked about liking the way both barry allen and wally west are the flash and felt like Marvel needed more of that so what they're doing now has been a conscious decision in their offices for at least a decade

Which would possibly make sense if people weren't so vocal about how much they love the original versions of characters and want to keep them alive for 100 years.

Who am I to judge though, I've only read two and a half comic runs that I can actively remember.

I'm also of the mindset that characters in properties need to move on at some point.

 

[Jax]

man fukk equality in comics, i like my Iron Man as a middle aged, alcoholic, narcissist caucasian male...

Call me a c00n but I agree.

 

[TMNT4000]

But they're not copies per say. Miles isn't a carbon copy of Peter. He's got his own personality, his own look, and his own style of fighting. His book doesn't feel like Peter's book. Jane doesn't feel like "He" Thor...when Sam took over as Cap, it didn't feel like Steve Rogers. They're making them their own characters who just so happen to be in a more popular book.

Sam caught on but not enough to carry his own book at the time, which @Realdealholy pointed out for a lot of these people. If the goal is to move product, then you need to put a character in a book that will move.

I know they don't have the same personality and look, I was talking more of power-set and name that I consider copies.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Well that's the thing though, i fell like you can still make new characters but debut them in the more popular comics and give them connects with the already popular superhero without being copies.

Falcon is a good example of being part of Caps legacy but not a copy of him.

That's what we need more of and less replacing

I'll be piss if all future black heroes are exact copies of white heroes lol.

I agree, but people have to support them, or else we will be back here again, complaining about a new legacy character. Money talks brehs.

There's a lot of people complaining about Falcon being Cap, despite Falcon and Cap's long history.

 

[R=G]

Interesting and it's a top headline on my line of news. I don't like Bendis' writing though.