Making Melo a lifer and waving at Felton in Rikers: Knicks offseason thread

[JerseyFinest!]

How do you know that he came for his brand to be taken to another level? He could've came because he's from there. If it was all about that, why is there a possibility that he will leave? You're desperate for something to blame on the guy who has played at a higher level than any other Knick during his tenure and carried the team in the process. It's stupid. Just because you keep saying your demands are the best case scenario to win as a Knick, that doesn't make it true. Dolan has wasted 4 years where 'Melo could've won as a Knick. Who are you to tell him to be more patient? Be more patient, take less money; all these demands to a grown man.

Are you a Female? because you are debating with a lot of emotion. He's not from NY that just some cute lil story they added to the equation, he's from B-More. where do you see me placing blame on Melo? the basis of the convo was "Melo should opt in If he is serious about winning a ship as a KNICK" you keep glossing over that! How would he lose out on Money? you didn't even initially know he could opt-in to his contract. You're using words like Demand and desperate .I'm basing my opinions on what I feel helps the Knicks win a Ship not Melo....And I feel Melo gives us our best chance but if he leaves then

 

[Trip]

Please. Dolan ain't givin' no one “enough control” of anything of his. Input, I could see. Control, no. I doubt, very seriously, that he asked Dolan to keep D'Antoni all those years when the 1st thing he said upon arriving (the presser) is that he wanted to see the team defend and later praised Woodson's defensive schemes. 'Melo didn't want Billups moved. Like he's gonna sabotage his chances to win by controlling personnel. All those old hires last season was Grunwald allowing a lot of input from his very good friend Mike Woodson. Most of the personnel moves didn't even appear to come from players because how weak they've been. They seemed like players sayin', “I don't know, I guess, you're the expert” at the most and not “go after so and so”. I don't even see players giving 100% approval to anyone but Tyson and Kidd. Your reach game is desperate, tho.

What's your angle then? Melo's the victim?

 

[I.V.]

Which is why the contract is very important. You cannot bring up Jeremy Lin and how the Knicks would be 'this and that' with him, without bringing up his egregious contract

8 million expiring next season. :Bellywood:


That's nothing. Being forced to pay felton for the next two years is more detrimental. Everyone likes to bytch and hyperbolize Lin's deal, but he's making 8 mill next year, and then it would be coming off the books the same time as Stat and Tyson - it would be a windfall, actually.


But who cares at this point - everyone was excited to have felton, he was such a steal compared to Lin, and he was a WORSE player this year, than Lin. In the end, neither is probably the answer at the 1.

This year was a massive failure, what are we even arguing about at this point. We don't have the money to sign anything other than fringe free agents and low-risk-medium-reward players.

We have a draft pick next season, so it's in our best interest to just wear this upcoming season like champs, lost 60 games, and end up with a lotto pick.

Melo was granted input and control, CAA was handed the keys... and in the end, it didn't pan out. Woodson lost the team, old players got hurt, young players relapsed or regressed, and the season was a shytshow, with the lone bright spots being solid play from Hardaway, and potential usefulness of Cole/Jeremy.


I don't even know what this thread is still going on for right now. Wait till Melo makes his decision, we buy a pick, or summer league starts.

Melo deserved better than what this team did for him this season... but keeping him with a supermax deal is bad for the franchise, long term. Spend money where you'll see a return on your investment.

 

[23Barrettcity]

8 million expiring next season. :Bellywood:


That's nothing. Being forced to pay felton for the next two years is more detrimental. Everyone likes to bytch and hyperbolize Lin's deal, but he's making 8 mill next year, and then it would be coming off the books the same time as Stat and Tyson - it would be a windfall, actually.


But who cares at this point - everyone was excited to have felton, he was such a steal compared to Lin, and he was a WORSE player this year, than Lin. In the end, neither is probably the answer at the 1.

This year was a massive failure, what are we even arguing about at this point. We don't have the money to sign anything other than fringe free agents and low-risk-medium-reward players.

We have a draft pick next season, so it's in our best interest to just wear this upcoming season

Melo was granted input and control, CAA was handed the keys... and in the end, it didn't pan out. Woodson lost the team, old players got hurt, young players relapsed or regressed, and the season was a shytshow, with the lone bright spots being solid play from Hardaway, and potential usefulness of Cole/Jeremy.


I don't even know what this thread is still going on for right now. Wait till Melo makes his decision, we buy a pick, or summer league starts.

Melo deserved better than what this team did for him this season... but keeping him with a supermax deal is bad for the franchise, long term. Spend money where you'll see a return on your investment.

Wrong He's not making 8 mill he's counting against the cap that's for the rockets only ,since we are over the Cap we would have to pay 15 mil and he counts for 15' mil against our cap .by the way Felton played a big part In beating the celtics last year as opposed to Lin who's done nothing but lose his starting job . It's fine to pay melo the max if he's the centerpiece of the team ( if you don't think he's worth it that's a different issue ) melo earned his max contract and with the money coming off the books next year they can add people.

A draft pick is no guarantee of anything the cavs hit on one draft pick and then kyrie hasn't won shyt , Bennett is garbage and beal is good . Whether you like it or not the best bet is melo and adding help . We drafted Timmy late in the draft as with shump so we can make impact picks late in the draft . The east will be weak next year , Indy falling off already , Chicago can't stay healthy , nets are old so all this doom and gloom shyt is . Murray or Timmy might turn out to be able to adequately run a team or we some cheap stopgap or trade deadline pick up . You guys look at everything in a bubble

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

@ZemaPromos Don't argue with Trip. He hates Melo, and blames him for everything wrong with the Knicks.

And why are we still talking about Lin. He's been gone for 2 YEARS. Let it die already.

 

[23Barrettcity]

@ZemaPromos Don't argue with Trip. He hates Melo, and blames him for everything wrong with the Knicks.

And why are we still talking about Lin. He's been gone for 2 YEARS. Let it die already.

But yet he gives him no credit for anything .

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

But yet he gives him no credit for anything .

Exactly why I don't even debate with dude no more.

 

[Trip]

Exactly why I don't even debate with dude no more.

When you really think about it, we should have just brought Woodson back.

 

[Victim of Racism]

Are you a Female? because you are debating with a lot of emotion. He's not from NY that just some cute lil story they added to the equation, he's from B-More. where do you see me placing blame on Melo? the basis of the convo was "Melo should opt in If he is serious about winning a ship as a KNICK" you keep glossing over that! How would he lose out on Money? you didn't even initially know he could opt-in to his contract. You're using words like Demand and desperate .I'm basing my opinions on what I feel helps the Knicks win a Ship not Melo....And I feel Melo gives us our best chance but if he leaves then

I didn't know Cosby's confused face was emotion. Yes, I'm a woman. So, he wasn't born in the the Red Hook Borough of Brooklyn (having built a court or foundation there because of it) and raised in Baltimore? If not, how do you know? During an interview he said he loves when Nets fans chant “Broooklyn” because he's from there. You blamed him for Dolan trading away players. How is saying “just because you keep saying your demands are the best case scenario to win as a Knick, that doesn't make it true” an indication of me “glossing over” that issue? When I said “be more patient, take less money; all these demands to a grown man”, I was referring to your demands (be more patient) and the demands of other fans (take less money).

What's your angle then? Melo's the victim?

I don't have an angle. My stance is that 'Melo has no obligation to appease anyone's demands. I don't even know where you're getting the victim thing from. You're a desperate, reaching, troll hence your lack of rebuttal. That is all.

 

[I.V.]

Wrong He's not making 8 mill he's counting against the cap that's for the rockets only ,since we are over the Cap we would have to pay 15 mil and he counts for 15' mil against our cap

1) He's making 8 million. Period. 8 million against their cap.

2) Once you're over the cap, it doesn't make a difference how much he makes over the cap. So what if we had to pay him 15 million? Who cares if we have to pay him 30 million? It doesn't affect your cap situation, and it allows MORE - not less - flexibility in trade scenarios. A 15 Million expiring next year would be a boon, I didn't even bring that to the table, because people here don't understand how a cap works. And even if it means we're eating the penalties... we're not eating the penalties, that's James Dolan's money and it has zero effect on anything functional for the knicks.



.by the way Felton played a big part In beating the celtics last year as opposed to Lin who's done nothing but lose his starting job .

I see we're going back two seasons, now. Interesting

It's fine to pay melo the max if he's the centerpiece of the team

In a vacuum, sure. But he's been the centerpiece since he arrived... and how's that working? Building around a player who's on the backside of his prime years is bad business. But like you said, reasonable people can disagree whether he should be signed or not. But he's been the center of two franchises, and two franchises have struggled to put the pieces around him he'd need to succeed.

Doesn't mean it can't be done... simply means it's hard.

A draft pick is no guarantee of anything

Well, no. It's a guarantee of cheap talent. The level of talent is what's pliable.

the cavs hit on one draft pick and then kyrie hasn't won shyt , Bennett is garbage and beal is good .

Yes, but there were good players AFTER those busts. It's not like that was the depth of the talent pool available.

Whether you like it or not the best bet is melo and adding help .

Best bet for what? It's our best bet to have Melo. That's it. We had melo last season, and the team was a complete flop.

We drafted Timmy late in the draft as with shump

Shumpert was taken 17th. A mid-round pick. The knicks have no picks this year. None.

so we can make impact picks late in the draft .

Impact? You're talking about rotation players. Fringe starters with major flaws in their games. Shumpert should have been in the d-league this year, and that's not hyperbole - it would have been better for his confidence.

The east will be weak next year , Indy falling off already , Chicago can't stay healthy , nets are old

And yet, they were ALL better than the Knicks this year. Next year Chicago will still be the better team, and they might have Derrick Rose - shyt they might have Carmelo Anthony.

Murray or Timmy might turn out to be able to adequately run a team

First... it's "Murry". Second, Tim Hardaway isn't a point guard. fukk you mean "run a team"?

He averaged .8 assists this season.


or we some cheap stopgap or trade deadline pick up . You guys look at everything in a bubble

A bubble?

My man, you're out here talking about Tim Hardaway running a team, and us finding steals in the draft - AS IF WE HAVE A GRIP OF PICKS.

"We can just get some stopgap"







Do you think anybody in the Spurs organization ever says some shyt like that?



The problem with the fanbase on this board is NOT that people "are in a bubble" (which doesn't make much sense, no matter how you apply it) The problem is that there are a few posters that would prefer to ignore history and trends for hope, dreams and rainbows.









Tim Hardaway running a team.... Don't even disrespect yourself like that, young podrick. You're better than that. :tyrionWTF:

 

[The War Report]

Who suggested that Tim should run the team?

When has dude ever set up a teammate? The first impulse he gets when they pass him the ball is to shoot, no matter the circumstances. Dude has a long, long ways to go to become a starting caliber two guard in this league.

 

[I.V.]

Listen, I would love to keep melo, and try to have :knickphil: build a team around him... if that's what he wants to do.

Personally - as I've stated - I don't think it's a good investment to lay the supermax on him, because we'll be UNDER the cap soon, at which point... you want MORE options, not less.

But am I convinced that I'd rather have Kevin Love for the max than Melo for the max? No. I don't know, to be honest. I also don't have control over it...

Phil does. :ohlawdfists:

 

[23Barrettcity]

A bubble?

My man, you're out here talking about Tim Hardaway running a team, and us finding steals in the draft - AS IF WE HAVE A GRIP OF PICKS.

"We can just get some stopgap"







Do you think anybody in the Spurs organization ever says some shyt like that?



The problem with the fanbase on this board is NOT that people "are in a bubble" (which doesn't make much sense, no matter how you apply it) The problem is that there are a few posters that would prefer to ignore history and trends for hope, dreams and rainbows.









Tim Hardaway running a team.... Don't even disrespect yourself like that, young podrick. You're better than that. :tyrionWTF:

So we don't have a bunch of athletic Pgs in the league who's first instinct is to score but have been successful ??? Your in a bubble I'm being realistic the east is weak as hell and looks to be getting weaker we came easily be a playoff team . We don't need a cp3 to win we need a more athletic /younger prigioni type guard or a veteran who's not shot and we'd be ok . You also ignore the fact I said Murray should get a chance not just hardaway also who I been a proponent for all season. Then with the cap space we try and reload in 2015. And the spurs are the spurs but I know Phil has more rings than the spurs doesn't he ? We need good coaching and a good front office , I'll let Phil,cook first before I'm writing off next year in a weak ass east

 

[Trip]

So we don't have a bunch of athletic Pgs in the league who's first instinct is to score but have been successful ??? Your in a bubble I'm being realistic the east is weak as hell and looks to be getting weaker we came easily be a playoff team . We don't need a cp3 to win we need a more athletic /younger prigioni type guard or a veteran who's not shot and we'd be ok . You also ignore the fact I said Murray should get a chance not just hardaway also who I been a proponent for all season. Then with the cap space we try and reload in 2015. And the spurs are the spurs but I know Phil has more rings than the spurs doesn't he ? We need good coaching and a good front office , I'll let Phil,cook first before I'm writing off next year in a weak ass east

It's also entirely plausible that the Knicks could win games next year in the weak ass East, without Carmelo.

 

[I.V.]

So we don't have a bunch of athletic Pgs in the league who's first instinct is to score but have been successful ???

We? As in the Knicks? No. We haven't successfully converted an obvious shooting guard to a point guard in our modern history.

Your in a bubble I'm being realistic

Well... you suggested Hardaway as a point guard... so, I'll be generous and say the jury is still out.


the east is weak as hell and looks to be getting weaker we came easily be a playoff team .

I suppose. But I don't think "being a playoff team" is a good goal. Actually, I think it's a terrible goal.


We don't need a cp3 to win we need a more athletic /younger prigioni type guard or a veteran who's not shot and we'd be ok .

Again, I don't think "being ok" is the goal, is it?

You also ignore the fact I said Murray should get a chance not just hardaway also who I been a proponent for all season.

I like MURRY as much as the next man, but he's a fringe rotation player right now. There is zero proof that he can be the guy, nothing in his history to prove he could be an everyday starting NBA point.

Then with the cap space we try and reload in 2015.

I like this. Assuming the star talent is still available - and we have the ASSETS necessary to lure them OR trade for them. That's how you "load up" with assets to trade, or a reason to sign.


And the spurs are the spurs but I know Phil has more rings than the spurs doesn't he ? We need good coaching and a good front office , I'll let Phil,cook first before I'm writing off next year in a weak ass east

Your focus on "the weak ass east" is troubling, because it's judging success relative to a crappy conference. I want this team to be set on a better path, with better decision makers, and a archetype from which to draw prolonged success. That's why I can't really fukk with your calls for stopgap point guards and finding middling talent from used-up veterans.