Chill Nap,
There is no beef with respect to debate about tanking. We all just disagree. This site would be wack without disagreement. Everything else not bolding is the gist of it. And he wasn't even funny or witty about it, lol
Making Melo a lifer and waving at Felton in Rikers: Knicks offseason thread
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Chill Nap,
There is no beef with respect to debate about tanking. We all just disagree. This site would be wack without disagreement. Everything else not bolding is the gist of it. And he wasn't even funny or witty about it, lol
Actually.... I work in television.
Cheesy one-liners, daily double?
It started when I said this season is basically a lost one, waiting for Stat's deal (and Barg's deal) to expire. And that the knicks would be better off if they lost. I don't want to watch a crappy team (though I've been forced-to for the better part of the last 15 years) but the knicks would be better served with a higher pick to combine that with Melo and what they have now... and then see what is available in free agency.
That's it, this team isn't great. I'd like to see them put the system in place, and let the young guys play and be coached. If Melo, along with Calderon's shooting and some young wings is enough to get the playoffs... cool. But that kind of "get the 7 or 8 seed and HOPE" strategy is what we made fun of Hawks fans for, for years. Right? Just... average-ness.
I don't think tanking is always the strategy... but for this season? It would be beneficial. I don't expect them to tank. I don't think anybody in the office WANTS to tank, but it would be the quickest way to add cheap talent to next year's roster, and next year is the year we've had our eyes on since we realized Amar'e was never making it back.
The knicks need more talent. Period. This team - as constructed - is alright. It's ok. Good... at best. The off season will give them a shot at free agents, but a high draft pick would be a boon... PLUS you could use it in a trade, if need be to acquire the proven veteran talent that you want, if - like this thread indicates - you no longer trust the draft/phil. I see people talking about the expiring deals of STAT/Bargs... but what you have to remember is when you trade away that deal, you usually have to bring back deals at the same value. Which means you're taking on longer-term contracts for those guys. That saps flexibility for this off season. That's why expiring deals have devalued over the last few years... not because the idea of cap space is LESS appealing tot he market... but because the teams that HAVE the expiring see less and less value in taking back 2-3 year deals in their place. Trading the expiring of a lower talent for 3 years of medium talent is not as appetizing as it used to be.
It's the same principle that has caused the price of buying a pick in the late first/early second round to explode over the last five years.
Which is why it was impressive to see :PhilFinger: get three of them.
nomoreneveragain
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@I.V.
I think you underestimate the results when you put a legitimate system around Carmelo Anthony. This guy has been on 50 Win teams for a majority of his career. He is a top 5 player in this league.
Lets be honest, Woodson doesn't know jack shyt about B-Ball and Kidd was the brains behind the 54 W team. I don't think it's too farfetched to think Fish/Phil can turn the Knicks into a 50+ Win team again. I believe the Triangle is going to Maximize Carmelo's Strengths, Hide the deficiencies of a player like Shumpert (think Trevor Ariza going from the Lakers to the Rockets the 1st time).
50 Wins probably means 2nd round fodder but I'd take that experience & the development of the younger guys over tanking.
The best way to develop ball players is by winning, it's better to gauge progress as well. I have no idea the type of player Michael Carter Williams is going to turn out regardless of his ROY because of how bad the 76ers were.
I doubt the Knicks will be a team that treads water this season.
I think you underestimate the results when you put a legitimate system around Carmelo Anthony. This guy has been on 50 Win teams for a majority of his career. He is a top 5 player in this league.
Lets be honest, Woodson doesn't know jack shyt about B-Ball and Kidd was the brains behind the 54 W team. I don't think it's too farfetched to think Fish/Phil can turn the Knicks into a 50+ Win team again. I believe the Triangle is going to Maximize Carmelo's Strengths, Hide the deficiencies of a player like Shumpert (think Trevor Ariza going from the Lakers to the Rockets the 1st time).
50 Wins probably means 2nd round fodder but I'd take that experience & the development of the younger guys over tanking.
The best way to develop ball players is by winning, it's better to gauge progress as well. I have no idea the type of player Michael Carter Williams is going to turn out regardless of his ROY because of how bad the 76ers were.
I doubt the Knicks will be a team that treads water this season.
I see where you're coming from... but you also have to remember... who are the knicks trying to develop right now? Shumpert? Cleanthony Early? They don't even have enough young talent right now to make the argument that "winning would be better for them"... Shumpert has been on two playoff teams and seems to be regressing. My point is, they need more young cheap talent worthy of development, and use that to bolster next year's roster, because this year's is only ok.
That being said... if JR went back to 2012 form... paired with Calderon's shooting... that's probably enough to get this team into the playoffs. Which is cool... but is it what's best for the team, long-term? I don't think so.
The knicks made a push late in the season to make the playoffs last year. They didn't deserve to make the playoffs, they were a crappy team that lost a lot of winnable games. Right? But they strung a few together late and made a push. Now, if they'd had their pick, and they shut it down when they were out of contention... we'd have Payne or LaVine James young or Saric right now... Not instant impact stars.... but guys worthy of bringing along. And guys that could be real useful pieces around Melo... especially as he continues to get older on this new deal.
I guess, I'd rather be working toward a championship than working toward the second round. But they are both strategies.
This is why a lot of us don't like you though , cause a lot of us been saying this is the FO strategy and you kept harping on tanking and how beneficial YOU think it would be , which would be fine but you started belittling others who disagreed with you . You've been arguing your OPINION for pages and acting like it's gospel . I've had my arguments with @Trip but in the end he can have civil discussions with people you displayed a inability to do that . @SprinceC he's in other Knicks related threads shytting on Knicks fans as stupidActually.... I work in television.
Cheesy one-liners, daily double?
It started when I said this season is basically a lost one, waiting for Stat's deal (and Barg's deal) to expire. And that the knicks would be better off if they lost. I don't want to watch a crappy team (though I've been forced-to for the better part of the last 15 years) but the knicks would be better served with a higher pick to combine that with Melo and what they have now... and then see what is available in free agency.
That's it, this team isn't great. I'd like to see them put the system in place, and let the young guys play and be coached. If Melo, along with Calderon's shooting and some young wings is enough to get the playoffs... cool. But that kind of "get the 7 or 8 seed and HOPE" strategy is what we made fun of Hawks fans for, for years. Right? Just... average-ness.
I don't think tanking is always the strategy... but for this season? It would be beneficial. I don't expect them to tank. I don't think anybody in the office WANTS to tank, but it would be the quickest way to add cheap talent to next year's roster, and next year is the year we've had our eyes on since we realized Amar'e was never making it back.
The knicks need more talent. Period. This team - as constructed - is alright. It's ok. Good... at best. The off season will give them a shot at free agents, but a high draft pick would be a boon... PLUS you could use it in a trade, if need be to acquire the proven veteran talent that you want, if - like this thread indicates - you no longer trust the draft/phil. I see people talking about the expiring deals of STAT/Bargs... but what you have to remember is when you trade away that deal, you usually have to bring back deals at the same value. Which means you're taking on longer-term contracts for those guys. That saps flexibility for this off season. That's why expiring deals have devalued over the last few years... not because the idea of cap space is LESS appealing tot he market... but because the teams that HAVE the expiring see less and less value in taking back 2-3 year deals in their place. Trading the expiring of a lower talent for 3 years of medium talent is not as appetizing as it used to be.
It's the same principle that has caused the price of buying a pick in the late first/early second round to explode over the last five years.
Which is why it was impressive to see :PhilFinger: get three of them.
he's been in this thread shytting on people for spelling mistakes or personnel mistakes etc when I've seen him make several mistakes that I brought up to him.. @I.V. You could've said what you said in the bolded and kept it moving everything else was 
You just can't help yourself can you ??? Are you this much of a jerk in real life ? We all want to win a championship !!! Some of us think we can use this year to work on developing thjr , shump , early and implementing the triangle system is a good start towards developing a winning culture that can then possibly lead to being contenders once we add some more pieces in the off season . No one is saying fukk it I don't want a ring we want the second round !!!! Yet you keep sayin that as if we are making that point .
I don't agree breh.
Shump -Yes, he is older, but he still has some room to develop & we need to encourage confident in him by getting him into a consistent career groove
Cleanthony Early - It is already the opinion of a lot of people around the league that he may not be a future star, but he is definitely ready to contribute to a team. Him being developing into a good role playing backup to Melo should be a priority for us this season.
Timmy The Harder Way - He , more than any other young player on our squad, needs to learn how to play efficient ball on a winning team. Why? Just imagine Timmy on the 76ers... He'd average 18 shots & 1 assist. He needs to learn how to not only be an offensive spark, but to to be an (atleast) average facilitator. Also, he needs to develop tried & true defense tactics (NO crossing feet & staying in front of your man, knowing where your help defense is). Timmy will not learn that if we were to go into "let's play for a draft pick" mode.
Shane Larkin - He is going to be a career situational player. He'll probably never start an NBA team. He needs to learn how to hone his skills to be as effective as he can at the right times. Those right times can only be known...if we are talking about a team who is atleast playing w/ some pressure, whether it be to stay at .500, to make that final playoff spot...or, dare I say it, to win a playoff series.
Quincy Acy - He's only 23 years old & has never been on a team that made any noise. He is another, "perfect for a certain situation" kind of player. We need to give him those opportunities where he can learn & know how to contribute on a good team going forward in his career.
How many young players do you have to have to "have enough to make the argument that winning would be better for them"? And honestly, I think that's the point though, right? When do you ever expect a team with a roster filled w/ a plethora of young players, to win? I think we have a good sample size that we can concentrate on and develop. All I'm saying is, the argument can be had.
Why not breh? I think we all can agree, the faster we can get J.R Smith shipped to a Mexican Cartel in exchange for a sombrero & 3 poor hostages, we'll pack his bags... If he plays Circa late 2012 JR, he value on the trade market goes up & we might be able to make a move in the offseason after his contribution on a winning team.
This I absolutely agree w/. The key to what you said that strikes me though, "when they were out of contention". If near the end of the season, things really start looking bleak & our players have been actually working to try to win, but can't...I agree, start scaling back on Melo's minutes & pressure...let him ride out the season & give our youth a lot of minutes. That way, at the end of the year review, people can say, they put effort in, our arsenal was not good enough to win, but they tried, gave the fans a show & are now in position to get an 8 - 16 range draft pick.
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Brehs...Not just the title...
But everything predicted by @Hawaiian Punch in that first post happened.
Breh... be careful w/ that
Well I always said if I had superpowers I would play the villan. I'm gonna have
on deck heavy this season. Let's see how well it works against other teams star players
Let's get this disclaimer out real quick... we are #KnickFam so we can disagree without "feeling some type of way"
I still disagree w/ you.
Think about Woody's rotatiosn and how the winning demeanor of the team was knocked out early.
Imagine Timmy & Murry on the 2012-2013 team coming off the bench. Look what having a winning atmosphere did for Chris Copeland. THJR would have possibly been in the running for Rookie of the year, if he was in Chris Copeland's place in the 2012-2013 season.
Keep Murry, let him get clean up time on a winning team, and he'll develop.
Felton SHOULD NOT be on this team even as a 3rd string. Package him w/ Chandler, J.R or Bargnani.
Also... Ron Artest should be resigned.
I wasn't too bad either.@Hawaiian Punch
I think they should institute a preserve-melo policy from the jump, if they can. Monitor his minutes so he doesn't tire down the stretch like he has in the past. We're invested now, you have to protect the asset. I know 30 isn't old... but 34-35 WILL be. If you can keep him in the 30-33 minute range... that adds up.
A Nicca that mocks spelling mistakes on a message Board talking about whiningYou whine a lot.
figured you couldn't refute my points about you dr Naismith
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NewNewYork
@I.V. I don't think Shumpert will ever be a competent starter. Dude can't dribble and chew gum at the same time. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't finish at the rim, and can't even use his athleticism properly. The ACL tear sapped his lateral movement when it comes to his on ball defense; he can be overly aggressive on defense, which leads to stupid ass fouls. He makes Tony Allen look like James Harden on offense. I think he's a better personality/rapper than ball player. Just my two cents. :drunkjr:
Oh, and you look like you're fighting off a zombie horde on some Left 4 Dead shyt. :shaqlols:
Oh, and you look like you're fighting off a zombie horde on some Left 4 Dead shyt. :shaqlols:
Look at you using the word refute correctly!
Well, he's proven that he can spot-up shoot. And I'm of the firm belief that any major knee surgery is a 18 month recover and rehab. At least. I think fans see Peterson come back strong in 8 months and think that's how it's supposed to be. I'm willing to see what shumpert looks like this year with fish putting in a new system and phil hitting him with them good voodoo vibes.
I really want to see Larkin in action, and I'd like to see if Hardaway's game has advanced... plus you know Cleanthony is going to bang on a few people.
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